ELECTRIC BILL

[needzzzzs]

Our electric bill was $500 last month (in Western North Carolina, where it has not been very cold yet this winter).

Turns out the problem was our newly installed heating/cooling system -- seals weren't tight and the gas (used to be Freon, I can't remember what they've substituted) had leaked out, causing our heat pump to run on auxiliary power, which chewed up the electricity. We've gotten the problem fixed now.

So, make sure your heating/cooling system is working properly. Normally the CPAP machines don't draw all that much power, as others have said.

Debbie

[chunkyfrog]

Our electricity is tiered with 'excess' at a higher rate,
but still about 30% or so LESS per kilowatt-hour in winter than in summer;
which encourages electric heating.

[tgzlavistane]

Obama did say that your electric bill would “necessarily skyrocket” under his cpap-and-trade bill.

[rlyndecker]

Thank you all. I figured it wouldn't go up that much with CPAP. As soon as I can get the detailed bill online (should have been today because it's billed through 12/30th & it has the amount due already!) I will analyze it. I ALWAYS have trouble with PG&E. I am in N. California and I have had a SMART meter for over a year now. My bill did jump A LOT that month, I had them come out, they came when I wasn't even home, left me a note saying my smart meter worked fine & was accurate. I HATE PG&E. I will probably have to fight with them again, I didn't realize they estimated...Now that you mention it I did see a PG&E truck here last week, maybe they were reading my meter but I thought with the SMART meter it was done automatically now. Again I HATE PG&E!

[chunkyfrog]

In Lincoln, our electric service is a public utility--not a private business.
They are answerable to the local government and not intended to do any better than break even.
It saddens me to see when a power company is privately owned--service goes down while prices go up. Sad.

[Slinky]

Oxygen concentrators can add as much as $30 to $40 a month to your electricity bill. The newer ones are a little more energy efficient - but not a whole lot.

[ameriken]

Ouch.

[jmcd]

I was talking to my sister about my cpap therapy and she told me a co-worker of hers had trouble paying her electric bill and had her service suspended. Since cpap is a medical device, her service had to be re-connected. I assume she worked out something with the electric company and possibly got reduced billing.
Has anyone heard of this? Do electric companies give reduced rates for required medical devices?

I'm in Arizona and SRP (my electric company) had a medical discount program that gave me a $17/mo discount on my bill. The only thing I had to do to qualify was have my doctor fill out and fax a form to them. This also put me on a priority list when there were power outages. Last month SRP notified me that they removed CPAPs from the discount list because the current generation of machines are so efficient. They still consider them a medical device and a priority need in an outage situation but the discount will be gone starting next year (2013). However, being on the program doesn't mean that the service can't be stopped for non payment. I believe there are program for people who qualify (low income) but I think the limits are very, very low. I never looked into that because I make a very comfortable living.

[SMenasco]

I'll probably get bashed for my opinions, but just cannot ignore some of the comments made. Regarding cpap use of electricity, with changes in weather and varied living habits, it's doubtful that you would even see the difference in electrical use by adding a cpap. The only thing that would minutely make a difference is the humidifier, and it will be negligible, in that the heater will cycle off and on based on the humidity setting. The turbine would probably use less than a small light bulb.

The following is only my opinion and just some food for thought for some that hate and bash utilities. Electric and natural gas utilities are mostly responsible for our jobs, wealth, technology and our fantastic standard of living, compared to the rest of the world. Most of the hate comments come from the fact that we do not teach business operations, free enterprise, economics in general, or the profit-based economic system of our republic, in our public schools. Most of it is from a huge misconception and lack of understanding how the utility business works, both public and private, including water, natural gas and electric service. Almost all utilities operate on the same basis. Investor-owned utilities answer to their board of directors. Prices are reviewed and set by the state utility commissions. Governmental utilities, such as public power districts, electric cooperatives and municipally-owned systems also answer to a board. However, the difference is that most public entities pay no taxes or a fee in lieu of all taxes and are generally free to raise rates when their costs exceed their income, without any outside approval. There are a few exceptions, but very few. Investor-owned utilities must prove to their public utility commission by exposing their books to public inspection, the need to increase rates to meet their operational needs and earn a reasonable rate of return for investors, stock and bond holders, which is the cost of financing, the payment of interest on bonds and dividends on stock. Some people cry for competition, stating that two or more utilities serving the same city would reduce prices. If both utilities had lines and poles in the same alleys and streets, it becomes a mess, with duplication of facilities. Also, the investment would be the same for each utility, in that each one would need the same investment in plant, equipment, substations, lines and poles, required as before the competition arrived, in that they must be able to serve 100% of the entire customer base at any given time. Prices would eventually wind up the same, as long as each utility is operating on the same economic structure, such as fuel, taxes, labor costs, etc. If one lowers the price and gains all the customers, the other goes out of business and we're back to square one. Monopolies are not all bad. State and local governments were pretty smart in the late 1800s and early 1900s when this all came about. We had duplication and chaos in many communities. Accountability and rules were established. Early regulators saw the logic in regulated monopolities. Utilities accepted operational oversight, price and rate regulation to stay the "only one in town." Utilities, both public and private, when factoring in the cost of power plants, transmission lines and distribution systems, cannot charge enough for the product to even slightly cover their cost, due to the tremendous investment to buy power plants, build lines and deliver the product. The cost for a utility to serve your 100 watt light bulb, when you choose to flip the switch, runs well over $100, depending on the type of power plant. Rates are structured to collect money to cover operaing the system, not buy the stuff to make and deliver it. Buying plants and equipment comes from financing, even with public power. Long term bonds are sold, which are never paid back. Only the interest is paid. When the bonds come due, new bonds are issued at the prevailing interest rates; a sophisticated Ponzi scheme? Similar. Proceeds from the sale of new bonds are used to pay back the principal of the original bonds. Efficiencies of investor-owned and public power groups are similar, with some exceptions, as most people really care about the work they do and are responsible to some base of power.

