Discouraged...about to give up...

[Mary Z]

The mask I use is the FitLife Total Face Mask. I also had trouble with the bridge of my nose breaking down with the quattro. I had to take 20 days off to allow my nose to heal (this was in the beginning of therapy and I didn't realize there were alternatives). The FitLife is a large mask that completely misses the bridge of my nose and I find it very comfortable with 0 leaks most nights.

[Perrybucsdad]

Yes I have 2 FF masks...The mirage quattro and the the quattro FX...both tear up my face even when using the liners...

Wait a minute... when you use a Padacheek liner it tear's up your face? How flippin tight are you making it? What pressure setting are you using? I do the pressure check with mine and I don't have it overly tight and I don't have any issues.

[Cuda]

Different face types have different results with FF masks. I have to have mine rather tight or I have massive leaks but with correct position and not making it too tight the quattro works for me but not always. I think one problem with a FF mask is when you roll over at night, then the mask can press hard against one side of the nose causing sores etc.

[Janknitz]

Wait a minute... when you use a Padacheek liner it tear's up your face? How flippin tight are you making it? What pressure setting are you using? I do the pressure check with mine and I don't have it overly tight and I don't have any issues.

Hey, let's cut her some slack! There is both an art and science to getting these air cushion style masks adjusted correctly--they are really not good masks for newbies. It takes time to understand that the air cushion in these masks must be fully inflated to seal around the nose, and that means as little pressure as possible on the top straps. The bottom straps are a little tighter, however.

It's perfectly understandable that the normal response to leakage around the nose is to tighten the upper straps--except that tightening these straps doesn't work. So until a user has figured this out, they are going to get pressure and sores on the nose with these masks, liner or no. Finally, there's so much surface area trying to seal against a mobile face, that leaks are almost inevitable. These can be great masks, but it takes patience and practice to get them to work. Nasal pillows are SO much easier!!!!

[ems]

Nasal pillows are SO much easier!!!!

Sooooooooooooo much easier!

[Cuda]

Nasal pillows are soooooooooo much easier.....

Unless you breath through your mouth at night then without a chin strap and/or taping pillows are completely useless. I will say that if you do not have a problem breathing through your mouth the nasal pillows are in fact a dream come true. I LOVED the Swift FX. By the time I put on the chin strap and taped my mouth shut it became MORE work than just using a full face mask.

As far as newbies busting up their nose at the start I did the same exact thing. What takes time is learning the relationship between a tight feeling when you go to bed and what that will result in when you wake. When you first start you clamp that sucker on and feel its tolerable to fall asleep with only to find out that 6 hours of that pressure turns you into rudolph. Over time I am learning what feels "too tight" when I go to sleep and how that relates to the damage when I wake up.

Full face masks become more problematic the more pressure you use as well. At 10cm the Quattro FX is a dream, at 20cm things get tricky. Another thing I noticed was EPR and APAP have to be factored in as well. Finding the right tension to keep a seal and not bust up your face is hard enough but consider EPR and APAP. They both change pressure on your mask, one with every breath and the other while you are asleep. I found it odd its not mentioned here more. EPR created a "rocking motion" with my mask. At 15cm inhale and 12cm exhale I noticed sealing problems while I slept but with EPR at 1 those problems were reduced. APAP is even more of an issue for me, I like the idea but a setting of 12-20cm for example creates problems. You have to mask fit for 20cm, that is fit the mask to float and seal at 20cm but when you start and possibly for a good portion of the night you are at 12cm. That means the mask is over-tightened which for a floater can cause leaks and certainly beat the heck out of your face.

If I ever get nasal pillows to work I may give EPR and APAP more of a go but with a full face mask like the Quattro I went back to straight CPAP and a low EPR. Then I can spend time fitting the mask for seal and comfort for exactly the pressure the mask is going to deal with all night. For me that meant a drastic reduction in leaks and a huge improvement in comfort. As far as getting use to the high pressure I have just increased slowly every night. Now 15cm feels like nothing to me, in fact less is no longer comfortable so remember you will adapt to the higher pressures if the mask is comfortable and sealing.

Another issue is the FF masks seem to do worse when moving around. When I side sleep I can get huge leaks as the mask hits the pillow and breaks the seal. I am hoping a pillow will fix this issue. When I sleep on my back I can get a perfect seal that lasts the night with no face damage but its makes my OSA worse causing more obstructive events.

So in closing the full face is my mask of choice due to an open mouth causing issues with nasal pillows but I need to work on the right sleeping position and/or pillow so I can side sleep and I will keep EPR low and avoid APAP or keep the range tighter (18-20cm vs. 10-20cm) in order to fit the mask easier.

I am still fighting with all this so these are just observations from a newbie.

[MeghanRF]

I was just logging on to do a search on what to do about nasal pillows. During my sleep study, I was immediately turned off from them preferring the full face mask as it was less intense pressure in my nose, and I hated the feeling of air coming out of my mouth.

Just last week, as a now seasoned and happy CPAP user, I tried to give the nasal pillows a shot, and LOVED the feeling. LOVED it, so much less cumbersome.

For an hour... until I realized that air kept coming out of my mouth and waking me up.

It sounds like what people are saying is that then you try: A) a chin strap, and/or B) Taping... Do you guys think it's worth trying? Or does it really end up being just as hectic as the full mask?

