Calling all Ontario Users

[Hose_Head]

I wholeheartedly second the "Nays" of the other writers re: Medigas. The very worst service I have ever gotten ANYWHERE for ANYTHING !! (Here in Oshawa, Ontario, but it seems it applies everywhere.) The sales person was only interested in trying to rid the shelves of the oldest junk (at a very high price) when it came to masks, and was totally unhelpful and even rude when I asked to try another mask. She even tried to stop me from getting a data capable CPAP machine. It seemed like the doctor was in cahoots with Medigas (because they had provided me with a loaner machine), but I found out he wasn't, when I complained to him about the sales rep, saying I was willing to give Medigas a rental fee for the loaner just in order to get rid of them and then be free to purchase my CPCP equipment ELSEWHERE. He was surprised and willing to cut her loose ! It seems that the docs want you to purchase at these places simply for 2 reasons, firstly because they provide a free loaner and secondly because the docs think that a new user needs personalized service and support. Hah! No personalized service and support whatsoever....just rudeness ! If only the docs knew the underhanded tricks they try to pull, all with THEIR own agenda foremost (get rid of the old machines BUT AT THE SAME HIGH PRICE AS THE BETTER/NEWER MODELS !!! They have the integrity of corporate Canada.......which is to say NO INTEGRITY AT ALL !! I now need other supplies, new mask, year's supply of cushions for old and new mask, tubing, headgear, etc. etc. and you can bet I'm going to take torontoCPAPguy's advice and purchase through the auctions. When enough people do that, the greed of the local DMEs everywhere who presently enjoy a corrupt monopoly (with the govenment ADP Program's approval --wasting our tax dollars once again) will either be forced out of business (hopefully) or at least will lose enough of their market share to lower their ghastly and greedy prices. Let's ALL stop being apathetic Canadians -- sheep led to economic slaughter !! There is utterly no reason (other than greed) that prices for all CPAP related items are so much higher in Canada than in the USA. Our dollar is at par, or actually a little stronger the the US dollar. Think about it all, carefully.

Many good points, Heatherbelle. I agree that there is a sorry lack of professionalism in most DMEs.

I'd like to make a few points:

Firstly, an involved, caring and helpful DME is important to the success of cpap therapy. Far too many people fail in it, largely because of a DME who is only motivated by profit. It is possible to be successful with cpap without a helpful DME, but it requires one to be motivated and involved with it. Not everyone is. Members of this forum are the exception, of course, but unfortunately, we are a tiny minority of people who have been diagnosed with SA.

The free loaner that DME's provide in Ontario seem's to be an Ontario-only phenomenon. I've not heard of this practice elsewhere (I'm sure someone on the forum will set me straight ) I believe that it's intended to allow a patient, once diagnosed in the initial sleep study, to become accustomed to cpap for a few weeks in advance of going for his/her titration study. This way, it's more likely that the patient will be able to sleep in the titration study and that useful data can be harvested from it. From the DME's perspective, there seems to be an expectation that they will then close the deal with sale of equipment later-on. The fact that some patients will not buy from them is a risk they have to take; I doubt that this happens very often.

For those who are interested in a Canadian source of equipment at what may be competitive prices, I suggest you check out https://www.clinicalsleep.com/ in Vancouver. They will sell online and will ship free within Canada. You can even get Resmed products from them. I suggest you check them out and compare their prices with those from the USA online suppliers.

Note that I have no affilitation with clinicalsleep.com and to date, I've not purchased anything from them. I do plan to order a new mask, soon. I'd be interested in hearing of people's experiences with them and of course, I'll share my experience once I've bought my supplies.

[dilbert]

I went for a sleep study in Brampton Ontario. Had to wait 3 weeks to hear the result. Was told I was moderate 27/hr and recommended a cpap. He gave me a list of 3 providers I could get it from and said I could go elsewhere if I prefered. I checked all 3 and found one that sold resmed. Called Drs office and they faxed the prescription to the store. Got the machine right away.

[tschultz]

My story is well documented in my threads but I'll summarize for you.

I had my original sleep study done in Mid November and had to push to get the follow-up pushed because I was feeling so badly and in mid December finally got to see the sleep doctor. I was told I have severe sleep apnea with an AHI of 119 and during my study I had stopped breathing for up to 62 seconds. I was quickly booked for a CPAP titration study a few days later and was told I should expect the results in 4-6 weeks. After feeling completely drained and going downhill over Xmas I pushed, and had my family doctor push to try and expedite the titration results which I finally did get on Jan 5th of 2011.

I had called a couple of local DME's and no-one could see me until the following week but I had been lucky to have noticed a newly opened company in the same building as my family doctor and found they did handle CPAP and carried the ResMed equipment (which I had already identified was the equipment I wanted) and was able to book an appointment that same day. I was delighted to discover that the trial machine would be the ResMed S9 AutoSet and I was setup and sent home to start.

After only a week into my treatment I wound up taking charge of my own settings after waiting for what I considered too long for the sleep doctor to approve a much needed pressure increase. Initially my DME was concerned but felt comfortable that I had already done my homework and would keep her in the loop. During the next couple of months we had a number of discussions about my progress and my feelings of how the whole system is setup intentionally keeping patients in the dark about even their own readings. I was VERY lucky to find that she had opened her own company after working in the industry for the past 26 years and feeling too handcuffed.

