Are many of you needlessly using a humidifier ?

[roster]

I needed a lot of humidification wearing my beloved pillow mask and need little wearing the RespCare Hybrid.

That is an indication that you may be mouthbreathing when using the nasal pillows. This would create a higher flow of air than normal and could lead to drying.

[roster]

I suspect there are two primary factors involved here:

1. The drying effect of higher air turbulence and velocity (identical to blowing on your hands to dry them after washing them) relative to the rate at which your sinus mucous membranes hydrate themselves.

When the CPAP process is working properly there is increased pressure in the airway, but there is no increased volume or turbulence in the airway as compared to normal breathing.

Otherwise, good post!

[nosenabook]

Which symptoms did you have which prompted your using humidification and did the unit relieve your symptoms? Have you tried going without it once you started and did those symptoms/signs return ?

It was the daily nosebleeds that convinced me.

[Moby]

When I got contact lenses, the optician checked my eyes for tear production.

My eyes produced borderline amount of tears, only just enough to let me wear the contacts.

As our noses run when we cry, maybe our rate of tear production is related to the amount of moisture in our nasal mucosa. The more lacrimose amongst us may not need the humidifier so much.

Doing without my humidifier means waking early with burning throat and sinuses and and a very dry and painful nose.

Rested Gal, I like your hairdryer analogy.

[rested gal]

Rested Gal, I like your hairdryer analogy.

Thanks, Moby, but upon reflection I'm not sure if it applies as well as I thought it did when it popped into my head.

Others' comments about "positive air pressure" not being the same thing as "air flow" are making me back off a bit from my hair dryer analogy.

Something is going on, though, that is drying to my nasal passages if I use CPAP without a humidifier in-line. My gut instinct tells me it may have something to do with the normal vent exhaust flow, but I don't know how that affects what's going on with the air I'm breathing via the nasal pillows (or with any other mask, for that matter.)

Same thing you described (stinging, burning nasal passages) happened to me the three or four times -- each and every time -- that I've used CPAP without a humidifier attached. Never happens when I use a humidifier.

[BlackSpinner]

Rested Gal, I like your hairdryer analogy.

Thanks, Moby, but upon reflection I'm not sure if it applies as well as I thought it did when it popped into my head.

Others' comments about "positive air pressure" not being the same thing as "air flow" are making me back off a bit from my hair dryer analogy.

Something is going on, though, that is drying to my nasal passages if I use CPAP without a humidifier in-line. My gut instinct tells me it may have something to do with the normal vent exhaust flow, but I don't know how that affects what's going on with the air I'm breathing via the nasal pillows (or with any other mask, for that matter.)

Same thing you described (stinging, burning nasal passages) happened to me the three or four times -- each and every time -- that I've used CPAP without a humidifier attached. Never happens when I use a humidifier.

When I lick my lips with my mask on I feel an intense cold on them, much more then when I lick my lips out side that mask and that is with the humidifier temp as high as I could make last week with a cold. So yes there is a difference to wet body parts.

[hotrod27]

If I don't use my humidifier my nose runs like a sugar tree the next day. In the summer I usually don't turn on the heat but in the winter I crank it up.

[Divelucaya]

It seems like some of you are coming down hard on Physician for asking a simple question. My response to the question is "probably yes." I was titrated with one and the prescription for my equipment included one. I don't believe there was any basis behind the decision other than the fact I am a mouth breather. The "clinician" (and I use the term very lightly) quickly ran through use of the C-PAP and how to put on the mask. Only one mask was brought out (Quattro medium), the same size/style mask used during the initial and titration sleep studies. The "clinician" never properly fitted the mask; she just instructed that I adjust the fit while in the sleep position and not while sitting up. I have several times ripped the mask off in the middle of the night because of either leakage annoying me or pain on the bridge of my nose. When I saw the Doctor for a follow-up and explained the problems with the mask he prescribed a "re-fit" and also nasal pillows, which was surprising becasue he told me on my inital visit the only viable option for me, as a mouth breather, was a full-face mask. The term "rainout" was never explained to me and from attempts at trying to get the H5i to actually work ended up with several events where again I tore the mask from my face because of interrupted sleep due to "gurgling" of condensation accumulated in the tube. There was even one night where I woke because of water in the mask and remember sleepily pulling open one side of the mask to let the accumulated condensate pour out onto the pillow. It seems I have learned more from this forum than I did from the "clinician." I have found no added benefit from using the humidifier. I still wake with the same dry mouth with the setting on 5 as I did when it I had it on 2, 3, and 4. A setting of 5.5 or 6 results in rainout so I am pretty much at the max humidity setting. I also saw very little difference in water loss at all the settings except for 5.5 and 6, where almost 75-100% of the water was used up in one night.

So, it is my opinion that what is prescribed for an OSA patient may often times be boiler-plate with no actual basis other than conjecture (and maybe possible kickbacks from the supplier?). I will continue to use the H5i not because of its' so-called benefit (which I have yet to experience) but because it was not provided as a rental as was the S9; it was a purchase item. I may request a prescription for a climate tube so that I can try the humidifier at the max setting without the rainout effect (the tubing wrap is not covered by insurance but the climate tube is).

