No insurance. Trying to do this on my own.

[Back2Front]

Hello,
Thank you in advance for any guidance you can give me.

I have suspected that I have sleep apnea for some time. However, since we don't have insurance that will cover a sleep study and can't afford the $1500 or so out of pocket, I am trying to self diagnose.

First of all, I don't understand why a prescription is required for this equipment. Is there some danger involved? It seems that it is pretty much a machine blowing air up my nose. In the end I'll have to get the prescription I guess, but for now I have borrowed a CPAP machine and mask from a relative who no longer uses them. I have used them a couple of nights now and I think that ultimately I might get some benefit. But, I think my set up may need to be tweaked a bit.

The air pressure was set at 6 which seemed too low. I have raised it to 10 now. What would an average pressure setting be? I will have to determine the proper setting by trial and error. Does anyone have any advice on how to do this?

It seems like a lot of air pressure is escaping somewhere. I have checked all the hose connections and they seem tight. The mask leaks some air but I have read that is normal. My mask uses "pillows". I bought a brand new pillow which seems to fit me correctly - no leakage around my nose. Maybe I'm expecting that the CPAP gives more breathing help than it really is supposed to, but it seems that even with the machine going, I could easily quit breathing ie. have episodes of apnea.

Could someone explain the C Flex settings? C Flex apparently is to make it easier to exhale. All of the settings seem to be the same. It would be nice if it were a little easier to exhale.

Once I get the setting right on the machine, should I start seeing immediate results? Or do positive results happen over a length of time?

Once I can determine if the CPAP is helping, I will need to get my own machine. The one I have borrowed is outmoded now I think. Could someone recommend a similar machine that is more up to date? It doesn't need to record any data or have special software. It just needs to blow air up my nose - in a controlled way of course. It would be nice if it would monitor the pressure throughout the night and alter it as necessary (automatic machine?). I think the built in humidifier is a good idea too. But, the price is the ultimate concern. Any recommendations would be helpful. I have liked the mask that I have - not bulky, the hose stays out of the way, but it does seem to leak air, as I mentioned.

I know a lot of people with sleep apnea give up on the treament. Is that because the results weren't very good and it isn't worth the effort/expense? I guess I want to believe that if I stick with it, I really will start sleeping better and feeling better. I'm tired of being tired.

Any advice is appreciated.

Thank you again.

[Omni10871]

I’m not an expert so I may be wrong but I would look at an auto titrating machine that will auto adjust for what you need.

[Back2Front]

Thank you Omni.

How does it auto titrate? Does it monitor your blood oxygen level somehow? Is that the kind of machine that you have? Would you mind telling me what it cost and where you bought it? Has it been working for you?

Can you really tell a difference in the way you feel since you have been using your machine?

Thank you again.

[Sparky223]

As stated an auto would help. In order to get one you really need a prescription. In order to get one you will need a sleep study. Or find one on craigslist.

[nanwilson]

Welcome to the club
I don't have insurance either so have paid out of pocket or traded with fellow members here. You can buy a machine on craigs list without a prescription or you can also get gently used machines on secondwind.com and cpap auction.com, but you need a prescription for both of those. Actually your regular doctor can give you a prescription if he/she is willing to do so. Please do get a data capable machine as it will do so much more for you when you are able to see what is going on with your therapy. I bought a straight cpap no data machine from our dme, then was lucky enough to buy my present machine from a member here (VERY good price). I now have the a bility to tweak my therapy daily as i can see from the data what needs doing. The machine you have an M series plus is a good machine but can't give you any data, the M series pro will supply data.
The members here are wonderful, we trade masks frequently when one os us has a mask that just won't work for us. Every face is different so what works for one doesn't work for another. Keep posting and you will get lots of answers and help from everyone. Again welcome
Good luck
Nan

[Back2Front]

Hi Sparky,
Thank you for your post. I will have to look into getting a prescription down the road I guess - or check craigslist.

In the meantime, do you like your machine? It looks like it might be the more current version of the one I am using now. It apparently does the auto titration during the night and adjusts the air pressure? What is A flex? Does it have a built in humidifier?

