Im a "stomach sleeper"! What Mask should I use?

[Zigs]

Slartybartfast, does that Opus 360 mask you have listed work well for you? I'm a side/stomach sleeper (no matter how I start out sleeping, I wake up on my side and/or stomach). That mask looks interesting and minimally invasive - and it also is inexpensive online - does it work well?

[HoseCrusher]

TorontoCPAPguy, You may want to check the information on magnesium. Many people are able to control afib by adjusting their magnesium intake. Green leafy vegetables are a good source of magnesium, but sometimes you need more and have to take a supplement. Stay away from magnesium oxide. The body does not absorb it well and it acts more like a laxative than a beneficial source of magnesium. Magnesium malate helps with both magnesium levels and provides malic acid which aids in overall health.

[torontoCPAPguy]

TorontoCPAPguy, You may want to check the information on magnesium. Many people are able to control afib by adjusting their magnesium intake. Green leafy vegetables are a good source of magnesium, but sometimes you need more and have to take a supplement. Stay away from magnesium oxide. The body does not absorb it well and it acts more like a laxative than a beneficial source of magnesium. Magnesium malate helps with both magnesium levels and provides malic acid which aids in overall health.

I thank you for that suggestion and it occurs to me that my daily super multivitamin was nixed around the time that they noted the atrial fib. On the other hand, the cardiologist cautions against too much (without being specific) green vegetables as it may have too much Vitamin K which will effect the Warfarin/Cumedin/Rat Poison blood thinners that I am taking to prevent the Atrial Fib killer - blood clotting in the heart transported to a restricted thoroughfare like an artery in the brain, heart, lungs. Caught between a rock and a hard place but am going to check this out to be sure - I have learned more on here, all taken with a grain of salt, than ANYWHERE else including MD's to be honest. Thanks again.

[torontoCPAPguy]

Slartybartfast, does that Opus 360 mask you have listed work well for you? I'm a side/stomach sleeper (no matter how I start out sleeping, I wake up on my side and/or stomach). That mask looks interesting and minimally invasive - and it also is inexpensive online - does it work well?

Everyone is different. I have an Opus 360 and it doesn't work worth a darn for ME. I have a close friend that has one and has been using it for some time and swears by it. Remember... it is what works for YOU. For my way of thinking and from my personal experience, if you are a stomache sleeper you can use any pillow you want or put your head in a vice to keep it steady... it's only a full face mask with proper headgear and a forehead brace that is going to make a good seal and maintain it under varying external forces from smooshing into a pillow. I have an entire box full of nasal pillows, nasal masks and full face masks and I can assure you that after spending a thousand dollars on experimentation with all of the RECOMMENDED masks from online here, I keep coming back to the Mirage Activa LT and the Mirage Quattro FFM. Just works for ME.

[Mary T]

Hey! Maybe people like to sleep on their stomach coz it FEELS GOOD! I didn't even need a Ph.D to figure that one out

[rested gal]

Quite a few tummy sleepers have found that Aeiomed's Headrest nasal pillows mask works especially well for stomach sleeping.

When you see that mask in pictures, you'd say, "No WAY! That THING on top of the head!!!!???"


Despite how it looks, the entire mask is very lightweight and unobtrusive. The exhaust is located up above the eyebrows and vents straight up, like a little chimney. A person could literally sleep stomach down, with face buried in the bed pillow, and not block the exhaust. Great for sleeping in any position -- tummy, sides, back. Because the exhaust vents straight up, it doesn't blow against the bed covers, the pillow, the arm of a person sleeping on his/her side... or blow against a bed partner.

The Headrest has been my favorite mask for years. With or without its headgear. I do use a homemade strap to cradle the nasal pillows and steady them, as I'm a toss'n'turn sleeper.

Here's a picture of how it looks with the headgear removed and a couple of homemade straps attached:



Many discussions about this mask that most DMEs have never heard of, and many pictures of modifications this forum's "lab rats" have made to customize it:

LINKS to HeadRest nasal pillows mask topics (same mask has had other names: Aeiomed Aura, then Headrest, then Invacare Twilight NP, then back to Headrest again.)
viewtopic.php?t=3098

[torontoCPAPguy]

I will offer my suggestion one more time; from the length of time it is taking you to get a mask and live with it I have to believe that you may not be very serious about this. Rest assured that it is a serious affliction. People DIE from it. I repeat, people DIE from it. It is now closely associated with hearth arrhythmias and Atrial Fibrillation and has been for some time. It kills you dead. Get serious if you have not done so already and get the issue resolved today.