[BlackSpinner]

It seems like some of you are coming down hard on Physician for asking a simple question.

There are ways of asking questions neutrally and as leading questions. "When did you stop beating your spouse?" is a good example of a bad question format. So is the OP's subject line.

[Divelucaya]

It seems like some of you are coming down hard on Physician for asking a simple question.

There are ways of asking questions neutrally and as leading questions. "When did you stop beating your spouse?" is a good example of a bad question format. So is the OP's subject line.

Sorry, but I don't see it as a bad question format. I see the word "needlessly" as being "with little or no basis." Maybe some are interpreting the word differently. The sleep center I went to used the same equipment I was prescribed. I was not told, nor was it in the sleep study report, why a humidifier was used or why I needed one. In my opinion, it was only prescribed because one was used during the test, part of their standard setup. It may have been prescribed because I am a mouth breather, but since I continue to have dry mouth (possibly even more than without the C-PAP) its' benefit is questionable. Perhaps the question should have been "unnecessarily using a humidifier." Regardless, I am sure there are a fair amount of humidifier users that have experienced no significant benefit, thus making the device unnecessary.

[BlackSpinner]

It seems like some of you are coming down hard on Physician for asking a simple question.

There are ways of asking questions neutrally and as leading questions. "When did you stop beating your spouse?" is a good example of a bad question format. So is the OP's subject line.

Sorry, but I don't see it as a bad question format. I see the word "needlessly" as being "with little or no basis." Maybe some are interpreting the word differently. The sleep center I went to used the same equipment I was prescribed. I was not told, nor was it in the sleep study report, why a humidifier was used or why I needed one. In my opinion, it was only prescribed because one was used during the test, part of their standard setup. It may have been prescribed because I am a mouth breather, but since I continue to have dry mouth (possibly even more than without the C-PAP) its' benefit is questionable. Perhaps the question should have been "unnecessarily using a humidifier." Regardless, I am sure there are a fair amount of humidifier users that have experienced no significant benefit, thus making the device unnecessary.

Just ask any ENT why humidity is necessary! - there are lots of bits of medical stuff that increases comfort because comfort increases the use and the healing ability. You don't "need" a separate room in the hospital, wards are more efficient. You don't "need" a tv. You don't need a private bath room. You don't need a curtain. The staff doesn't "need" to know you name, a number will do.
Medicine doesn't need to taste "good". A metal and plastic walking boot is not superior over a plaster cast.

All of that stuff is needless.

[Guest]

I have never needed nor used a humidifier with either the RemStar nor the S9 Autoset. It seems some members use the humidifier because it was included with the machine. It adds time regarding cleaning and the possibility of the reservoir being a culture medium.

Which symptoms did you have which prompted your using humidification and did the unit relieve your symptoms ? Have you tried going without it once you started and did those symptoms/signs return ?

Assuming that you're actually a physician, you would know that everyone's body is different. That's why people have to try different medications and treatments for different things. For sleep apnea, CPAP works for some people and in others it doesn't.

Are some people using a humidifier needlessly? Probably. Does having too much humidity cause problems? Not usually. Does having too little cause problems? DEFINITELY. Humidity levels in the air vary, so even in damp places, having some humidity coming from your machine isn't a bad thing. It's not as if the humidifiers were put on these machines for no good reason.

I personally use it. I live in the northwest and only use a low setting here. I've gone without before and it isn't as comfortable. In the long run, it could cause sinus issues and compliance issues. To most sleep physicians, compliance is their most important concern. I also travel. When I'm somewhere that is more of a desert, I use the highest humidity setting. I haven't heard of anyone having issues due to too much humidity (with the exception of condensation in the tubing which can easily be addressed), but there are tons of posts from people with issues due to too little humidity.

[Guest]

Oh, and they make soap too. You have to wash your hose every few days and washing a reservoir as part of this takes almost no extra time. For me, it helps in keeping the hose in the bucket. The point of nasties growing in a reservoir of distilled water that gets clean every few days is just silly.

[So Well]

Does having too much humidity cause problems? Not usually.

Oh, and they make soap too. You have to wash your hose every few days and washing a reservoir as part of this takes almost no extra time. For me, it helps in keeping the hose in the bucket. The point of nasties growing in a reservoir of distilled water that gets clean every few days is just silly.

Disagree. Many in the forum, including me,:

1. Get congestion if the humidity is set too high.
2. Never wash out our hoses. Three years now on my hose with no cleaning except to wipe down the outside of the connectors where my hand touches. You are more likely to introduce contaminants in the hose by washing it than by leaving it alone.
3. Rarely wash, or even rinse, our humidifier tanks. I don't often use my humidifier but I do travel a lot on business and sometimes am in a very dry climate. Then I use the humidifier and have gone weeks without even emptying it, only topping it off with distilled water every night.

[Breathe Jimbo]

I have disconnected the humidifier for naps, with no untoward effects. Since we are heading into the damper months in So Cal, I will try going without the humidifier tonight to see what happens. It would be a little simpler if I do not need to use it all the time. I'm pretty sure I'll need it when the Santa Ana winds blow during the spring and summer.