No mask last night

[Mac33]

I didn't use my CPAP last night and used my SPO oxygen/pulsemeter. I also had three vodkas earlier in the night and took an ambien to sleep. I had 17 desats 16 of those were 90% saturation or above. One went down to 86 for about 12 secs. I slept for 8h 37m. My AHI was 57 at my sleep study with almost all apneas/Hypopneas at 20 secs or less. Half were Hypopneas. I feel great and not sleepy at all. As a matter of fact I get better sleep without that mask on my face most of the time. Will this condition kill me if I forgo using all the time. I don't think so. I've done this many other times with similar results. I know people here are hardcore but sometimes you wonder about this cash cow doctors now have...............

[newhosehead]

I didn't use my CPAP last night and used my SPO oxygen/pulsemeter. I also had three vodkas earlier in the night and took an ambien to sleep. I had 17 desats 16 of those were 90% saturation or above. One went down to 86 for about 12 secs. I slept for 8h 37m. My AHI was 57 at my sleep study with almost all apneas/Hypopneas at 20 secs or less. Half were Hypopneas. I feel great and not sleepy at all. As a matter of fact I get better sleep without that mask on my face most of the time. Will this condition kill me if I forgo using all the time. I don't think so. I've done this many other times with similar results. I know people here are hardcore but sometimes you wonder about this cash cow doctors now have...............

Hello. I see your equipment is not listed so I wonder how much reading you have done on this forum. You ask (and state) "Will this condition kill me if I forgo using all the time. I don't think so." I don't know if you are in the beginning stages of CPAP therapy, but if you are, it can be difficult to get used to, more for some than others. There is so much I don't know from your post.
But, to get back to your question (if it is one, as you state you do not think it will kill you) I have read enough on here, talked to my doctor enough, researched enough to believe that yes, it will shorten your life if you don't use it. And yes, people here are hardcore, I suppose, but I believe that is because they realize the importance of this treatment and want to prolong both their lives and their quality of life.
You also allude to this "cash cow that doctors now have.." Well, I can think of plenty of other cash cows that are not making the difference in my life this one is.
Once again, it would be helpful if you posted your equipment and perhaps talked about what makes wearing the mask so uncomfortable for you. There is help to be had here. I for one would encourage you to take advantage of it, but that is, of course, entirely up to you.

Jeanette

[Joe50]

I didn't use my CPAP last night and used my SPO oxygen/pulsemeter. I also had three vodkas earlier in the night and took an ambien to sleep. I had 17 desats 16 of those were 90% saturation or above. One went down to 86 for about 12 secs. I slept for 8h 37m. My AHI was 57 at my sleep study with almost all apneas/Hypopneas at 20 secs or less. Half were Hypopneas. I feel great and not sleepy at all. As a matter of fact I get better sleep without that mask on my face most of the time. Will this condition kill me if I forgo using all the time. I don't think so. I've done this many other times with similar results. I know people here are hardcore but sometimes you wonder about this cash cow doctors now have...............

Why don't you try it without the mask for awhile and see what happens. My best bet is that you will incur a sleep debt in a week or so and start feeling lousy again but who knows.

[Mac33]

Hi Jeanette,
Thanks for the kind reply. I have the Resmed elite 8 and use the ComfortCurve nasal mask which is quite comfortable when I get a good seal. Been using the machine for about 8 months and know more about this condition then most doctors. Ironically when my mom had colon and breast cancers I knew more about treatments, surgery and medications than many doctors I came in contact with.
My moms first oncologist was clueless about the new aromatase inhibitors like Arimidex to shut down estrogen production for breast cancer. Anastrozole (Arimidex) was significantly better than tamoxifen (Nolvadex) I told her and she got pissed but switched her.
The first two colon cancer surgeons told me my moms tumor was too big to do laproscopic minimally invasive surgery. I read otherwise and went to Sloan-Ketterring where I met with Dr Weiser who after reviewing my moms info said no problem I can do both open or minimally invasive....you can even change your mind one hour before surgery to switch procedures. He was an amazing surgeon.

[Mac33]

Joe,
I have gone at least 4 days with no problem. To be honest with you I never had sleep debt but was sent for a sleep study due to AFIB which they try to link to apnea but I now know it's a gray area. My sleep study showed over 90% sleep efficiency during the 7 hours I slept with most of my SPO2 above 90%, same as my oxymeter readings. Hey look I'm not against treatment or CPAP I will use it when I want to but unless you have really severe sleep deprivation and gasp for air during the night I just wonder....everyone is different and in no way am I discouraging anyone from using this treatment. The Israeli study backed by German researchers to me prove this will not kill you and might actually live longer in certain subset of apnea suffers....just thinking outside the box.

[kteague]

It will interesting to see if you do pursue this avenue if your symptoms of AFib reappear. In my mind that would clear up the gray area in your case, and I'd be vigilant on that front. True, your desats aren't don't make one grab a machine and mask in fear. But are they enough to stress the heart? If each event means a shot of adrenaline, of what effect is that to not just the heart but other systems? How many events caused arousal on the sleep study would matter to me, as I have found that chronically fractured sleep has its own consequences in both my physical and mental well being. Having a limb movement disorder does not affect my oxygen level, but it certainly has wrecked my alertness, memory, information processing, and general health. Just saying, consider all facets of your sleep apnea, not just the oxygen levels. Since you seem to be an information gatherer, just wanted to add this to your data input.

[Joe50]

Joe,
I have gone at least 4 days with no problem. To be honest with you I never had sleep debt but was sent for a sleep study due to AFIB which they try to link to apnea but I now know it's a gray area. My sleep study showed over 90% sleep efficiency during the 7 hours I slept with most of my SPO2 above 90%, same as my oxymeter readings. Hey look I'm not against treatment or CPAP I will use it when I want to but unless you have really severe sleep deprivation and gasp for air during the night I just wonder....everyone is different and in no way am I discouraging anyone from using this treatment. The Israeli study backed by German researchers to me prove this will not kill you and might actually live longer in certain subset of apnea suffers....just thinking outside the box.