I have played around with 50 different masks and for those that 'smoosh' the pillow there is only one that I have found that works in any form and that is the Mirage Quattro full face mask and it will last you about six months or so and you will then need to buy a new one or at least a new plastic pillow part. It works great... smoosh away. If you want to start buying special pillows and chopping away be my guest as that is your total perogative; but this thing works out of the box. I have six of them. Four are in use and on a rotating basis; I keep them washed in soapy hot water (odor free) with hospital grade disinfectant - soak for 20 minutes or so and then I use a soft bristle paint brush to clean the hard to get to parts, rinse thoroughly and let stand to dry. I also wash my hose once every couple of weeks as well as the humidifier chamber. So far so good.

One needs to not only be aware of lung infection which the body may overcome quickly but also need to be aware of infection around the diaghram and heart which are inperceptable and yet can cause life threatening arhythmias.

I am at that place right now and am supplementing away, etc. Next stage is surgery and I WANT to avoid that if I can. 80% of Americans are dehydrated and short on Magnesium, Potassium and Taurine. Vitamin C in large doses calm the heart and inflammation. Read and learn. Don't read and sit back and wait for your time. Check out the TV commercials that pay $15K in life insurance and don't require any medical exam.

You should be able to pick up the Quattro masks for $50 online and the Respironics S9 Auto for about $550. If your nightime O2 level runs below 90% you need an oxygen concentrator; gosouthernMD.com and others sell them for about $600 delivered. I have a backup for both my APAP and my oxygen concentrator.... if you are not getting sufficient oxygen to your liver and kidneys you are not doing them any big favours. It WILL, make no mistake about this, it WILL kill you dead eventially. And the feeling of sucking in air through a straw is not very nice, I can assure you. That is a byproduct of atrial fibrillation asides from stroke, blood clots, thrombosis, etc. And lots of other good stuff. So make sure you are getting your sleep, sleeping well and getting enough oxygen circulating to your vital organs... they are what keeps you alive and without healthy kidneys, liver and heart you are doomed to a slow and insidious demise at best.

And for what? for the sake of trying a Quattro full face mask ? C'mon man, get serious. Stop screwing around.

[pbsd]

I am using a comfort full 2 ff mask. I to am having leak issues. I just ordered a product called the quietus cpap liner. I am hoping this will take care of the problem. Does anyone have experience with these liners. If it works it may help everyone with ff masks

[torontoCPAPguy]

I am using a comfort full 2 ff mask. I to am having leak issues. I just ordered a product called the quietus cpap liner. I am hoping this will take care of the problem. Does anyone have experience with these liners. If it works it may help everyone with ff masks

What pressure do you generally run at? I have no issues with my Quattro at 14+ cmH2O but I have to lay down and adjust the bands while laying down in order to get a solid seal. I also find that I have to wipe it down with a wet nap every AM in order to get the grease/oil off it and off my face before retiring. Seals well under these circumstances but at higher pressures I can see where a plethora of face farts would be my punishment.

[SleepyInCa]

Laws of Physics that keep your mouth closed with a nasal mask:

The Venturi Effect. The air blowing down your nasal passages and going past the rear of the mouth causes a drop in pressure in your mouth.

This negative pressure really does hold most (not all) CPAP users' mouths closed (including mine). I can force my mouth open, but unless something (like blocked nasal passages during a cold, or my headgear coming loose) slows or stops the CPAP's air, the suction from the back of my throat keeps my mouth closed all night.

Anyone who tells you otherwise doesn't understand the Physics of air flow and the Venturi Effect. Having used a CPAP for over ten years now, I can attest to the mouth-closing power of a properly functioning CPAP machine. The more CPAP pressure, the more difficult it is to open my mouth with the CPAP on. At the typical 11-4 mmHg that I'm at, it requires considerable effort to open my mouth.

Now - there are differences in CPAP settings and physiology that can make the negative pressure that is generated insufficient to keep some CPAP users' mouths closed. That's why some people are prescribed chin straps or full-face masks.

[jimnsc]

Thanks, Sleepyinca, (sp?) for letting me know why I am registering very few puffs through my mouth now-a-days. I have just switched from nasal pillows masks to nasal masks and have never enjoyed better all around results. I also have periodic A.Fib., but not since starting Cpap treatment 8 mos. ago. I was referred by my Cardiologist for the sleep study, by the way.

