Where is your breathing?

[victormiller]

Last month I had an appointment with Dr. Stephen Y. Park. During the appointment he examined me with a light pipe (there's undoubtedly a more technical name for the device) stuck down my nose into my throat. He had me lie on my back, and then make an effort to thrust my lower jaw forward as far as possible. He showed me that that opened up a lot of room in my pharynx (which was almost completely close when my jaw was in the normal position). So he suggested that I try an oral applicance, which I've now been using for a month. This also led me to other experiments -- I breathe in through my nose (when I'm standing or sitting) and notice where I feel the air going. In normal position it feels like the air ends (hits the back of my throat) around my Adam's apple. However, when I thrust my jaw out it feels like it's going all the way down and I can feel my lower abdomen expand much more. When I stick my tongue out all the way it feels like it's flowing even more easily. I can't walk around all day with my tongue stuck out, which is too bad, since I feel like I'm getting a lot more air with a lot less effort. So where do people feel their breath going -- first in the normal position, and then with their tongue stuck out?

[ThirdOutOfFive]

I see what you mean. I try to breathe with my abdomen rather than my chest. I feel that I am taking in more air that way. To see if you are using your abdomen to breathe, just place one hand on the abdomen and see if that is where the air is going. If your are breathing with your chest, keep the hand on your abdomen and try to breathe "lower". It may take time, but I think it is worth it.

[victormiller]

I see what you mean. I try to breathe with my abdomen rather than my chest. I feel that I am taking in more air that way. To see if you are using your abdomen to breathe, just place one hand on the abdomen and see if that is where the air is going. If your are breathing with your chest, keep the hand on your abdomen and try to breathe "lower". It may take time, but I think it is worth it.

I've taken voice lessons for 8 years. One of the big things that they concentrate on is breathing -- especially abdominal breathing. I've done lots of exercises to get into that mode, and I do that pretty unconsciously. However I noticed that when I stick my tongue out all the way that my abdominal breathing is fuller and easier. My tongue is obstructing something. When it's in the normal position my abdomen (as opposed to my chest) still inflates, but I feel the breath stopping in my throat. Since I mentioned the voice lessons, I noticed that when I thrust my jaw forward my voice feels more resonant and I can hit high notes (I'm a tenor) much more easily.

[gasp]

I too see what you mean. Interesting. Definitely breath more fully with tongue extended. I asked my hubby to try this and he who does not have apnea agrees it enhances air flow into the lower lungs.

[gasp]

PS I went browsing for apnea/tongue related information and saw a lot of not pretty pictures of tongues and gave up. The reason I post this is to ponder if most people with apnea have larger tongues. According to the pictures I found and information on what measurements indicate 'normal' and which do not I have a smallish/normal tongue. So much for that hypothesis.

[ems]

Hey Victor... I seem to breath like you do.

[victormiller]

PS I went browsing for apnea/tongue related information and saw a lot of not pretty pictures of tongues and gave up. The reason I post this is to ponder if most people with apnea have larger tongues. According to the pictures I found and information on what measurements indicate 'normal' and which do not I have a smallish/normal tongue. So much for that hypothesis.

I was told by Dr. Park that I had a rather large tongue. One of my ex-girlfriends also told me that, but that's another matter .

[chunkyfrog]

For me, jaw and tongue position make NO difference; but abdominal breathing works.
A former co-worker had TMJ--suffered horribly--I've read some scary stories about the dental 'apnea appliances'.
Not for me. As long as my machine works, I'm good.

[victormiller]

For me, jaw and tongue position make NO difference; but abdominal breathing works.
A former co-worker had TMJ--suffered horribly--I've read some scary stories about the dental 'apnea appliances'.
Not for me. As long as my machine works, I'm good.

What kind of scary stories? I'm curious. I was told by the dentist that I might have drooling, problems closing my mouth after I take out the appliance which would last an hour. I never had any drooling. I did have a little pain for a few days in my TMJ, bu that went away, and never had problems closing my mouth. Right now it's much more comfortable and less intrusive than my bipap auto.

[VVV]

The reason I post this is to ponder if most people with apnea have larger tongues.

It certainly could be that some people have larger (larger than what?) tongues and this is the cause of their sleep apnea.

It has steadily been hammered into my head by reading in cpaptalk that underdeveloped jaws are the primary cause of obstructive sleep apnea. I also checked Dr. Steven Park's articles and this is also his claim.

I asked my sleep doc about it on a visit a few months ago and he showed me the indications of my own underdeveloped jaw and indicated that was the sole cause of my apnea. An underdeveloped jaw seems problematic to fix, so it is CPAP for life for me.

Of course an underdeveloped jaw leaves not enough room for a normal size tongue and therefore the tongue may appear to be "too large".

[Alshain]

I see what you mean. I try to breathe with my abdomen rather than my chest. I feel that I am taking in more air that way.

Lol, you guys have just learned the first thing they teach in beginner brass and woodwind classes

Yes you should be able to get much more air breathing all the way into the stomach/abdomen. Also, sit up with your back straight on the edge of your chair... oh I guess that doesn't help here.

[Resister]

PS I went browsing for apnea/tongue related information and saw a lot of not pretty pictures of tongues and gave up. The reason I post this is to ponder if most people with apnea have larger tongues. According to the pictures I found and information on what measurements indicate 'normal' and which do not I have a smallish/normal tongue. So much for that hypothesis.

Interesting theory! I was once told by my clarinet instructor that I have a large tongue which made it a bit more difficult for me to play.

[gasp]

The reason I post this is to ponder if most people with apnea have larger tongues.

It certainly could be that some people have larger (larger than what?) tongues and this is the cause of their sleep apnea.

It has steadily been hammered into my head by reading in cpaptalk that underdeveloped jaws are the primary cause of obstructive sleep apnea. I also checked Dr. Steven Park's articles and this is also his claim.

I asked my sleep doc about it on a visit a few months ago and he showed me the indications of my own underdeveloped jaw and indicated that was the sole cause of my apnea. An underdeveloped jaw seems problematic to fix, so it is CPAP for life for me.

Of course an underdeveloped jaw leaves not enough room for a normal size tongue and therefore the tongue may appear to be "too large".

Well there you go, underdeveloped jaw = too large tongue . . . and in my case a dental tori = too large 'normal size' tongue. One of the websites I visited mentioned measurements for what was medically considered a normal size tongue but I'm too lazy just now to find it : )