distilled water vs tap water?

[sleeplessinaz]

I only use Distilled water--it is cheap. My tank looks as clean and clear as the day I got it. Why take chances?

Carrie

[tomjax]

Hosecrusher,
Your article, http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... x/abstract
This refers to a facility where humidifiers arfe responsible for endotoxins.

This is completely apples and oranges.
No analogy at all to a heated humidifier in a cpap.
In this as in the cases of legionaires(?) disease, ther pathogens are in the water DROPLETS.
In a HH, the water is in vapor form.
Apples and oranges. no connection

[xerort]

Tomjax, I disagree.

Legionarres is named for the original outbreak of the disease, which was from drinking water found in water towers on top of..... An american legion.

how this effects a HH and the use of distilled water/tap water, I do not know. I did not pay a whole lot of attention in microbiology, as the professor just red straight out of the book and was very monotone.......

However, in situations such as this, I reccommend spring water over tap. With tap water, you never truly know what the source is, especially while traveling. I once had a patient say to me "Oh, it's ok if we use tap water, because our water is really chlorinated... we don't even cook with it!"

To which I replied "But you will evaporate it and then breath it in?"

On cruises especially, because many will not allow you to carry on your own water. Then I reccommend using the most expensive non-carbonated water that you can. It's already paid for, and it's got to be so expensive for a reason.

However, while traveling in third world countries, I really really really reccommend using bottled water. I don't even want to think of what "montezuma's revenge" can do to the lungs.

The offical line in my company is this: Use distilled water due to 1) the mineral and salt contents of tap and spring water can ruin your humidifier, and any bacteria in the tap water that would be ok to go into your stomach might not be ok to go into your lungs."

Better safe then sorry, and it might be the company covering it's butt....

[jweeks]

Legionarres is named for the original outbreak of the disease, which was from drinking water found in water towers on top of..... An american legion.

Hi,

I remember this being big news when it happened. It wasn't at an American Legion. Rather, it was at a hotel that was hosting an American Legion convention. It was a big mystery why hundreds of people got sick, and at least two dozen end up dying. It is amazing to me that this disease had never been identified before this one big outbreak. Since then, there have been a number of big outbreaks, including one caused by cooling towers on a hospital in Mankato, MN, located just south of the Twin Cities (where I live).

-john-

[HoseCrusher]

As long as we are making fruit salad, how about some bananas...

Under normal conditions, I totally agree with you. However, I am trying to understand what would cause an upset condition.

If you completely dry out the humidifier and your hose before use, I think it would be very difficult to introduce a water born pathogen into the xPAP air. However, when I empty my humidifier tank I end up with water droplets on the top of the tank. I also see water droplets inside the nozzle that I attach my hose to. If I had contaminated water that I emptied out, and things didn't completely dry out, it is possible to have droplets of contaminated water on the top of the tank. If these were to drop down to the water in the tank, it is possible to release pathogens into the air stream.

I would hope that the water drops in the hose and in the mask would not have direct contact with the contaminated water in the humidifier tank, but what would happen if the machine got bumped and some of the water sloshed up into the hose...

The fact that there is only, as far as I am able to find, one case reported speaks volumes. If this were a serious concern you would think there would be more reports. Still, I am amazed by the number of people that have sinus issues while using xPAP. Some of those people may be using distilled water, but when did they last clean out their tank.

While extremely rare, I don't think it is impossible to have problems show up if you use contaminated water in the humidifier.

[Physician]

When water evaporates from the humidifier, it is distilled. And as others have posted, only the residual salts in the chamber can be a (minute, insignificant) issue.

[xerort]

Legionarres is named for the original outbreak of the disease, which was from drinking water found in water towers on top of..... An american legion.

Hi,

I remember this being big news when it happened. It wasn't at an American Legion. Rather, it was at a hotel that was hosting an American Legion convention. It was a big mystery why hundreds of people got sick, and at least two dozen end up dying. It is amazing to me that this disease had never been identified before this one big outbreak. Since then, there have been a number of big outbreaks, including one caused by cooling towers on a hospital in Mankato, MN, located just south of the Twin Cities (where I live).

-john-

That's right. In the 80's or something.

When water evaporates from the humidifier, it is distilled. And as others have posted, only the residual salts in the chamber can be a (minute, insignificant) issue.

Touche, that is correct.

Another option would be to look up how to make your own distilled water. Thinking about it, it is probably a fairly simple process.

[jdm2857]

Legionnaire's disease was first identified in 1976 at the Bellevue-Stratford hotel in center city Philadelphia. There was an American Legion convention at the hotel at the time.

[Slartybartfast]

This question is perhaps the most predictable in all the forum.
The answers also are.
This is about the thousandth time this has been asked and answered.