Long story short, I went from the Swift LT to the F&P Acclaim II, the cheapest F&P nasal mask cpapdotcom - $42, I believe. It does well on my back, side and stomach. I just noticed this thread today and did not read every page so I hope I'm not repeating someone else. I also have the F&P Opus 360. the HC405 and a HC407 on the way. Forever experimenting - me!

Thanks again - I couldn't figure out why my exhale puffs have become so rare. As information, although the F&P nasal masks are all cheap the quality is outstanding! My pressure is almost a straight line (8.5), my leak rate is outstanding and my AHI's are the best I've had yet - all while flipping from side to side and back to stomach. There is an adjustment period of a few days to find your sweet spot on headgear adjustment. The trick is to adjust the bottom strap first and then the forehead to just where it is not leaking.

[Guest]

This is the ‘guest’ sleep tech. I generally do not post on patient forums. However, this forum came up on a search I was doing. When I went to the site, this thread was at the top of the list so I thought I might respond to offer some help. I knew I did not intend to continue posting so there was no reason in my mind to register. With all the responses this thread received though I felt compelled to respond.

If the members of this forum work hard at trying to have readers avoid sleeping on their back, then there is a widespread fundamental misunderstanding of PAP therapy. Obstructive sleep apnea is just that, a physical obstruction in your airway that occurs during sleep that causes you to stop breathing. The soft tissue surrounding the airway collapses and it is as if you are choking. The therapy to correct that obstruction is PAP. The force of the air moving through the airway holds the airway open, essentially removing the obstruction.

How much pressure do you need to keep your airway open? That is determined by your physician based on your PAP titration sleep study. The key to getting the best results is to do the PAP titration study while lying on your back. If the PAP machine can keep your airway open while lying on your back when your sleep apnea is at its worst, then the pressure is correct. Because the PAP machine has corrected the obstruction and the airway is now open, there is no need to avoid sleeping on your back. It’s as if you do not have sleep apnea while using the PAP machine. This is why I stated that sleeping in any position is generally not an issue for people with sleep apnea who are on PAP therapy.

Some might have pulmonary disorders that complicate their sleep apnea and they have to avoid supine sleep out of necessity. Some have pain issues and also have to avoid supine sleep out of necessity. Others might have positional sleep apnea, which is very mild sleep apnea usually presenting in supine sleep (generally not most patients).Others though, after starting PAP therapy have had physiological changes that affect their sleep apnea. Perhaps the body made an adjustment after staring PAP. Perhaps some have put on or lost weight. Or some might be taking medications that have an effect on sleep apnea. In these cases the physician might find it more practical to advise you to avoid supine sleep. However, if you feel as though you cannot sleep on your back that may indicate that you are not set at a pressure that is adequate to keep your airway open. What position you sleep in should be your preference and not a necessity. Prone (stomach) sleep is often not recommended due obvious issues but also it does not allow the carbon dioxide to properly escape the mask. Prolonged carbon dioxide in the blood can cause headaches, which is why many sleep apnea patients had headaches before they started on PAP therapy.

For those who mentioned about full face masks the question I would pose to you is ‘how do you breathe while you are awake?’ If you generally do not mouth breath during wake you should not be mouth breathing during sleep. Again, the PAP machine normalizes your breathing. That is why a full face mask is usually not necessary. When your PAP machine is set at a pressure that is adequate for you, then a nasal mask is all that is warranted. The force of the air travelling through the airway pushes the soft tissue at the back of the throat closed, cutting off its exit through your mouth. So you will not mouth breath. The full face mask also has been proven in many cases to push the jaw slightly backwards which often causes obstruction of the airway, thus causing worse sleep apnea. The full face mask also requires typically between 6-7cm of additional pressure to compensate for that. So higher pressures, potential worsening of your apnea, and comfort issues are reasons to avoid full face masks if at all possible. For persistent mouth breathers, which is a small fraction of patients (many patients think they are but are not in actuality) a full face mask might be appropriate. However, that is a last resort and again most people breathe normally using the nasal mask when PAP is set at an adequate pressure.

I hope this explains more clearly my previous posts. I wish you all good sleep health.

