Measuring oxygen overnight as a correlate to OSA?

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jskinner
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Re: Measuring oxygen overnight as a correlate to OSA?

Post by jskinner » Sat Jul 30, 2011 12:04 am

Guest wrote:I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. There's a reason why hypopneas are defined the way they are--hint: they begin to cause problems at the level of definition. Most people generally cannot be deprived of 50% of the oxygen they should be getting and not start to suffer.
I'm not disagreeing with you. Yes hypopneas cause serious problems. If anyone knows about suffering from hypopneas its me. I'm sorry for my post. sigh.

PS I miss Snoredog...
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Jade
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Re: Measuring oxygen overnight as a correlate to OSA?

Post by Jade » Sat Jul 30, 2011 1:47 pm

(Sorry for the format, but that quote thing is not easy to use when there’s multiple items to respond to!)

Muse-Inc, that’s a possibility I admit I overlooked. I didn’t have much desat action with my hypops and I’m glad to be set straight that it can happen. I should probably do periodic spot-checks to see if anything’s changed. Thanks for deepening the discussion.

I’m intrigued by SleepingUgly’s comment: “Personally when I think of UARS, I think of RERAs and FLs. When I think of OSA, I think of OAs and Hypopneas.” Do other people think of these similarly?

Are both AASM Recommended and AASM Alternative scoring criteria equally valid, or are they a way to qualify more people for cpap? What determines which method is used? I don’t think I would have had nearly as high an AHI if the lab had used the Recommended version.

I’ve looked at the report I got, and I can’t see a way to tell how much hypops were associated with arousals… Is arousals and hypops kind of a chicken-and-egg discussion, or do we know if there’s a causal relationship at all?

“Desaturations indicate something needs to be treated; however, the absence of desaturations doesn't mean there's nothing that needs to be treated.” And in the absence of desats or daytime sleepiness, naps, nocturia am I right in thinking that at this point in time there’s no more accurate or specific way to determine in an individual whether something is actually causing damage and needs to be treated?

“I think we know less about the serious risks associated with SDB associated with only arousals, and no desaturations than about the cardiovascular risks associated with desaturating.” I’d love to learn from a discussion about this--anyone want to comment on it?

“I think you DON'T trust that, or we wouldn't be having this conversation.” Not entirely correct. Assessing ignorance on my part and wanting increase my knowledge isn’t equal to mistrust. The current Krakow thread is of interest to me as he may a good source for a 2nd opinion--or he may just see me as an ASV nail sticking up. And I gotta make some time soon to listen to Dr G’s interview.

Lots of really interesting food for thought here…

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Re: Measuring oxygen overnight as a correlate to OSA?

Post by cflame1 » Sat Jul 30, 2011 9:55 pm

jskinner wrote:PS I miss Snoredog...
Yeah I think that a lot of us do James... at least those that have been around long enough to have known him... or those that have run across his posts.

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Re: Measuring oxygen overnight as a correlate to OSA?

Post by jskinner » Sat Jul 30, 2011 10:43 pm

Jade wrote:I’m intrigued by SleepingUgly’s comment: “Personally when I think of UARS, I think of RERAs and FLs. When I think of OSA, I think of OAs and Hypopneas.” Do other people think of these similarly?
Yes that's the way that I normally view it. And to me Sleep Disordered Breathing (SDB) is a more generic term includes both UARS and OSA. Its just a continuum of course. Its all a matter of how much the airway is narrowing and what definitions (percentage of air restriction) you use for each term.
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Re: Measuring oxygen overnight as a correlate to OSA?

Post by jskinner » Sat Jul 30, 2011 10:45 pm

cflame1 wrote:
jskinner wrote:PS I miss Snoredog...
Yeah I think that a lot of us do James... at least those that have been around long enough to have known him... or those that have run across his posts.
If anyone knows his family's mailing address please PM me with it. I tried to send a note to his family after his death but it was returned with the wrong address. (I used the funeral home if I remember correctly) I'd like to let his family know how much all his online support meant to me.
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Re: Measuring oxygen overnight as a correlate to OSA?

Post by SleepingUgly » Sun Jul 31, 2011 8:00 am

Jade wrote:Are both AASM Recommended and AASM Alternative scoring criteria equally valid, or are they a way to qualify more people for cpap? What determines which method is used? I don’t think I would have had nearly as high an AHI if the lab had used the Recommended version.
Anyone with hypopneas who does not desaturate would not have as high of an AHI if the lab used the Recommended criteria instead of the Alternative. (That is evident in the article that I linked to.) People like me might go undiagnosed for another couple of decades (or probably just until menopause...). People who are thin are less likely to desaturate. You'll hear that from Dr. Guilleminault when you listen to the MP3. In my opinion, and apparently in Dr. Guilleminault's opinion, the Recommended criteria is too stringent because it won't include young, thin people who just work harder to breathe and will only capture severe apnea largely in the overweight population, who will desaturate more quickly. The lab determines which method is used.
Is arousals and hypops kind of a chicken-and-egg discussion, or do we know if there’s a causal relationship at all?
Hypopneas cause arousals. If you didn't arouse, you'd eventually obstruct more fully and then you'd either arouse or desaturate.
“Desaturations indicate something needs to be treated; however, the absence of desaturations doesn't mean there's nothing that needs to be treated.” And in the absence of desats or daytime sleepiness, naps, nocturia am I right in thinking that at this point in time there’s no more accurate or specific way to determine in an individual whether something is actually causing damage and needs to be treated?
I don't know. I was told that we don't know what the consequences of untreated SDB are to the brain, but desaturations carry cardiovascular risks. In the MP3 he talks about the risks associated with snoring, and some unclear risks of allergies, infections, or just the river running through the gorge (listen to the MP3 for that analogy that he used).
Never put your fate entirely in the hands of someone who cares less about it than you do. --Sleeping Ugly

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Re: Measuring oxygen overnight as a correlate to OSA?

Post by OutaSync » Sun Jul 31, 2011 10:00 am

jskinner wrote:If anyone knows his family's mailing address please PM me with it. I tried to send a note to his family after his death but it was returned with the wrong address. (I used the funeral home if I remember correctly) I'd like to let his family know how much all his online support meant to me.

James,

Snoredog's youngest daughter, Ali, registered and posted one time on the "Rest in Peace" thread. Her registered name is "Snorepup". Maybe you could PM her and it will ding her email inbox.

Bev
Diagnosed 9/4/07
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