Great! Good luck, if I thought I had a chance in hell of just being a little tired but still make it I would dump all my stuff in the river and go on with my life.

[Maple Leaf]

Will this condition kill me if I forgo using all the time.

Hell no!! It's not like you're not going to wake up tomorrow if you stop Cpap. It's just, well, kinda like having cancer I suppose. So relax,we all know cancer doesn't kill overnight, heck it might take a couple of years before ya croak. So lay back and relax, you've got a bit of time before shipping out.

Enjoy,
Rick

[thewetlizard]

don't worry I didn't sleep with my cpap on last night either. I'm I worried about it? No. So don't worry about it!

[Goofproof]

Will it KILL you if you don't use your XPAP, if you need one? The answer to that question is: "Only Once"! Without the correct XPAP unit that collects FULL data and the software to read it's output, it's hard to tell what is really happening with your treatments. If you want to swim in De-Nile and take a chance, that up to you, it's you health and life, you can't get either back if you change your mind later in life about what is important.

Sleep Apnea is a lot like playing with a revolver and one bullet in the cylinder. You may be lucky and find a lot of empty chambers. That's how Sleep Apnea kill, usually not all at once, in INCHES, organs are over stressed, not correctly repaired at night, a run down feeling like life is passing you by. Once you damage you body over time it doesn't recover to what it would have been if you had taken better care of it.

In the end, the choice is all up to you, we all have to make our own choices. Jim

[Janknitz]

You don't state what the results of your sleep study were as to severity of sleep apnea, that might make a difference. Some people with mild apnea can make simple changes (weight loss, sleep position, oral appliance) and do fine without CPAP. In any case it's unlikely you will die in your sleep immediately because you are not using CPAP.

I look at sleep apnea like "cumulative trauma" This is a sports medicine concept. An athelete causes micro-tears to tendons or muscles. Each micro-tear, on its own, is not enough to cause problems, but accumulate enough of them over time, and you have a BIG problem. SA is like that. Each time you sleep without CPAP, you are accumulating trauma to your body, especially your brain which is the controller for the rest of your body. Over time apnea does more and more damage. Each night's damage isn't enough to impair your health in a major way, but over time the damage is compounded, and the problems it cause like high blood pressure, heart issues, etc. also compound over time to the point where it becomes so severe that it cannot be controlled or reversed with CPAP alone.

If you want to break and possibly reverse that chain of cumulative trauma to your body, the only way to do so is use CPAP every time you sleep because we simply don't know how many nights you can "get away with" skipping treatment and not add to that cumulative harm. It IS easier to sleep without CPAP, but that comfort comes at a price--your body and health.

[Mac33]

Thank You all for your civility in your replies and your genuine concerns. As for my AFIB it's seems that the CPAP has caused many of my episodes, probably by the air pressure stimulating my sympathetic nervous system. My cardiologist also noticed this in my titration study I kept get going in and out of AFIB all night long.
I know all about the cumulative effects and how they can lead to long term health problems or so they say......

http://www.shiftworkdisorder.com/good-n ... 10942.html

http://www.jpost.com/HealthAndSci-Tech/ ... ?id=171421

I've also been conducting my own observations and at least 6 of my co-workers have very severe sleep apnea but they all refuse to go for the sleep study for fear of the dreaded mask.............One of them looks like he's the walking dead I feel for sorry for him.
As far as my symptoms are concerned I worked all day and then went to the gym. I just got back from a three hour workout and I'm so full of energy I need an ambien to sleep. I'm in perfect health except for the AFIB which seems to be more prevalent nowadays.
Hey even my idol Larry Bird has it along with Bill Bradely, Jerry West, Derrick Cole, Big Pappi, Bill Bradley etc....
BTW my AHI was 57...severe but who knows if results were skewed........
In the end, the choice is all up to you, we all have to make our own choices.....well put Jim!

[Mac33]

BTW last time I tried posting something similiar I was greeted by....Go F**K Yourself by the first poster and pretty nasty replies by numerous others. I'm also keeping my CPAP and will not give it up even If I pay out of pocket for lack of usage!

[sleepmba]

Mac33,
Your oxygen going into the 80's is not good. Sleep apnea, high blood pressure, and other heart problems seem to be associated. I can't connect all the dots with sleep apnea and heart problems, but I can offer a little logic. I say this to patients coming into my sleep lab on occasion.
The heart is a muscle that needs oxygen to work. When your oxygen gets low, your heart works harder/ increases its rate to compensate for the low oxygen level. Your heart is increasing rate in order to move more oxygen around your circulatory system to get it where it's needed. So your heart is working harder and doesn't have the oxygen it normally has which can not be good. Over a long period of time, this will take its toll. What toll? All the connections haven't been made (yet).
You bring up a good point about compliance and the affect of xPAP on how you physically feel. In my experience, the affect of xPAP differs from person to person. Sorry to hear your question/statement wasn't well received the first time around.

[Mac33]

Sleepnba,
Thanks for the info but my one dip to 86% was only 12 secs and heart rate was at around 68 to 88.
My heart rate is higher on CPAP overall probably by overstimulating my sympathetic nevous system. I also had drops into low 80's with CPAP at times. What one fails to realize is the psychological trauma CPAP can take on your psyche especially if your single.
Why do people dismiss the Israeli study so readily? These scientists are recognized as leaders in sleep medicine!
Taking care of your body and regular exercise along with eating well can offer better benefits to health. Most American have become fat and lazy.