OT POLL: (CLOSED) Apologies to those irritated by it.

[billbolton]

Give it a rest jnk... really.... this is so juvenile.

+1

[jnk]

Give it a rest jnk... really.... this is so juvenile.

+1

Thanks for the kind, supportive bump, there, Bill.

But there really is no need for it now; I already rested my case.

I appreciate the thought, though.

[billbolton]

I already rested my case.

Clearly not........

[jnk]

Ozij asked me nicely to end the poll, which I did, once I figured out how to do it. (I put a "1" in the poll duration box.) I respect pretty much any reasonable request from her.

If anyone cares to know my final thoughts on the matter for some reason, here they are. Feel free to ignore them. There is nothing of real substance in them.

First a few words about the poll, from my perspective: (Hey, remember, I said not to read what I am about to write if you find me as irritating as some others do. ) What does this poll prove? Absolutely nothing, just like any other nonscientific poll. Well, maybe it proves I can be as juvenile as the next guy, when I am under personal attack from someone who seems to me to be going waaaay out of his way to attempt board-wide character assassination. Long-timers here know that I am not the first Mars has gone after with similar campaigns. But I hope I'm the last. I have a feeling I am.

Second, a few words about Mars: I like him. He is highly intelligent, funny as all get-out, a master of the English language, knowledgeable, caring, warm, and insightful. He knows things I'll never know from his life experience and his intense research on many, many matters. I've seen him be gentle and nurturing. I've read when he has made logical connections that have been true moments of enlightenment for me. Temper? Yeah. Emotionally engaged? Yeah. I didn't mean to step on his toes when I inserted what I considered clarifying information into some of his threads about the exciting, developing field of positional therapy that he has pinned some personal hopes on and that he has discussed enough for it to become part of his online identity. I believe he considered my words about it to be words about him--a personal affront. So he felt justified to bite back, as he saw it, in a personal way. On some levels, I give him that right, if for nothing more than the number of years he has on me. I am a snotty-nosed kid next to his years of life.

Do I forgive the guy? Sure. It's understandable. I can see myself making the same mistake. Hey, this sleep-problem stuff is important stuff, and posts by people who are personally engaged and passionate about sleep and helping people is exactly what this forum needs more of. I would not have made an issue of this if he had ended his personal vendetta within a reasonable amount of time. It was only when he started calling me names in threads that I only stumbled on by accident later that I figured he needed to be stopped for the principle of the thing. So I attempted to make a point, albeit in my juvenile way. Personal attacks can hurt. They can hurt the feelings of the attacked and can hurt the reputation of the attacker.

Mars' threads have always been some of my favorites here. That is why I have always been drawn to them to post in them--they contain intelligent observations that beg for a response when I read them. Personally, I hope he continues to post them, whether he is comfortable with me posting in them or not, for now. All I ask is that in the future when people call me "dishonest" or a "liar," especially when they really do mean it, that they at least do me the favor of putting one of those irritating little smilies next to it. Like that one. Dave loves those, you know.

And now back to our regularly scheduled program of people helping people get good sleep.

[VVV]

... Long-timers here know that I am not the first Mars has gone after with similar campaigns. But I hope I'm the last. I have a feeling I am. ...

Are you a forum administrator? Did you banish Mars from the forum?

IMO administrators should be clearly marked in the section under their avatar on every post.

[jnk]

... Long-timers here know that I am not the first Mars has gone after with similar campaigns. But I hope I'm the last. I have a feeling I am. ...

Are you a forum administrator? Did you banish Mars from the forum?

IMO administrators should be clearly marked in the section under their avatar on every post.

I believe you may have misread something I said. I have a feeling Mars will choose, of his own free will, not to continue his attacks, but to continue his fine informative posts, instead.

To the best of my knowledge, no one has the authority to banish anyone from this forum other than those who work directly with the owners of this forum, as headed by Johnny Goodman. It has been his choice to let the forum sort of police itself, which is why I chose to appeal to the forum as a whole to judge me rather than to appeal to Johnny, in my particular circumstance. Not everyone agrees with that choice of mine, though.

There is nothing mysterious going on here. I guy lost his temper with me, called me names, I let it slide, but then his name-calling continued for weeks unabated. Once I was at the end of my patience, I posted this stupid poll to draw attention to what he was doing, since this forum isn't really moderated at all, from what I see, in the classical sense.

It is my belief that Mars is thinking things over, and reasonable man that he is, he will be back posting his valuable information in no time.

I apologize if I ever gave anyone the impression that I have any authority whatsoever around here. I don't. I never have. I never will. And I think Johnny does just fine handling things the way he has chosen to handle them around here over the years. The only alternative would be the costly, messy process of constant, judgmental monitoring as goes on at other apnea-related boards.

Here are his feelings as stated to the board on June 7, 2007:

My approach to moderating cpaptalk is well known. Here's the basic rational:

Beware the person who wishes to legislate the morality and the behavior of his neighbor. Respect the person who accepts as responsibility, duty and sacred privilege the task of successfully moderating his own behavior. People who can do this are rare beacons of light. It is easy to point the finger "elsewhere" and imagine a utopia will result. It is hard to do the work and take responsibility to make your first utopia internal. Paraphrasing Ghandi - be the change you wish to see in the world.

There are no rules, no distant moderator, no respected member of the community that can legislate or moderate away our own foul dispositions. If this were not true, one of the many forms of government our forefathers have tried would have worked. For another example of the rhetoric used by people who advocate such a position, read literature from those favoring prohibition before its enactment. These people believed sincerely in their cause, they had good intentions and were good people but their actions were doomed to failure from the start.

How does all of that lofty philosophy play out in real life? In the most basic terms,
I'm trading value for value. I provide the domain, the hosting, the software and the moderation of CPAPtalk in accordance with my set of beliefs regarding human nature and business. You may use it free of charge, you may find a better board or you may start your own.

There will be no additional moderators on CPAPtalk. The core values of this board will continue to govern it. Love your neighbor and be a neighbor others can love.

Johnny

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=20895&p=179739#p179739

[Guest]

I rarely read what jnk writes anymore. He almost always distorts the facts when he is not being obnoxious to others.

[jnk]

I rarely read what jnk writes anymore. He almost always distorts the facts when he is not being obnoxious to others.

Wow. I wish I too had the same magical powers as Guest so that I too could somehow know what the content "almost always" was of what I "rarely read"!

Good one, Guest!