Mouth Breathing Dilemma

[Padron192664]

I've been waking up some mornings with a slightly dry mouth recently and air blowing out my taped mouth. I'm able to breathe thru my nose during the day and most of the night but once I reach deep sleep and dreamland, my mouth wants to start doing the breathing even with the tape over it. I'm currently on my 4th week of treatment. It wasn't happening in the beginning of treatment because I dont think I was getting as deep of sleep but now that I'm become comfortable with my mask, I've been sleeping a little better. I'm not sure what to do. I LOVE my nasal pillows but am basically losing therapy out my mouth almost every night. I havent tried a chinstrap yet but use 3m micropore tape to try to keep it shut. I'm placing a call with my sleep docs office shortly to see what he recommends but he isnt a big fan of face masks as he doesnt believe its effective thereapy.

Are mouth breathing leaks large enough to show up in ResScan?

Is my pressure too low maybe, causing my mouth to open because I'm not getting enough air? Its currently at 7cm. I cant really judge by hyponeas and apneas since I have UARS and they are non-existant night to night. Would the tongue falling back in throat, cause me to open my mouth for more air if pressure is ineffective?

I only have a few days left to exchange masks so I need some suggestions. Denture or maybe a chinstrap will be my next choices possibly.

[LSAT]

Your sleep docs statement that a face mask is not effective therapy is ridiculous. A very large % of users depend on a FF mask or Hybrid. You need to use whatever mask works for you....in this case , since you "love" the nasal pillows, probably the hybrid is the way to go.

[archangle]

I believe that FFMs should never be a first choice. However, a FFM beats the heck out of a nasal mask with uncontrollable leaks. Or a nasal mask that the patient can't live with.

7 is a relatively mild pressure. However, any pressure does tend to make your mouth open.

You should always try a chinstrap before taping your mouth. If your machine quits during the night and you don't wake up, you could die from taping your mouth. You can make a crude one yourself to try it from a 3 inch non-adhesive ACE bandage wrapped under your chin and over the top of your head.

I think the 30 day return policy from the manufacturer starts over when you change masks.

If you ask the DME, he may simply exchange masks for you without talking to the doctor.

[Marychris]

Hi padron,
May i ask you,... do you know how you sleep? on your back or on your side??
i am curious abouth that, as i recognize this problem...
mary..

[Pugsy]

The addition of a chin strap might be enough to stop minor mouth leaks. Hard to say for sure since everyone is different.

Looking at your reports just how bad is the leak? How close to the red line is it? Is it short lived or happening all night?
The machine can compensate for some leaks. You don't have to have a perfect zero straight line to get adequate therapy.

[Padron192664]

Hi padron,
May i ask you,... do you know how you sleep? on your back or on your side??
i am curious abouth that, as i recognize this problem...
mary..

I sleep on my back. I'd figure that I would try to sleep on my sides to see if the mouth breathing has anything to do with the tongue falling into throat when sleeping on back. I dont know, and thats why I'm here and reluctant to go to FFM.

The addition of a chin strap might be enough to stop minor mouth leaks. Hard to say for sure since everyone is different.

Looking at your reports just how bad is the leak? How close to the red line is it? Is it short lived or happening all night?
The machine can compensate for some leaks. You don't have to have a perfect zero straight line to get adequate therapy.

My leak is about 10 L/m and under for some of the night, like an hour or so (thinking that might be mouth breathing) and then goes back to zero the rest of the night, and I dont seem to wake up to fiddle with the mask so thats why the leaks seem to be mouth related. Are you able to see mouth leaks with ResScan?? They dont seem to be minor mouth leaks, I seem to be breathing thru my mouth or so it seems upon waking. The tape gets moist and loosens enough for me to open my lips and breathe. Again I dont have really any congestion, minor sometimes in one nostril but can breathe perfectly fine during the day with mouth closed.

