Sleep Dr. Never Heard of Drs. Krakow and Park

napstress · Post by **napstress** » Tue Sep 20, 2011 4:22 pm

When I mentioned Drs. Krakow and Park to my sleep dr., she said she didn't know who they were. Is it common for sleep specialists not to have heard of these two doctors? Should I be alarmed? They seem like pretty big names in the field. I would like to think that she keeps current in her field. Are there other leaders in the field she might be keeping up with instead?

Alshain · Post by **Alshain** » Tue Sep 20, 2011 4:27 pm

Why keep up with people? Why not keep up with the medicine? I don't know who either of these two people are either.

archangle · Post by **archangle** » Tue Sep 20, 2011 4:46 pm

napstress wrote:When I mentioned Drs. Krakow and Park to my sleep dr., she said she didn't know who they were. Is it common for sleep specialists not to have heard of these two doctors? Should I be alarmed? They seem like pretty big names in the field. I would like to think that she keeps current in her field. Are there other leaders in the field she might be keeping up with instead?

"Big names" to cpap users and "big names" to the medical community are often very different things.

Breathe Jimbo · Post by **Breathe Jimbo** » Tue Sep 20, 2011 5:05 pm

I would attach no significance to that ignorance.

moresleep · Post by **moresleep** » Tue Sep 20, 2011 5:43 pm

I'd be more worried if she hadn't heard of Dr. Sullivan.

avi123 · Post by **avi123** » Tue Sep 20, 2011 5:55 pm

napstress wrote:When I mentioned Drs. Krakow and Park to my sleep dr., she said she didn't know who they were. Is it common for sleep specialists not to have heard of these two doctors? Should I be alarmed? They seem like pretty big names in the field. I would like to think that she keeps current in her field. Are there other leaders in the field she might be keeping up with instead?

There are only few real Sleep Doctors like this one: Board certified: Internal Medicine, Sleep Medicine, and Pulmonary Diseases. (this Doc holds an MD in each of the three specialties)

Most "Sleep doctors" are regular MDs who took some classes in sleep medicine and know less than we do as posters on this board. So no wonder that they don't know about the experts in the field.

GumbyCT · Post by **GumbyCT** » Tue Sep 20, 2011 7:29 pm

More importantly, does she help you or does it seem like a money mill?

But yea, I think most anyone knows who in their area of specialty is on the leading edge.

Slinky · Post by **Slinky** » Tue Sep 20, 2011 8:22 pm

There's also Dr Li we hear a lot of who was at Stanford and excels in Stanford's UPP graduated surgeries.

Sleep medicine is "just" a sub-specialty. Many just take sleep on as a sub-specialty because its "easy money" not requiring the investment of much time in practice. There are quite a few who don't ever see or consult w/the patient, but just dictate their reports of the results of the PSGs and send them on to the referring doctor to handle from there on.

moresleep · Post by **moresleep** » Tue Sep 20, 2011 8:38 pm

Seems to me that a sleep doctor should at least know something about the invention of the Cpap machine, the inventor's theories and goals, and what he thinks of current Cpap technology and its shortcomings. But, maybe I'm asking too much.

SleepingUgly · Post by **SleepingUgly** » Tue Sep 20, 2011 8:48 pm

napstress wrote:When I mentioned Drs. Krakow and Park to my sleep dr., she said she didn't know who they were. Is it common for sleep specialists not to have heard of these two doctors? Should I be alarmed? They seem like pretty big names in the field. I would like to think that she keeps current in her field. Are there other leaders in the field she might be keeping up with instead?

No. One becomes a "big name" in the field by publishing in peer-reviewed journals. Neither of them have published much at all. It doesn't mean that they aren't good practitioners (or that they are--I have no idea), only that there's no reason for her to have heard of them. In short, she can keep very current and never have heard of them. Go into google scholar and see who comes up over and over when you search on topics relevant for you. I didn't do the search, but I'm betting if you put in Upper Airway Resistance Syndromes, the names Christian Guilleminault, Avram Gold, and others are going to come up repeatedly. If she's never heard of them, I'd be worried!

Mike6977 · Post by **Mike6977** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 2:13 am

.

SleepingUgly wrote:One becomes a "big name" in the field by publishing in peer-reviewed journals.

Or not. .Depends on the message. .Dr. Dean Ornish should have revolutionized the practice of cardiology with his groundbreaking trials:

"Can lifestyle changes reverse coronary heart disease?: The Lifestyle Heart Trial", The Lancet, 1990
"Intensive Lifestyle Changes for Reversal of CHD", The Journal of the American Medical Association, 1998
"Avoiding Revascularization with Lifestyle Changes; The Multicenter Lifestyle Demonstration Project", The American journal of cardiology, 1998

130 articles, almost all in major, peer-reviewed journals. .His "Lifestyle Heart Trial" was published in The Lancet, the most prestigious journal in Europe, the American equivalent to publishing in The New England Journal of Medicine.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________

Yet, I can't tell you how many times I've mentioned his name to a doctor (not necessarily a cardiologist, but someone who should know the basics of cardiology), and they've said: "Who?"

As the old adage goes in psychiatry: "First, the patient has to want to change ."

.

SleepingUgly · Post by **SleepingUgly** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 9:04 am

Mike, you love to argue, don't you?

Julie · Post by **Julie** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 9:25 am

One can also become a 'big name' just by getting on TV on occasion - doesn't make them good doctors, doesn't mean they've been published a lot or that those publications were worth much, it just means they got on TV, and there are many ways to do that, but people will then think they're boy (or girl) wonders and break down their doors to get help there... publicity is everything sometimes.

rested gal · Post by **rested gal** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 12:37 pm

Julie wrote:One can also become a 'big name' just by getting on TV on occasion - doesn't make them good doctors, doesn't mean they've been published a lot or that those publications were worth much, it just means they got on TV, and there are many ways to do that, but people will then think they're boy (or girl) wonders and break down their doors to get help there... publicity is everything sometimes.

Good point, Julie!

moresleep · Post by **moresleep** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 12:49 pm

People who use light bulbs should know the name Edison. Doctors who prescribe Cpap machines should know the name Sullivan. The other names may or may not be important; but, if a sleep doctor doesn't even know that basics about the history of the Cpap machine and its development, he/she shouldn't be prescribing Cpap therapy.

As one doctor (not a sleep doctor) told me, the continuing eduction of most doctors consists mainly of reading the materials that accompany the free samples sent them by the drug companies. Probably not far from the truth, alas.

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