I had some battled with the sleep clinic and have never been able to actually meet with my sleep doctor since the initial consultation but have continued to keep them in the loop via email. When it came time for my final prescription I was simply told I did not qualify for APAP, after being told that the sleep doctor was willing to write a letter and make sure I got the equipment I wanted. I decided to bypass the bureaucratic ADP process and pay out of pocket for the S9 Autoset as I truly felt it was the best choice for me and had lots of supporting data proving it. I was much more concerned with my long term health than I was the money. Sure, I was miffed that at least part of this should have been paid for by ADP and/or my insurance company(who would have paid 80%), but because ADP would not pay anything my insurance company refused as well.

During my research I was told that I should stay away from both VitalAire and MediGas, and later found that you really do need to talk to others who have dealt specifically with the exact office that you are thinking of using. It also seems that in MANY cases the sleep labs are tightly affiliated with one or two "preferred" suppliers because of what seems like back room deals. Almost everyone seems only interested in making money and not really the patient. If you are lucky enough to find a tech that cares, most likely the company he/she works does not care once they get paid - a sad state but all too common.

Pricing in Ontario is all structured around the ADP payment schedule and quite frankly is inflated as compared to what it should really be. There are ways to get things on-line, even from a Canadian supplier, but you need to verify the insurance requirements first. Hose_Head already posted a very good Canadian on-line supplier, if you want ResMed quotes just call or email them.

You do have the right to take your prescription to whomever you want, but will likely have to push the sleep doctor to write it for the company you want. It seems that most write the prescription(s) to a specified company, a practice which I disagree with but is very common based on those I have spoken to. Having already started a home trial with one company may complicate things but do remember that this is YOUR health and it is OK to fight for what you feel is right.

No matter what you decide INSIST on a fully data capable machine, and ideally something using an SD card and one for which you can "find" software for. Even if you don't need/want it now, who knows what will happen over the coming years. Without the data you, anyone one else, have no way of determining if treatment is actually working as it should, just feeling "better" may not be enough.

After my experiences I have already started a letter campaign to several medical and government agencies hoping to get the attention of someone in a position to change things and that cares enough to tackle this whole industry but I fear that is going to be a long uphill battle at best. So far I have received no responses back from anyone, but I will not let that stop me.

Read my posts or feel free to PM me if you want more details.

[heatherbelle]

I'm having trouble responding to any of the replies to my post. Keep getting message "Try an alternative username ??????????

[heatherbelle]

Hi Hose_Head,
Thanks for your reply to my post/rant....got a little carried away, didn't I ? (Ha! Don't know how to get the smilies on here to work or I'd insert one.) I had already been in touch with Clinical Sleep in Vancouver a few weeks ago and just 4 days ago again. Yes they're excellent and I intend to deal with them exclusively (or almost exclusively) in the future. They have fantastic prices. It's a shame that Resmed doesn't allow them to actually show Resmed products online (to protect Resmeds DME distributors, and their ungodly prices). But Clinical Sleep's service is so excellent that they are sending me the little plastic sizing gauge thingy specifically for the Quattro FX !! (And I am not yet an established customer with them.....talk about nice......especially after my bad/sad experience with Medigas.) I just wish they had a "30-day Return Insurance", like the USA online businesses. That is the only reason I was trying to find a decent DME locally.....the 30-day tiral period. If I can find a mask (possibly even 2) that suits me, I am willing to pay the extra (above an online price) to a DME who is helpful in that process. Their commitment and their time is their livelihood and I understand and appreciate that fact. A committted and knowledgeable RRT contracted to a DME that gives personalized service (and realizes that this is NOT a simple "here you go, now pay me and get lost process") is very much worth the additional cost involved......and it they provide the kind of service that fosters loyalty for future puchases......they deserve that too. I had a call returned from a Toronto DME store that sounded like she could be that kind of person, and (although leary after my Medigas experience) I am going to give her a chance and see. Unlike the (other) local DMEs this outfit ACTUALLY HAS STOCK ! I'll happily drive to Toronto....but I'll never cross the local Medigas doorstop again. Bad unprofessional sales staff/bad DMEs can only reinforce the 50% drop-out rate of CPAP users, and they'll never foster any loyalty in me ! Thanks for your comments.

[heatherbelle]

No matter what you decide INSIST on a fully data capable machine, and ideally something using an SD card and one for which you can "find" software for. Without the data you, anyone one else, have no way of determining if treatment is actually working.
After my experiences I have already started a letter campaign to several medical and government agencies hoping to get the attention of someone in a position to change things and that cares enough to tackle this whole industry but I fear that is going to be a long uphill battle at best. So far I have received no responses back from anyone, but I will not let that stop me. [/quote]
The issue of a data capable machine is one of the battles I had with Medigas last May (2010) when I started CPAP therapy. The neandrathal woman there wanted to stick me with a Resmed S8 Escape and I wanted a data capable machine (Resmed S8 Elite) with AT LEAST the capacity to provide me with morning figures re: my AHI, HI, AI, Leak Rate, etc. She didn't think patients should be provided with this sort of information, and I didn't give a hoot about her opinions. She wouldn't shut up about it and so I indulged in a little rant of my own, telling her she ought to join the 21st century.....and that CPAP is not exactly rocket science that patients are incapable of understanding. Oblivious to my comments, she still continued her diatribe. I packed up her "loaner" machine and mask and dumped them off at her office the next day (she hadn't arrived yet for the day). When I had the doctor write on the prescription that it was to be an Elite machine, she was not a happy camper. She had no choice but to comply, but was seething and unable to hid it. She even rudely told me that I might have a data capable machine, but she wasn't setting it up so I could access the data. I told her no problem.......it's the 21st century remember and anything is available on the internet.....I have the Clinician's manual ! Haven't seen her since.....won't ever go to Medigas for ANYTHING ! What a farce this whole process is !