Would you mind telling me what you spent for your machine and where you bought it?

Do you really feel any different since you have been using it?

Thank you again.

[Pugsy]

While you "could" self treat using a non data capable machine like you have now, it would be much more effective both in time and general effectiveness if you had a data capable machine and the software to monitor progress. Without any data at all you have to go on "feelings" and that is much more subjective. You are already asking how long before you can expect to see improvement and the answer to that is that no one really knows because each person is an individual. Some people take a long time and see only very gradual improvement and others see it in one night.

Why do cpap machines require RX? Well, because the FDA says so. There are some contraindications to using cpap for some health conditions but those conditions are significant enough that you would already be under a doctors care for them. You can look them up on the internet. I don't have them handy right now.

There is no "average" pressure for cpap that covers all people. Again each person is and individual and what works for me may not work for you ideally. It all depends on your body and how much pressure is needed to keep your airway open.

If you had a machine like I have you would then also be able to get the software and see exactly what is going on.
We used this type of my machine to test my sister and her husband. She had all the classic symptoms of OSA yet at minimum pressure of 5 had zero events. Nothing. Now her husband who only had the "snores" symptoms did have some events and it was determined that a pressure of 9 would work well for him. This took all of 2 nights and the software.

If you are going to self diagnose and self treat it can be done with non data machine but it is simply much easier with the proper software. I would stick with either Respironics machine or ResMed as the software for those 2 brands are easy to obtain. The others are not so easy to get software.

If you found an M series machine that was data capable you would still need a rather pricey card reader to transfer data to the software. So I would suggest either the PR System One auto CPAP with AFlex (like I use) or the ResMed S9 Autoset.
Before buying one make sure you know what each model is and does. ResMed S8 machines also need a very pricey and hard to find card reader.

These machines aren't ventilators. They only add enough pressurized air to hold the airway open. They don't force air into the lungs like a ventilator does. And yes, the pressure has to be enough to maintain that open airway.

CFlex is Respironics exhale relief. A slight reduction in pressure accompanied by, for lack of a better word, rhythm change. CFlex of 3 rhythm feels to me like it is faster rhythm than say C Flex of 1. The most common complaint with CFlex is that "it makes me want to breathe too fast". This is usually CFlex of 3. This feature is entirely for comfort and you can play around with each setting to see which seems to allow you to breathe more normally or you can even turn it off.
Explained in technical terms here.
http://cflex.respironics.com/

If you want to self diagnose and self treat you need to start reading everything you can find on this stuff and the machines.
There is more to it than just putting on a mask and turning on the machine (if you want to do it right and you want to do it right if you are going to spend time, effort and money on this).

I see you asked about oxygen monitoring.. These machines do not monitor oxygen levels. You would need a pulse oximeter that records overnight to see nightly oxygen levels.

[Omni10871]

Thank you Omni.

How does it auto titrate? Does it monitor your blood oxygen level somehow? Is that the kind of machine that you have? Would you mind telling me what it cost and where you bought it? Has it been working for you?

Can you really tell a difference in the way you feel since you have been using your machine?

Thank you again.

My machine just auto titrates by sensing when you stop breathing then bumps the pressure up. I would love to have one that has an O2 sensor. I got mine through insurance but without that your best bet would be Craig’s list as mentioned in a prior post. Or eBay. I use to get up several times a night to use the bathroom, have dreams of drowning and wake up choking on stomach acid. All of that stopped the first night with my CPAP. Your long term memories will start coming back slowly as well if your apnea is bad enough to have affected them.

[Pugsy]

If you had a prescription you could buy a machine like mine (which I love) from cpap.com along with the humidifier for about $700. You will want the humidifier. Otherwise machine alone is around $535.

