Changed to FFM.... Disaster :(

[BrianR4743]

I've been on CPAP for 2 years this month, and have stuck to it 100%. Using nasal pillows, I had my AHI down to 2 or less consistently, but had to tape, chinstrap, etc... due to being a mouthbreather. I felt that I could finally tolerate a FFM, and switched yesterday, finding that the Quattro FX had made some changes and was very comfortable.

I changed the mask settings on my machine, and didn't have much problem falling asleep.This morning I felt horrible. Last nights leaks were zero, but my AHI shot up to 12.8, With an AI of 2.2. In addition, my sweetheart told me that I was snoring in my mask, and my mouth felt as dry as the desert.

Not the result I was expecting at all. Anyone have suggestions? I'd like to stick with it, but not with these sorts of results.

Thanks!

[imsleepynomore]

know how you feel I switched to a full face mask last week thought I would like it at first but my hpo/apo jumped up from .6 up to 2.9 waking up multiple times during night ,tired in daytime, last night couldn't get good seal switched back to nasel mask slept great dreams again back to DME with mask as was a trial. Wish I had positive help for you will watch this thread for any advice as well

[NotSleepingBeauty]

It sounds like you are probably still breathing through your mouth, so you would still need the tape/chin strap to use the FFM, and what's the point of FFM?

I am switching from FFM to nasal tonight. I hope I can keep my mouth shut!

[RandyJ]

I've been on CPAP for 2 years this month, and have stuck to it 100%. Using nasal pillows, I had my AHI down to 2 or less consistently, but had to tape, chinstrap, etc... due to being a mouthbreather. I felt that I could finally tolerate a FFM, and switched yesterday, finding that the Quattro FX had made some changes and was very comfortable.

I changed the mask settings on my machine, and didn't have much problem falling asleep.This morning I felt horrible. Last nights leaks were zero, but my AHI shot up to 12.8, With an AI of 2.2. In addition, my sweetheart told me that I was snoring in my mask, and my mouth felt as dry as the desert.

Not the result I was expecting at all. Anyone have suggestions? I'd like to stick with it, but not with these sorts of results.

Thanks!

Some people (I am one) require more pressure when using a full face mask. You only have one night of data so far, however. If you get a few more nights where AHI is consistently high with full face mask, I would consider bumping up pressure (as long as you are not already having a lot of centrals). With nasal mask I use 14 cm pressure, but with full face I require 16 cm to get the job done.

Many will tell you that the mask shouldn't matter, but when discussing this recently with my doctor, he conceded that with a nasal mask all the air and pressure is going through one airway, with a full face mask it is going through 2 airways and for that reason can be less effective (at the same pressure) at preventing certain OAs.

Good luck.

[RandyJ]

I am switching from FFM to nasal tonight. I hope I can keep my mouth shut!

I did the same a few months ago, thought I would need tape, chinstrap etc and instead found that I kept my mouth shut with no problem on my own. Good luck!!

[BrianR4743]

It sounds like you are probably still breathing through your mouth, so you would still need the tape/chin strap to use the FFM, and what's the point of FFM?

I am switching from FFM to nasal tonight. I hope I can keep my mouth shut!

I though the benefit for the FFM -vs- the nasal pillows was that it worked better for mouthbreathers. Not the case? I'll give it a week or so, but if I start snoring again, I'll have lumps on my head.

Just loaded my data card into ResScan program. Loads of leaks, which I'm sure contributed to the problem. Time for an Anti-Leak strap, I guess.

