Using FF mask and sleep apnea

[Pugsy]

Do you "tinker" with the settings on your machine, do you change the pressure settings on your machine?

We suggested the software so that you could see what might be going on in relation to why you don't feel so good.
Using the software to view reports is not doing anything but looking. Some of us have changed our pressures on our own but if you aren't comfortable doing that, then that is okay. There is no law being broken by someone looking at their reports or changing their pressure if they wish.

So if you want to just look but not touch, that is okay. It might give you and idea what is going on, like leaks maybe affecting things.

[Big Stevoreno]

If you are experiencing a great deal of difficulty with the mask sealing and all the sounds, it is possible that leaks or just the sounds are waking you and disrupting sleep. If the leaks are significant enough they can compromise therapy and allow events to happen.
Either can impact how you feel in general.

That's probably what's happening but my biggest complaint right now is the dryness of my mouth and tongue. Do you have any idea how hard it is to talk first thing in the morning as soon as you wake up from several hours of CPAP use with a very dry mouth? I keep a 16.9 ounce bottle of Ozarka spring water near my bed and the first thing I do after I take my mask off and shut my machine off is to drink that entire bottle of spring water which is good.

[Big Stevoreno]

Do you "tinker" with the settings on your machine, do you change the pressure settings on your machine? My sleep doctor told me to never do that, if he decided that my pressure needed to be changed he would write an order and forward it to Apria whose RT would then come out and reset my machine. I'm at "18" right now, I would hate to think about going to a higher pressure, "18" is high enough on my nose. I would think I would have to undergo another 2 night sleep study first before my sleep doctor would agree to order a pressure change. My last 2 night study was done in the fall of 2007.

You bet I do!. If my 84 year old mother with dementia is capable of testing her sugar and adjusting her insulin I am surely capable of reading my AHI and adjusting my pressure accordingly! Plus my sleep doc thinks that is great. Yours seems bent on making lots of money - a two night study! Why ? they can titrate in one. They can even send you home with a machine with bells and whistles and have it done at home.

Come on, you mean sleep studies can be done at home? Man has the technology changed or what? I didn't know that, impressive. My area is still recovering from the aftermaths of Hurricane Katrina, here is one military hospital in my town which I can't go to because I'm not in the military, there's also a large V.A. hospital which has almost been totally rebuilt since Katrina, I can't go there eiher, there is only "one" privately owned hospital in my town which closed down their sleep lab right after Katrina, the hospital where my test was done back in 2007 is now closed but I can go to the next town about 15 miles to my west where 2 nice hospitals are still open, privately run sleep lab facilities on my entire coast you can count on one hand. Now if I lived in Houston, Texas that would be a different story because I had to evacuate there after Katrina and stayed there for over a month. That's why I'm not planning to undergo a new sleep study anytime soon. Heck there's still only "one" grocery store in my end of town serving over 40,000 residents but in 2012 Super Wal-Mart is coming to town!

[Bons]

Have you tried a mask with a chin rest? Fisher and Paykel make them, also Hans Rudolf and Legend MD.

[Big Stevoreno]

Do you "tinker" with the settings on your machine, do you change the pressure settings on your machine?

We suggested the software so that you could see what might be going on in relation to why you don't feel so good.
Using the software to view reports is not doing anything but looking. Some of us have changed our pressures on our own but if you aren't comfortable doing that, then that is okay. There is no law being broken by someone looking at their reports or changing their pressure if they wish.

So if you want to just look but not touch, that is okay. It might give you and idea what is going on, like leaks maybe affecting things.

Now what you just said makes me feel very comfortable, I'm not as experienced as some others here who feel very comfortable "tinkering" with their machines. How long do these newer machines last? I received mine early in 2008, it should last for how long? Ten years? More than ten years?

[Big Stevoreno]

Have you tried a mask with a chin rest? Fisher and Paykel make them, also Hans Rudolf and Legend MD.

With a chin rest? Is that different than a chin strap? When Apria's RT was out here a few months ago she brought out several samples of FF masks, one even went up under my chin but it wouldn't seal good. The best of the bunch that I tried that day and decided to keep was the ResMed Ultra Mirage FF mask, the mask I'm still using today. It took awhile to be able to click those mask straps into place but with practice I've got it down good because if I don't do it quick my machine turns on as soon as I start to breathe in my mask. Just imagine a pressure of "18" blowing in your face while you're trying to secure your mask, not fun.

[Pugsy]

Now what you just said makes me feel very comfortable, I'm not as experienced as some others here who feel very comfortable "tinkering" with their machines. How long do these newer machines last? I received mine early in 2008, it should last for how long? Ten years? More than ten years?

Your M Series machine has now been replaced by a Phillips Respironics PR System One model. I have a M Series APAP. So these aren't really all that old in the grand scheme of things. Barring mechanical failure they can last for many years. Insurance won't usually replace until they are least 5 years old unless the physician can come up with a medical need. I guess we can sort of say we have "last years" model even though it is more than a year.

The new machines address humidity in a different manner than our M Series machines. I don't have any personal experience to draw upon to even know if they might give you some relief. There are some people here that have used both and maybe they could comment on if it was possible.

If you aren't comfortable "tinkering" with machine, that is just fine. I was only trying to offer a way to investigate possible causes of maybe problematic therapy since you mentioned feeling lousy in general. Your machine offers minimal information on the screen. Only averages and thus not super detailed. Should you want to get the software and investigate (look only) you could always take what you might be concerned about to your physician.