When it comes to metering, several utilities do in fact estimate readings, due to inaccessibility of the yard, dogs, weather, etc. I do not support estimates. In my opinion, every effort should be made to accurately read the meter each billing cycle. Absent high estimates, meters do not speed up when they go bad. They tend to stop altogether, or slow down due to bearing friction. When someone experiences an increase in use with a new replacement meter, it's generally due to the old, defective meter that was replaced. Meters are driven by the amount of electricity flowing through them, controlled only by the customer turning on and off appliances. Smart meters are extremely accurate, and also produce information to the utility regarding the patterns of when you use power. Electronic meter reading will remove errors created by physically reading the meter.

Reduced pricing for medical equipment is fine. Credits are fine. The cost of these benefits are being borne by the rest of the customers, not by the utility.

This opinion is worth what you paid for it.

[feeling_better]

billbolton has given above an excellent guide line for estimating your energy consumption; the 150w he assume may be on the high end... Just for reference, I measured the total power use of my Respironics M1 Auto at 9.5cm pressure with setting 2 for Humidifier. The power varies between about 20W and 30 (the latter when the heater comes on). Even at the 150W high unlikely end, at California rates, you would pay about $3 or so from month (most likely less than $1), which almost nobody would be able to measure when cpap therapy starts, let alone notice.

So most likely, as others pointed out, you might have started using your winter heater, or got a new PGE smart meter (many of those seems to be inadvertently or by design is being programmed to show a very high reading, contrary to PGE denying this all other things they have denied in the past, but has proven to be disingenuous). BTW, I believe the new smart meters speed can changed remotely from the central office, and since this is possible, if they do this, it would be at night when the regulators and the weights and measure enforces (who make sure when you buy a gallon of gas it it close to that qty) are known to be not watching

[chunkyfrog]

Just looking at the watts consumed,it looks like most TV's use more juice than the average cpap;
but an O2 concentrator burns more than a refrigerator.

[woodenbuick]

Agree with the others, I think the CPAP was barely a blip on the bill. I'm a little more concerned about the O2 concentrator that kinda sounds like a machine that would use a bunch.

I have not noticed a noticeable change in my electric bill since I started to use the concentrator full time. Maybe 10 bucks a month but that could be due to other usage too.

[SMenasco]

feeling_better, I don't know much about PG&E, except what was portrayed in the movie Erin Brockevich. I think the statement that some employee would electronically increase the reading of a smart meter is pure conspiracy theory and a grossly unfair statement, since you have branded someone a dishonest thief and they're not even able to defend themselves. If this did occur, it would be a criminal act, not just civil. And that's not even considering the bad things that would happen if the utility commission determined this was actually the case. If the PG&E employee in charge of this program became aware of this outlandish accusation, you might very well be in for a trip to your attorney's office. I think it's just amazing, that you could suggest something like this with absolutely no proof. Surely you don't think that this happens. It's the most cynical thing I've heard today.









-

[Kairosgrammy]

I know this will sound bad but especially if you live in California, do you remember how much your electricity bill went up after you started using the CPAP on a regular basis? I can't "see" my bill yet but it tells me the amount due. The amount due is $180 MORE than last month. The only real difference is the last month I have used the CPAP on a regular basis vs. I didn't have it very long last month.

I just want to know if that's somewhat normal, normal or totally outrageous (which is my guess).

THANK YOU!

My bill really didn't change. I've been using cpap regularly for about 7 years and when my brother was alive, he used a bipap and oxygen machine and after he passed, I did notice electric bill going down but not that much and a lot of that could be accounted for by less use of ac etc.

[rlyndecker]

Well PG&E STILL doesn't have my bill to view online but I seriously think it's what someone said- they had been estimating (last months bills was about what I expected but about 2-3 months ago it was LOWER by about $25-$50 than I expected) and then someone came out & read the meter recently. I did fill out the PG&E paperwork for medical baseline so we'll see if that helps. I will be analyzing the bill & comparing it to last years at this time when PG&E gets it up. I just find it strange that it jumped THAT high, I keep the thermostat REALLY low still during the day even though I am off school (well low for me...Normally it's at 68 when I am home, right now through today, it's been about 64-65 at the highest) Oh well. I'll just have to keep trying to figure out what's going on.

Thanks for all the opinions/advice!