Here is an example of the daily report I can get from my machine. I use APAP because I happen to be worse in REM stage sleep and it is pretty obvious with the pressure increase at about the 90 minute mark (where REM usually starts) that sometimes I need more pressure and sometimes I don't.
APAP machines can be run in this auto mode or even straight cpap mode like you have now. So 2 machines in one.
Cpap machine and only do straight cpap pressure

This shows you the data that you can follow. Leak line is important. If leaking or mouth breathing it can impact data and thus how you feel. On this night my leak line was pretty much zero.

[Back2Front]

Hello Nan,
Thank you for your welcome. This seems like a very friendly and helpful group.

Thank you also for your suggestions regarding a machine that collects data. Can you tell me what I would expect to pay to buy the machine you now have if I bought it from an online store?

Thank you also for your suggestions of alternate equipment sources. I will check them out.

Could you please tell me if I can expect to feel noticeably better if I go through all of this experimenting? It troubles me that so many people give up on the therapy. Is it that it just didn't make that much difference in how they felt, or were they just not willing to make the effort? I know every case is different but what are your thoughts? Has it make a significant difference for you?

I feel tired when I wake up in the morning and feel like I could fall asleep at almost any given moment. I'm afraid I might fall asleep while driving.

I have a nephew who is a doctor who was diagnosed with OSA. His treatment has had life-altering benefits. Does OSA run in families?

Thank you again for your input.

[Pugsy]

Could you please tell me if I can expect to feel noticeably better if I go through all of this experimenting?

This is an unknown. Some people see improvement overnight. Some people it takes months and months and some people never do.

You need to confirm that you have OSA first before you can think that cpap will help because there are other things that can give same symptoms of OSA.

The first sign of improvement for me was that I no longer had to get up every hour on the hour to urinate. That took about 2 weeks. The other stuff like drowsiness, fatigue etc took much longer.

[nanwilson]

Hi
The machine that I have is not longer made, so you can only buy it used, but as Pugsy wrote in her reply you can check with cpap.com for the machine that she uses which runs around $ 700 with the humidifier. Pugsys machine is much like mine with some updates. If you flip through other peoples posts you will see alot of them use M series auto with a flex...same as me.
I took to therapy like a duck to water, but then I'm a pretty stubborn old lady and will not give up until I have found a way to master whatever I'm doing. I have felt tons better, so much more energy...and don't take naps anymore. I loaned my machine to a neighbor last week and he said he too felt like he had more energy...his wife thanked me as he didn't snore like a freight train anymore Everyone takes to this therapy differently, those that give up and stick their machine in the closet give up way to easily. It does take patience and persistance...case in point... Pugsy gave me a hybrid mask to try out. It took me about 3 weeks to learn to love it, I would use it for a couple of days, tweak some more, get mad & chuck it in the drawer, try it again a few nights later...then voila I hit the sweet spot and now I just love it.
If you have relative that is a doctor and is on cpap I would go to him and see what he can do for you. Perhaps he will write you a script for a data capable machine then you could go to secondwind or cpap auction and get what you need. Then you could tweak your therapy yourself and find out where you need to be pressure wise.
I would also read, read and read some more on this site..make sure you check out cpap wiki and new users notes at thge top of this screen. I read everything I could get my hands on, I HAD to take charge of my own therapy, no-one else was going to do it for me.
Nan

[Sparky223]

Hi Sparky,
Thank you for your post. I will have to look into getting a prescription down the road I guess - or check craigslist.

In the meantime, do you like your machine? It looks like it might be the more current version of the one I am using now. It apparently does the auto titration during the night and adjusts the air pressure? What is A flex? Does it have a built in humidifier?

Would you mind telling me what you spent for your machine and where you bought it?

Do you really feel any different since you have been using it?

Thank you again.

I do like my new machine, but I have only had it 2 days. Insurance is covering mine right now. It looks like on cpapauction you can get on for around 300 with humidifier.

[Rickd1]

I got mine for Cpap Auction I paid about 300 for mine you add in the hose and mask and your up and running all for about 400 here is the person that I got mine from http://www.cpapauction.com/auction-list ... flex-.html

[Back2Front]

Thank you all for your input. I will read and digest it as well as the other information on this site. If you think of something else I should know please tell me.

Good luck to each of you!