Thank you. After reading through all the novice laymen opinions, I'm glad to hear your posts. I appreciate your experience and expert opinion. Shame on the people who treated you poorly here and didn't respect your expertise. The truth is, I don't want to sleep on my back, because I'm afraid to. Something in my brain tells me, if I sleep on my back I will suffocate (Read: I suffered from Sleep Apnea for years, and I've adapted by sleeping on my stomach). I was beginning to believe that there was no mask, no method, no way to overcome Sleep Apnea as a stomach sleeper. The bottom line is, if I sleep on my stomach, my mask will leak, the bridge of my nose will be bruised, and I will wake up with headaches due to re-breathing carbon dioxide because of blocked ventilation. It seems there is a choice. I can choose to reduce Apnea by sleeping on my stomach without a mask, fight with a mask and suffer the consequences while I continue to sleep on my stomach with a mask, or sleep on my back and be totally relieved from the effects of Apnea and mask down issues. The nasal pillow is going to be especially hard, I think, because I'm at a level 16 pressure (I guess that's bad). My sleep test showed that I was dropping to 78% oxygen levels while sleeping. Even so, after using a PAP machine for the past two weeks, I was ready to give it up. Fighting with the mask, the leaks, the headaches, the noise, etc has made me feel worse in the morning: headaches, neck and back aches, dry mouth, etc. Using a PAP is not as easy as the doc made it seem. I'm going to give your expertise some weight and try to sleep on my back. Thanks again.

[DavidCarolina]

This is definitely an interesting topic. In all fairness, MOST of our sleep docs have specifically told us NOT to sleep on our backs. We didnt make that up on our own here. Ive even been given sales pamphlets on tubal backpacks that prevent backsleeping by Sleep Doctors.

For my 1.5 years on cpap I'd always been told to AVOID sleeping supine as it led to obstruction. But I was a natural backsleeper for at least half my life. At some point after college I'd learned to sleep perfectly flat on my back ---often times with no pillow. I'd wake up in the morning in that exact position. Hard to unlearn, in fact I went to desperate measures after cpap to strap myself to a post to prevent rolling over. ANd FOR SURE before getting cpap therapy BACK SLEEPING made apnea MUCH worse.

After cpap, I tried to "learn" to stomach sleep, but I found that (contrary to someone elses problems here) it CAUSED back problems. This is the rub--putting a lot of pressure on your stomach and organs mis-aligns your back which is trying to accomodate that position by rigging your back muscles into un natural alignments in my opinion. Not sure if this is the normal response, but it was definitely bad for my posture and morning pain.

Finally, Im now "self-rigging" my own SLIGHTLY pressure higher, and also experimenting with backsleeping with a higher pressure. I think this is what the "sleep tech" ws getting at----if you are truly using the therapy correctly, the pressure in theory should overcome throat collapse in the suppine position. The added benefit is that you dont risk creating a leak during the night.

Bottom-line, the sleep tech was saying that the best theory for correct pressure is that which overcomes back-sleeping apneas is the "correct' pressure seems to make an awful lot of sense to me, albeit you wouldnt want it so high you had trouble keeping the mask on OR creating centrals.

Some nights, I'll stay in the fetal position and side sleep. This is the BEST compromise between the two because I think it gives the best of both worlds. Less pressure on the throat, less chance of mask slippage, less back problems. I also feel better respirationally in the morning--less brain fog if I can side sleep.

I suspect I need the dental appliance because I have a fairly severe case (NOT diagnosed as such by sleep studies) and need a strong pressure (as proven by consistent apap data with a baseline of 14 but seeing the morning data show it adjusts up to 16 frequently but briefly). I strongly believe that SIDE SLEEPING promotes the most compliance and the best results. It may have to do with jaw alignment (those of us with overbite have an additional problem to overcome in that regard).

I think this is a good topic because it shows solutions are individualistic. True, MOST people probably should avoid back sleeping if possible, but there are others who can easily do it with the right pressure, and the added benefit of less back pain (with a really good bed) and less chance of pushing the mask off by moving around.

To complicate matters, if youre a stomach sleeper with your hands down your sides, you are less likely to "rip the mask off" which almost all of us have done during treatment, and some do nearly every night. We all know about half people who start this therapy discontinue it, and that has to be one of the biggest reasons, alongside the "feeling of smothering"

[rimp]

I've been using the Mirage fx nasal mask and........it's very lightweight and comfortable for me I've always been a mouth breather while asleep. Wish I could find a FFM that's as light and comfortable as this nasal mask is......I'd be in heaven.

[49er]

In limited trials, I have found that my mirage quattro works sleeping on my stomach in the falcon position that has been mentioned on this board. I do this by having my head hang off of a thin pillow.

Interestingly, unlike my previous experiences with full face masks, in which I had to wear a neck collar to keep the AHI below 5 with a pressure range of 10-20, it wasn't necessary in this situation. The leak levels also were at their lowest.

Of course, until I sleep this way during a significant block of time on the machine, this proves nothing. Only time will tell.

49er