[n wilson]

Brian
A full face mask allows you to breath through your mouth, you don't need to tape. I have a quattro and a hybrid (both ffm) and my ahi is always the same, whichever mask I use. (0.0 to 0.3) You need to get the ffm dialed in a bit better, I'm sure the leaks had a lot to do with your raised ahi. The quattro and quattro fx do not need to be tightened down as they are designed to float on your face with a cushion of air. Perhaps a homemade mask liner will help out with the leaks, I always use a liner. As to using a leak strap, why don't you just use a shoe lace or such to see if it works before you go buy one.....just make sure you are not covering up you exhale ports.
Good luck
Nan

[BrianR4743]

Brian
A full face mask allows you to breath through your mouth, you don't need to tape. I have a quattro and a hybrid (both ffm) and my ahi is always the same, whichever mask I use. (0.0 to 0.3) You need to get the ffm dialed in a bit better, I'm sure the leaks had a lot to do with your raised ahi. The quattro and quattro fx do not need to be tightened down as they are designed to float on your face with a cushion of air. Perhaps a homemade mask liner will help out with the leaks, I always use a liner. As to using a leak strap, why don't you just use a shoe lace or such to see if it works before you go buy one.....just make sure you are not covering up you exhale ports.
Good luck
Nan

Great information and suggestions Nan. Thanks much!

[Janknitz]

It's very hard to stop the leaks on a FF mask, there is just so much surface area where leaks can occur! So you need to really work on the fitting to try to get the leaks under control.

FWIW, I'm OK with the Mirage Quattro, but I cannot get the leaks under control with the Quattro FX. I think it's the shape of my face. Even the Quattro has it's leak issues, but they are usually down by the chin, not up into my eyes.

[Perrybucsdad]

Brian,

I have a link in my signature of some findings that I found out first hand through research and personal trial. Look at "So you think you're a mouth breather" and I think you will see some supporting evidence that some things change with the FFM and thius your pressure requirements change.

I made the switch from FFM to nasal pillows a little while back, and I will never go back unless something major happens. I am so much more comfortable at night with the pillows than I ever was with the FFM.

- John

[osmium sleeper]

It is also possible to need less pressure with a FFM or an Oral mask due to a larger airway via the mouth route, especially in somebody like myself who has chronic sinus/turbinate problems.

[cindjo717]

I had a lot of leaks with the quatro fx, but I realized it was from the position of the top head strap that was causing it. I have it under some control now although that top strap seems to slip in the middle of the night and I still get leaks due to same. I liked the nasal pillow mask but the only major problem that I had was I could not get the pillows to stay lodged in my nares.. Nothing that I tried worked, they constantly popped out of my nostrils, so I went back to the quatro fx.

[archangle]

Some people say that because the FFM pushes back on your jaw, it can shift your jaw backwards and you may need more pressure.

With a FFM, if your mouth opens, you won't lose all your pressure. You may still get moisture problems if your mouth opens due to the mouthbreathing. Even with a FFM, you may still want a chin strap. If your jaw opens, the shape of your face may change, and you may have more leak problems.

A FFM may decrease mouthbreathing. With a nasal mask, there's air pressure in your mouth trying to force your lips open. With an FFM, the pressure outside your lips equals the pressure inside, so the lips may stay close.

Unfortunately, a lot of this CPAP stuff is trial and error.

[Komodo]

Some people say that because the FFM pushes back on your jaw, it can shift your jaw backwards and you may need more pressure.

BINGO!

It took me a while to figure it out, but that's the problem I have with a FFM.
For me, the solution was simple, don't use the FFM and go back to the nasal mask.

There ARE nights when I'm so congested that I do use the FFM, but my numbers go off the charts. It's still better than no mask.

[Paul56]

I've been on CPAP for 2 years this month, and have stuck to it 100%. Using nasal pillows, I had my AHI down to 2 or less consistently, but had to tape, chinstrap, etc... due to being a mouthbreather. I felt that I could finally tolerate a FFM, and switched yesterday, finding that the Quattro FX had made some changes and was very comfortable.

I changed the mask settings on my machine, and didn't have much problem falling asleep.This morning I felt horrible. Last nights leaks were zero, but my AHI shot up to 12.8, With an AI of 2.2. In addition, my sweetheart told me that I was snoring in my mask, and my mouth felt as dry as the desert.

Not the result I was expecting at all. Anyone have suggestions? I'd like to stick with it, but not with these sorts of results.

Thanks!

Keep track of your nightly results.

You might want to try it a 2nd night with the same settings, if no better then...

-increase pressure very gradually
-increase humidity

Zero leaks is excellent so you have a great fit.