Do SSRIs influence sleep architecture significantly?

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
EricinNC
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Re: Do SSRIs influence sleep architecture significantly?

Post by EricinNC » Fri Mar 25, 2011 9:19 am

SleepingUgly wrote:You're getting some good advice here. I want to reiterate that making changes to your medications, even tapering off without your doctor's help is not a good idea. Do it under supervision.

I posted above that MY PSYCHIATRIST HAS ALREADY GIVEN ME PERMISSION, MULTIPLE TIMES, GOING BACK SEVERAL YEARS, TO TAPER OFF THE SSRI!?!

GEEEEZZZZZ I have tapered off SSRIs so many times in the past its like water going off a duck's feathers.

Eric

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EricinNC
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Re: Do SSRIs influence sleep architecture significantly?

Post by EricinNC » Fri Mar 25, 2011 9:25 am

ozij wrote:[*]
You are convinced you know everything you need to know about psychopharma.
I dont literally believe that. I say it partially tongue in cheek, partially to try to get a point thru to that girl on here who seems to think she knows a lot about psych meds that she is talking to a heavyweight. She sounds like a lightweight. Before CPAP, I used to study psychopharmacology on my own. I dont want to go there, I am past all that. I no longer do that as psychopharmacology never helped me.

My experience so far has been this: untreated OSA (no CPAP) and I can take all the psych meds there are, in all kinds of combos, at maximum doses (not just antidepressants btw) and I still feel like I want to blow my head off.

Treated OSA with CPAP (PROPER TREATMENT like I was under until recently), my mind clears, Im calm, my mood improves and Im stable, I no longer feel like blowing my head off, I dont even think about death at all.

My mind follows my OSA treatment, mind and body are not separate. Thats been my exerience.

Eric

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EricinNC
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Re: Do SSRIs influence sleep architecture significantly?

Post by EricinNC » Fri Mar 25, 2011 9:30 am

ozij wrote:Eric, here's what I hear you saying:
You were give pharmaceutical treatment for depression before your sleep apnea was diagnosed.
You were also given -- and have been taking -- large doses of benzodiazepines.
You were better when you started cpap therapy on a ResMed S8.
Your machine broke, you got an S9 - things are no longer so good.
You're disappointed in your doctors.
You are convinced you know everything you need to know about psychopharma.

I also conclude - I could be wrong of course - that you do realize some people have found help on this forum, and you post here in the hope of finding some yourself - despite your disappointing experiences.

Here are some thoughts / info I'd like to share with you -they may all be irrelevant to you, but on the off chance that they may help you, I'm taking the time to gather them. If they help, fine. If they don't - be that so. This is not posted in an attempt to convince you of anything, only to present options that may, possibly, help you.

Some of what you describe reminds of Jere's experience -- here's an example from Jere's posts.
Jere's experience
Jere wrote:Yikes! This thread reminds me of the years of being on Zoloft then Serzon and then back to Zoloft, suffering from the side-effects (the ones the doctor never tells you about). The meds were supposed to relieve my anxiety and depression (not to mention chronic insomnia). Every time I tried to get off any of them, I would get the 'zaps' (my GP had no answer to that) and getting off Serzon brought me as close to suicide as I ever want to be. Yuch.

I complained and complained that none of these medicines were helping. Finally, my psych referred me to a psychopharmacologist. After maybe two visits, and a long discussion about the psychotic behavior running through my mother's family (probably bi-polar), he put me on a low dose of lithium. I was skeptical at first (I have never been manic), but the stuff has been a great help. Anxiety is manageable and depression is almost gone. Insomnia is under control and I am off Ambien altogether. Add CPAP to the equation, and I have been sleeping at night and staying awake during the day. I don't ask for much, but being able to sleep at night and to remain awake during the day - well, it's priceless.

Doctors can be very quick to put people on antidepressants. They might work for some people, but they did not work for me (actually made things worse).

For me there is no noticeable link between OSA and anxiety. My anxiety is inherited and the OSA a coincidence.

_________________

As for weaning off antidepressants, here is what works for me. First, every step/reduction takes two weeks. First, I cut 1/4 off my dose, then another 1/4, then another 1/4 (leaving me with a 1/4). I would then cut that 1/4 in half and finally - 8 weeks later - stop altogether. Still got minor zaps and some mood instability for a few weeks. The key is to GO SLOW. Never, ever go cold turkey.
If you find this intriguing, you can search Jere's other posts here: search.php?author_id=2435&sr=posts

OSA may cause depression for some people - loss of sleep plus the physical experience of repeated choking all night long are not conducive to a sense of well being.

Here is a link to a Google Scholar search on OSA and Depression. Perhaps you can find the time - and hopefully ability to concentrate despite feeling so bad - and study some of these papers.

You may also want do some some serious study of this very informative site: http://www.benzo.org.uk. I suggest you start out with this: The Ashton Manual in order to get a sense of the seriousness and professionalism of the people.
Benzo's are mis-perscribed, are probably the most physically addictive substance known, and have terrible side effects in the long range.