Nasal pillows are soooooooooo much easier.....

Unless you breath through your mouth at night then without a chin strap and/or taping pillows are completely useless. I will say that if you do not have a problem breathing through your mouth the nasal pillows are in fact a dream come true. I LOVED the Swift FX. By the time I put on the chin strap and taped my mouth shut it became MORE work than just using a full face mask.

As far as newbies busting up their nose at the start I did the same exact thing. What takes time is learning the relationship between a tight feeling when you go to bed and what that will result in when you wake. When you first start you clamp that sucker on and feel its tolerable to fall asleep with only to find out that 6 hours of that pressure turns you into rudolph. Over time I am learning what feels "too tight" when I go to sleep and how that relates to the damage when I wake up.

Full face masks become more problematic the more pressure you use as well. At 10cm the Quattro FX is a dream, at 20cm things get tricky. Another thing I noticed was EPR and APAP have to be factored in as well. Finding the right tension to keep a seal and not bust up your face is hard enough but consider EPR and APAP. They both change pressure on your mask, one with every breath and the other while you are asleep. I found it odd its not mentioned here more. EPR created a "rocking motion" with my mask. At 15cm inhale and 12cm exhale I noticed sealing problems while I slept but with EPR at 1 those problems were reduced. APAP is even more of an issue for me, I like the idea but a setting of 12-20cm for example creates problems. You have to mask fit for 20cm, that is fit the mask to float and seal at 20cm but when you start and possibly for a good portion of the night you are at 12cm. That means the mask is over-tightened which for a floater can cause leaks and certainly beat the heck out of your face.

If I ever get nasal pillows to work I may give EPR and APAP more of a go but with a full face mask like the Quattro I went back to straight CPAP and a low EPR. Then I can spend time fitting the mask for seal and comfort for exactly the pressure the mask is going to deal with all night. For me that meant a drastic reduction in leaks and a huge improvement in comfort. As far as getting use to the high pressure I have just increased slowly every night. Now 15cm feels like nothing to me, in fact less is no longer comfortable so remember you will adapt to the higher pressures if the mask is comfortable and sealing.

Another issue is the FF masks seem to do worse when moving around. When I side sleep I can get huge leaks as the mask hits the pillow and breaks the seal. I am hoping a pillow will fix this issue. When I sleep on my back I can get a perfect seal that lasts the night with no face damage but its makes my OSA worse causing more obstructive events.

So in closing the full face is my mask of choice due to an open mouth causing issues with nasal pillows but I need to work on the right sleeping position and/or pillow so I can side sleep and I will keep EPR low and avoid APAP or keep the range tighter (18-20cm vs. 10-20cm) in order to fit the mask easier.

I am still fighting with all this so these are just observations from a newbie.

[Breathe Jimbo]

Kilgore is John Henry BBQ country, no? I love his rubs. Great on brisket. Hmmm, hmmm.

I have had good results with a PapCap for mouth leaks. In fact, using the PapCap at night, every night, seems to "train" my mouth to stay shut when I take naps. The PapCap has allowed me to continue using nasal pillows, although I understand it may not be for everyone.

[Pugsy]

It sounds like what people are saying is that then you try: A) a chin strap, and/or B) Taping... Do you guys think it's worth trying? Or does it really end up being just as hectic as the full mask?

Depends on which is more work, more comfortable and how badly do you want it to work.

I taped for 2 months before I seemed to have retrained my body to keep my mouth shut and I no longer needed to tape.
For me the inconvenience of taping was far less than me trying to adjust to a full face mask which was extremely difficult due to straps near my bad neck. I simply could not comfortably even wear a full face mask...much less get to all the leak problems..Would have meant no sleep.

The inconvenience was minimal to me. Mask on..tear off strip of tape...slap it on..go to sleep.
I found no need to use chin strap when I taped.

[ems]

The inconvenience was minimal to me. Mask on..tear off strip of tape...slap it on..go to sleep.
I found no need to use chin strap when I taped.

Please tell me what tape you used. Thanks.


*Just saw on another thread it was blue painters tape.

[Pugsy]

Please tell me what tape you used. Thanks.


*Just saw on another thread it was blue painters tape.

Yep... and not even the delicate brand.. I had done some painting at my mom's and I had the plain ordinary blue tape and being the tight wad I am.. I use it. Never bothered my skin. Before I ever slept with it I did tape and see how easily it could be removed or dislodged. A good yawn will do it. It doesn't setup like cement and a few nights I must have drooled a little and it came loose. Not extremely difficult to remove but just secure enough to keep my mouth shut for the majority of the time.

[ozze_dollar]

The only advice i can give you is that IT GETS BETTER. As time goes on you learn lots of little tricks and all the things you do get easier as you learn to do them better and quicker.

Dont give up. Your OSA is quite bad,whats the alternative for you?

[MeghanRF]

Thanks Pugsy. I'm buying tape! After walking around with dents in my face all morning on my errands, I feel motivated.

[apneawho]

Meghan,
I tape every night with Nexcare paper tape, available several places including Walgreens, WalMart and Amazon.com.
I struggled with a chin strap for awhile because I thought taping sounded so barbaric, but I have grown accustomed to it, if you know what I mean. It is far less cumbersome than a chin strap and it allows me to use my beloved Swift FX for her nasal pillows. It is the best mask for me and others are saying it too.