Great logic, poor physics background.
The simplest answer is to use distilled water at all times to prevent minreral buildup, but occasional use of tap water does no harm.
The Paul Reveres will tune in with the caution to avoid legioneers and all other maladies, but again nothing but scare tactics.

The simple answer here is that there is no connection at all with the diseases spread from water particles from coooling towers and a heated humidifier.

It just cannot happen.
No bugs can be spread this way.

This will never be understood by those not interested in understanding.

. . . and I suppose that's the REAL reason the manufacturers recommend using distilled water.

[HoseCrusher]

Physician, If I understand you correctly, you think the Southern Medical Journal article is crap and there is absolutely no risk to health using tap water in the humidifier, even if that water is contaminated with endotoxin.

[Slartybartfast]

Physician, If I understand you correctly, you think the Southern Medical Journal article is crap and there is absolutely no risk to health using tap water in the humidifier, even if that water is contaminated with endotoxin.

Ok, maybe it's time to be a little more clear on the matter. I'm not "Physician," nor do I pretend to be one. Please don't mischaracterize what he said. For the record, "Physician" said, "When water evaporates from the humidifier, it is distilled. And as others have posted, only the residual salts in the chamber can be a (minute, insignificant) issue."

. . . which is, essentially correct. The water in a CPAP humidifier lies quietly in a reservoir, and it slowly evaporates into the air passing over the surface of the water. Whether the water in the humidifier is pristine-pure Sterile Water For Injection, U.S.P such as flows in the lines in the pharmaceutical research lab where I've worked for the past 27 years, or whether the water was scooped from your dog's drinking bowl makes no difference. Only water evaporates from the reservoir.

There is no mechanism that would allow the transmission of Legionella or Pseudomonas or the host of other bacteria and viruses that might accumulate in stagnant heated water to your lungs. The bacteria and viruses don't have wings. They are transmitted through the air in water droplets that must stay intact all the way from the water reservoir to your lungs. Which means a mist must be generated. One bacterium cannot generate an infection. Microbiologists will tell you the quantity of infectious organisms that must be innoculated into an individual in order to cause an infection. And that number varies with the identity of the infectious organism, it is asurprisingly large number. And a mist can only be generated by the mechanical agitation of water. Water in a cooling tower or building humidifier is sprayed onto absorbent materials by high pressure pumps, or it falls from a reservoir, and droplets are created. Those droplets can transmit infectious bacteria. But air passing over still water in a CPAP humidifier cannot.

[LinkC]

. . . and I suppose that's the REAL reason the manufacturers recommend using distilled water.

Nope! As has been stated MANY times...manufacturers recommend distilled water because dissolved solids tend to build up in the water chamber and eventually cannot be removed. It has absolutely NOTHING to do with health concerns. Feel free to believe the old wive's tales if you wish. Distilled water certainly won't harm you or your equipment. But expect the bogus health crapola to be met with with facts and logic.

[Hose_Head]

The original poster asked about use of distilled water while traveling.

As always, the use of distilled water in your humidifier will minimize long term problems due to build up of salt precipitates in the humidifier.

However ....

It is OK to use something other than distilled water if distilled water is unavailable. For example, when traveling.

My preference for a source of water, in order, would be:

1) distilled water

2) reverse osmosis water

3) bottled water (so long as it's potable) (not mineral water or carbonated water)

4) tap water (so long as it's potable). If the tap water is chlorinated, it's useful to let it sit in an open container for an hour or so to allow the chlorine to evaporate.

5) mineral water or (flat) carbonated water (so long as it's potable)

6) boiled tap water (if water was not potable to being with).


The order of preference may change, depending on local circumstances.

Except for the distilled water (and maybe the reverse osmosis water - depending on how well the RO is working), water should be discarded each morning (do not top up)

The farther down the list you go, the more frequently you will need to clean the humidifier tank, including a treatment with vinegar to remove any precipitated salts.


Personally, when I travel, I do not bother trying to find distilled water. It's only for a limited period of time and high quality bottled water always seems to be available. Therefore, that's what I use when travelling. I discard the left over water each morning. Following this routine, I've never seen ANY precipitates or evidence of bacteria or fungus in my humidifier. As a precaution, I clean my humidifier and soak it in vinegar on return to home.

[jweeks]

Another option would be to look up how to make your own distilled water. Thinking about it, it is probably a fairly simple process.

Hi,

Simple, yes, but costly. There was a thread here about 18 months ago about distilled water machines. I'll admit that it is a bit of a hassle to have to buy and stock distilled water at home, which made me look into the machines. It turns out that they are over $100, and the cost to run them is over $1 per gallon of output. Given that they have a limited lifetime, that makes them at least 3 times the cost of the 69 cent per gallon distilled water at Wal-Mart. I go to Wal-Mart once a month anyway, so it is no extra time or miles for me to buy the gallon jugs.

-john-

[kempo]

Only distilled water is going into my s9 humidifier. Hell, you can't take it apart to clean it!