[Pugsy]

My leak is about 10 L/m and under for some of the night, like an hour or so (thinking that might be mouth breathing) and then goes back to zero the rest of the night, and I dont seem to wake up to fiddle with the mask so thats why the leaks seem to be mouth related. Are you able to see mouth leaks with ResScan??

Yes you can see mouth leaks (or we assume mouth leaks) on the software reports. It is reported like any other leak.
Tis really no different than a leak if the nasal pillow becomes dislodged.

An overall leak of 10 L/min shown just means that for 95 % of the time you were at or below that amount of leak.
If the software graph for leak shows not getting near that 24 L/min mark often or for prolonged periods of time the I would say for the bulk of the night your leak is in within acceptable limits and if it were me I wouldn't be going down that full face mask road. Heck, I wouldn't even be adding a chin strap. I don't strive for a zero leak number. Especially so for newbies.

I had some mouth leaking issues when I started therapy. Some pretty big issues where my leak was well over 50 L/min (for my machine that is getting close to bad, as it reports differently than yours.. probably would equate to upper teens on ResMed machine). I taped for a couple of months. Then I started getting lazy and forgetting to tape. I watched that leak line. I saw that I no longer was staying at that upper leak number.
I seemed to have learned to keep my mouth shut. I see occasional leaks that are minimal and might be mouth breathing and might just be pillow movement. Doesn't matter since well within machines ability to compensate.
I don't have dry mouth, leaks never wake me up and I am so very glad I didn't go down the full face mask road.

If I were using a ResMed machine and saw mainly 10 L/min OR less for the bulk of the night and rarely saw it near that red line, I wouldn't be trying to make it any better because it is well withing what the machine can deal with. Heck some of that leak may be pillow movement too. A perfect zero can be obtained and many do but I don't think a zero is critical to effective therapy. Now if you were reporting consistently seeing numbers up at that red line.. different story.

[Padron192664]

My leak is about 10 L/m and under for some of the night, like an hour or so (thinking that might be mouth breathing) and then goes back to zero the rest of the night, and I dont seem to wake up to fiddle with the mask so thats why the leaks seem to be mouth related. Are you able to see mouth leaks with ResScan??

Yes you can see mouth leaks (or we assume mouth leaks) on the software reports. It is reported like any other leak.
Tis really no different than a leak if the nasal pillow becomes dislodged.

An overall leak of 10 L/min shown just means that for 95 % of the time you were at or below that amount of leak.
If the software graph for leak shows not getting near that 24 L/min mark often or for prolonged periods of time the I would say for the bulk of the night your leak is in within acceptable limits and if it were me I wouldn't be going down that full face mask road. Heck, I wouldn't even be adding a chin strap. I don't strive for a zero leak number. Especially so for newbies.

I had some mouth leaking issues when I started therapy. Some pretty big issues where my leak was well over 50 L/min (for my machine that is getting close to bad, as it reports differently than yours.. probably would equate to upper teens on ResMed machine). I taped for a couple of months. Then I started getting lazy and forgetting to tape. I watched that leak line. I saw that I no longer was staying at that upper leak number.
I seemed to have learned to keep my mouth shut. I see occasional leaks that are minimal and might be mouth breathing and might just be pillow movement. Doesn't matter since well within machines ability to compensate.
I don't have dry mouth, leaks never wake me up and I am so very glad I didn't go down the full face mask road.

If I were using a ResMed machine and saw mainly 10 L/min OR less for the bulk of the night and rarely saw it near that red line, I wouldn't be trying to make it any better because it is well withing what the machine can deal with. Heck some of that leak may be pillow movement too. A perfect zero can be obtained and many do but I don't think a zero is critical to effective therapy. Now if you were reporting consistently seeing numbers up at that red line.. different story.

What about the dry mouth and tongue I experience, its not Sahara desert dry but not like if I kept my mouth shut? Would sleeping on my side inside of my back help any??