I'm sure you wish you had good doctors who would co-operate with each other. I won't tell you how to go about finding them and I won't argue with you about whether it's possible or impossible.

Here's a suggestion though: If you decide to read any of the links I've given you and find hope in them, try to contact the writers and ask them for recommendations of similar minded colleagues who live close enough to you to make a consultation a viable option.

Good luck.

I already tried lithium. The current shrink told me he has several patients who are diagnosed as unipolar depressed who even take the stuff and swear by it. Unfortunately, I tried the stuff and it made me feel so much more depressed, I cant describe it. Lithium, OMG. I also tried lamictal, actually asked my psychiatrist for that...did not help.

This was all before CPAP, in the bad days.

Eric

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SleepingUgly
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Re: Do SSRIs influence sleep architecture significantly?

Post by SleepingUgly » Fri Mar 25, 2011 9:49 am

EricinNC wrote:I posted above that MY PSYCHIATRIST HAS ALREADY GIVEN ME PERMISSION, MULTIPLE TIMES, GOING BACK SEVERAL YEARS, TO TAPER OFF THE SSRI!?!
I did NOT advise you to go off your SSRI. I advised you not to make any changes in your medication, including taking more than prescribed amount, except under close supervision by your doctor. REPEAT: I am NOT advising you to go off your SSRI. REPEAT: In fact, I do NOT think you should go off your SSRI given what you are posting.
EricinNC wrote:
ozij wrote:[*]
You are convinced you know everything you need to know about psychopharma.
I dont literally believe that. I say it partially tongue in cheek, partially to try to get a point thru to that girl on here who seems to think she knows a lot about psych meds that she is talking to a heavyweight.
1. I'm not a girl, I'm a woman.
2. I do not think I know much about psychopharmacology.
3. I was just trying to help you.
Treated OSA with CPAP (PROPER TREATMENT like I was under until recently), my mind clears, Im calm, my mood improves and Im stable, I no longer feel like blowing my head off, I dont even think about death at all.
Either your pressure is no longer right for you and it's exacerbating your mental health difficulties, or you're having increased mental health difficulties and the CPAP is irrelevant, or something else is the problem. I do not believe that the difference between the S8 and S9 is a critical difference. I thought you said you were getting a sleep study, which would have been helpful in ruling out the first option and any other sleep disorders that you may have currently.

Eric, I can see that you are hurting and I wish that you weren't. My advice is to consult your sleep doctor and your psychiatrist. I'm going to have to excuse myself from participating in your threads any further, as I'm not able to help you.
Never put your fate entirely in the hands of someone who cares less about it than you do. --Sleeping Ugly

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SleepingWithUgly
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Re: Do SSRIs influence sleep architecture significantly?

Post by SleepingWithUgly » Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:19 pm

It's better to not argue with my wife. Find a new doctor.

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SleepingUgly
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Re: Do SSRIs influence sleep architecture significantly?

Post by SleepingUgly » Fri Mar 25, 2011 2:32 pm

SleepingWithUgly wrote:It's better to not argue with my wife. Find a new doctor.
If only my husband were interested enough to search for my posts, name himself "SleepingWithUgly", and demonstrate insight that it's best to do what I say! But, alas, unless this is cpaptalk's version of "If you like Pina Coladas...," I don't think this is truly my husband.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure my husband was at work at 1:19pm today... Or was he??
Never put your fate entirely in the hands of someone who cares less about it than you do. --Sleeping Ugly

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socknitster
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Re: Do SSRIs influence sleep architecture significantly?

Post by socknitster » Fri Mar 25, 2011 4:35 pm

Deleted by me.
Last edited by socknitster on Fri Mar 25, 2011 9:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

EricinNC
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Re: Do SSRIs influence sleep architecture significantly?

Post by EricinNC » Fri Mar 25, 2011 4:46 pm

socknitster wrote: What I'm saying is this: I don't think the SSRI is making you feel this way. Though none of your drugs are doing much besides helping you hold it together and providing some relief from the symptoms, they likely aren't the sole cause of your illness.



Jen

How do you know how the SSRIs are making me feel? I have taken every psychiatric drug there is almost and know what each one of them feels like. I have a formal diagnosis of SSRI induced akathisia. Do you even know what akathisia is? Its not a psychiatric illness, its a mild movement disorder that looks like anxiety or OCD. Its in my formal psych records I have.

SSRIs do make me feel jacked up, they raise my blood pressure even.

Eric

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EricinNC
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Re: Do SSRIs influence sleep architecture significantly?

Post by EricinNC » Fri Mar 25, 2011 4:55 pm

SleepingWithUgly wrote:It's better to not argue with my wife. Find a new doctor.
See what happens when you start messing with crazy people? LMAO

See what going ten years with untreated OSA did to my brain? Fried it, all those years of O2 desats. Whats left is not enough to make a brain the size of my pet turkey's brain.

Eric

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