Regarding the dryness issue. Different mask maybe? Something that might support the chin better yet still give you the full face mask? Something to help keep mouth closed... I have always used the nasal pillow only mask so I cannot offer any ideas along those lines. I learned to keep my big mouth shut after 3 months of taping. I just couldn't/wouldn't go down the FF mask road for my own reasons, not unlike your feelings about tinkering. I just simply didn't want to do it. That is why I respect your reluctance to "tinker". I am all for educating a person within their own comfort level.

[DoriC]

Big Steve, sometimes these FF mask cushions need to be replaced more often if they get leaky. My husband uses the UMFF and sometimes the mask is great for 6-8months and the next replacement needs to be replaced in 3-4months. Medicare allows us a new mask every 3months but we don't take advantage of that unless it's necessary. I don't know how a high pressure such as yours would affect the durability of your cushion. We have the software so we can see the leak rates and how they affect the AHI.

[Big S]

Big Stevorino, I assume you are still having a dry mouth issue? Your post was in November last year, I think. Anyway, I have the Mirage Quattro and early on had severe dry mouth. I really thought my teeth could fall out of my mouth if they weren't super glued to my cheeks from the dryness. Also, forget any tongue action, and don't try to move it, it might crack off. A mouthful of water was never enough to rehydrate the unrecognizable tissue. Failure was a real option with this problem. I don't know if I ever really figured it out but it now seems to be gone most of the time. The first thing I learned was to not fall asleep on my back. For me, this guaranteed Sahara mouth at night. Without changing anything else, the first time I slept on my side with the MQ, my dry mouth turned to slightly gummy mouth. I could live with this. I also now use Biotene mouthwash before retiring and before reentering bed if I should have to get up during the night. This also helps but doesn't come close to lasting all night. It may just last long enough to get to sleep. The last thing I found out was that there actually is a zone of temperature and humidity that works for most pap users. I have found it in the literature and it coincides with what you will read in this site. The advice you will always get is change the number up or down depending how it works for you. Everyone is different, you have to try a few different settings. Five might be too high for you. My first machine was a Respironics PRS1 and the temperature of the water in the humidifier was in the neighborhood of 98 to 99 deg F the night I measured it for a setting of "5". The temperature at the hose exit was quite a bit cooler at 81 deg F for that night (a very comfortable fall night). I was obsessed about this because I was having some other problems with the machine and I needed to verify what was happening with it. So, try sleeping on your side, rinse with Biotene, and try different settings on your humidifier. Good luck and I hope you can lick your chops or kiss your loved ones in the morning.

[ozij]

Hi Steve,
18 is a lot of air blowing into your mouth and drying it - prewumable because you need to breathe through your mouth.
In addition to all the above suggestions, you can:
Get an external, standalone humidifier- it contains more water and may be more effective: https://www.cpap.com/productpage/fisher ... fier.html/

There are heated hoses too.

[wm_hess]

Hi Steveorino

I'm not real experienced with Sleep Apnea but a couple of things I noticed in your comments.

I also use a Mirage FF mask, and the breaking wind sound (I've seen them referred to as mouth burps/farts) is indicating you're breaking the seal. I found I was also constantly readjusting my mask during the night because of the leaking.

I found when I was relaxing into sleep (I tend to sleep on my back), my jaw would drop, changing the geometry of my face. Change the geometry, and lose the seal. Readjust straps, and try again. I was cranking that puppy down so hard, I was killing the bridge of my nose! I tried the PAP Cap with chin strap and it worked good for me and my dropping jaw.

My machine does not record anything but compliance data, so I got a recording pulse oximeter. I'm still learning from others what all I need to look at, but at least I can see when I'm having a problem. It shows me when I'm experiencing low oxygen saturations. When I see quite a few of them, I know that I'm experiencing a lot of leaking while sleeping. I then can work on the mask fittings, replacing the cushions etc, to reduce them, and improving the quality of my sleep.

Hope some of these and others suggestions help you get a good nights sleep!

-Bill

[Big S]

In revisiting this thread, I certainly agree with other responders who have suggested this remedy. Fixing leaks and making sure they cannot occur would be my number one priority. You will know when you have achieved this when you no longer feel like a bad instrument in a corner street band and/or do not feel like you are sleeping in a wind tunnel. The older I get, the less I know.

[DRRTones]

Is there a chin strap that would work with the Respironics full face mask? I'm having problems with my mouth opening during sleep that have resulted in apneas.

[jeja]

I use a FFM and still breathe through mouth. Dentist suggested a mouth guard, so I bought a mouth guard in the dental section of the drugstore. It is working most nights, although I occasio0nally wake up with it sticking out of my lips. Probably a proper one from a mold/dentist would work better I suspect that high pressure is pushing mouth open. Get the mouth guard and try lowering pressure. You are trying to get the best of both worlds.

Good luck

[Bons]

Yes, a mask with a chin rest is very different from a chin strap. Masks with chin rests let you open your mouth to breathe. The face mask you use ends just below your mouth, so if you open your mouth too much your bottom lip goes below the rim of the mask. The ones with chin rests fit below your chin, so your mouth can open to breathe but (in theory, most times) don't go below the mask.

Chin straps are mostly to prevent someone from breathing through their mouths. Because of sinus issues I often mouth breathe so I use the chin support masks.

Look at the Hans Rudolf 7600, the Fisher Paykel Flexifit 431 and 432 and Forma, or do a Google for the Legend (made by Legend MD and not widely distributed). If you want chin support and nasal pillows, Inova hybrid does that.