[Paula J]

I sleep on my side all the time and I still wake up with the dry mouth and tongue....so don't know if that would help you or not??

[Sheriff Buford]

Patron: after reading this tread, I didn't pick up that you use a humidifier. If you aren't, I wouldn't worry about "minor" dry mouth. I don't use my humidifier and I often wake up with what I call "minor" dry mouth. Heck, some nights I have a drool problem and with my mask, I need to remove it to deal with it. Not using a humidified is a great advantage, providing you don't really need it. Less cleaning, less to mess with and less chance of getting some airborne disease that has to do with the humid air.

Sheriff

[Padron192664]

Patron: after reading this tread, I didn't pick up that you use a humidifier. If you aren't, I wouldn't worry about "minor" dry mouth. I don't use my humidifier and I often wake up with what I call "minor" dry mouth. Heck, some nights I have a drool problem and with my mask, I need to remove it to deal with it. Not using a humidified is a great advantage, providing you don't really need it. Less cleaning, less to mess with and less chance of getting some airborne disease that has to do with the humid air.

Sheriff

Sorry, I use a humidifier at 2.5 (Resmed) which seems to keep my nose from getting congested. Below that seemed too dry and a nostril would likely plug. Even with one nostril plugged I'm still able to breathe easily thru nose.

[Pugsy]

What about the dry mouth and tongue I experience, its not Sahara desert dry but not like if I kept my mouth shut? Would sleeping on my side inside of my back help any??

It sure might. I found early on that when I end up on my back my mouth would tend to drop open more. Even now my husband reports that he hears an occasional snore when I am on my back and I have woke up with a bit of dry mouth. I look at the data and see some leaks but not huge. Certainly not enough to impair therapy. I do try to stay on my side as much as possible because of back pain. I recently broke my wrist and pretty much can't sleep on my side with the cast. My leak line is a bit ragged but still acceptable. I just shrug my shoulders and don't worry about it.

If your dry mouth is minor I wouldn't worry too much and I would just give it time to see if your body learns that it is okay to not open mouth because you aren't gasping for air anymore.

Supine sleeping can sure let gravity cause things to relax more and flop open. Sleeping on your side most of the time can sure limit the effects of gravity.

BTW I did try a full face mask back when I started therapy. I actually felt much, much worse trying to get that perfect zero leak line. I gave it away. I bow down in respect to those that have to use FFM. I would be trying to sleep standing up to prevent events if I had to use a FFM.

[Padron192664]

Anybody ever try the chin-up strips??

[CatherineF]

I am using chin-up strips. They are ok to keep my mouth shut, but not enough to get rid of mouth "puffs". I have to tape along with using the chin-up strip to avoid those puffs that wakes me up every 20sec :/ To remove those strips you need to soak it, leaving no marks this way. Btw I also have UARS.

[Padron192664]

I am using chin-up strips. They are ok to keep my mouth shut, but not enough to get rid of mouth "puffs". I have to tape along with using the chin-up strip to avoid those puffs that wakes me up every 20sec :/ To remove those strips you need to soak it, leaving no marks this way. Btw I also have UARS.

How's your treatment going? I feel a little bit better. Not as fatigued, a little better cognitively but still have brain fog everyday and dont wake up feeling "refreshed" ever. I dont really have to drag myself out of bed anymore but still feel a general malaise in the morning and all day. Things seem to slowly be getting better but I prefer the brain fog go away. Sleeping is still fragmented and I still wake up a few times to use the bathroom. I thought this thing (CPAP) was supposed to stop that. I sleep for 3 hours, wake up, sleep for 2 hours, wake up then, then I might fall back to sleep for an hour or not be able to get back to sleep. I dont wake up in a panic anymore with my heart racing but sleep is still highly irregular. Seeing a hypnotherapist on Sat to see if she could help in anyway. Appointment with Sleep doc on the 8th of August to discuss insomnia and treatments.