Losing your short term memory ? - thats life !

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
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dsm
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Re: Losing your short term memory ? - thats life !

Post by dsm » Wed May 12, 2010 3:06 am

GumbyCT wrote:
fidelfs wrote:Gumbyct,

Could you elaborate what changes you have seen with Ritalin? I am an aspie (self diagnosed and seeing a psychologist to confirm it. He is very close to corroborate my suspicion) and I am taking Wellbutrin for my anxiety and it is helping with focus but not at the level I would like it.
I think I will ask my primary doctor to try Ritalin. Aspies shares a lot of symptoms with ADHD but not all the symptoms.
Sorry for the delay - I missed this.

In any case, there is not much to elaborate on. I am just passing on what I was told. I have virtually no recall of this except I was very very confused and couldn't remember anything. I don't know even how long I was given this med even.

For awhile after I was released, gf would do imitations of me and tell me stories of how messed up I was. We called them Gumby stories. Of course, since things turned out alright we thought they were funny.

I remember the Chief of the ambulance telling me that my family was worried about me. I said, hell if I knew what was goin on I woulda been worried too.
GumbyCT

You are an amazing case - I would love to spend time with you discussing what happened & how you appear to have done so well in rebuilding your life. Seeing Anne go through so many phases to what I now think places her better off than she was before, has me intrigued as to how you might feel about your progress.

Anne was someone who battled all her life, a tiny fragile child from birth & as said earlier we were confident that despite expected setbacks she would emerge successful (beyond our wildest (truly) dreams).

There are so many things I would love to explore but also realize that you may not want to do so. But, I am impressed with your clarity here.

Cheers

DSM
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mars
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Re: Losing your short term memory ? - thats life !

Post by mars » Thu May 13, 2010 5:12 am

Hi DSM

Thanks for sharing part of your story, and what a interesting thread it turned out to be.

I reckon we learn more than if we went to U3A. Pity we cannot have real-life reunions every now and then.

cheers

Mars

PS I know you have a theory about memory loss, but can you tell me why the spell checker always comes up with DEISM when it comes across your forum name. Is the spell checker trying to tell us something?

PPS For those who don't know..........................

http://www3.griffith.edu.au/03/u3a/
for an an easier, cheaper and travel-easy sleep apnea treatment :D

http://www.cpaptalk.com/viewtopic/t7020 ... rapy-.html

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Re: Losing your short term memory ? - thats life !

Post by fidelfs » Thu May 13, 2010 3:03 pm

[quote="BlackSpinner
Welcome to the club

Check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programmer%27s_Stone
There are links in there
I found this concept very interesting http://www.c2.com/cgi/wiki?MappersVsPackers

My problem is not keeping focus but I get totally into focus and the real world just disappears. It is a much nicer place too.[/quote]


I am exactly like that, when I have a problem that I have to solve, I go to my own world to find the solution. My solutions are most of the time more elegant, easier and simplier. People tend to not pay attention what I am saying because I use to many words to express my ideas (Aspergers) and I don't use all the specifics. I can see how the idea they are presenting would work or not.

I hate when people makes me abruptly leave my own world (loose focus), I have a sensory overload and I become angry ( I don't express my anger, because I am old and learn that is not good). It could be as simple as a voice, a noise, odor (body odor) that overloads me and I cannot focus at anything even my reading skills stops for awhile. It is hard.

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Re: Losing your short term memory ? - thats life !

Post by BlackSpinner » Wed May 19, 2010 8:47 am

Something in the news about coffee
Although caffeine is the most widely consumed psychoactive drug worldwide, its potential beneficial effect for maintenance of proper brain functioning has only recently begun to be adequately appreciated. Substantial evidence from epidemiological studies and fundamental research in animal models suggests that caffeine may be protective against the cognitive decline seen in dementia and Alzheimer's disease (AD)

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Re: Losing your short term memory ? - thats life !

Post by Country4ever » Wed May 19, 2010 9:52 am

I have ADD and from what I've heard, it can mean that we hyperfocus on some things, to the exclusion of all others.......which then looks like we can't focus on everything else!
I have a question for you all, since you seem to have encountered many of the same problems as I have. I'm 60. But I have struggled my entire life.
Unfortunately, I didn't have parents who did anything about what now appears as a learning disability. I have several degrees, but I have other cognitive problems that have made life very difficult at times. I hardly ever read. its just too hard.
Anyhow......several years ago I was seeing a psychopharmacologist to deal with my depression/ADD. I told him that I really thought something was wrong with my brain because even though I'm incredibly perceptive and aware of things, I feel so cognitively challenged.
And its gotten much worse now that I'm older. Talk about short term memory loss!
I asked him if he could refer me to someone who could test me.
Well, I took a bunch of tests and the psychologist's report just said I was chronically depressed. It ticked me off because I felt like if I were a school-aged kid, they would have come up with a different diagnosis. I definitely feel age discrimination in trying to sort out what my cognitive problems are and have always been.
So who have you all seen as an adult to get some sort of diagnosis? I realize that there's probably nothing to be done for me at this age, but I would be comforted to be able to explain my very strange brain!
I realize that growing older has an affect on everything and my more recent problems are just a worsening of the same problems I've had my whole life.
I was hoping that being on cpap (2 and 1/2 years) would help, but it hasn't.

Sorry to hijack this thread, but it seemed like the right place/time to ask these questions.
Gumby.........I'm so happy for you with your recovery!

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Re: Losing your short term memory ? - thats life !

Post by LinkC » Wed May 19, 2010 10:19 am

I was first referred to a neurologist (who suggested I get a PSG). My main complaint was lack of concentration and memory loss. (I had blamed the second on the first...) After I was diagnosed and started CPAP, I asked him if my memories would come back. He said some might, but the OSA was preventing short-term memories from imprinting in the brain, as that occurs during deep sleep. So I shouldn't expect a lot to come back.

Bottom line...the 5 or 6 years before CPAP are pretty much lost. We call it my "dark period". Often my wife will bring up an event or a vacation. I cock my head and raise one eye...that's my signal to her that I have NO clue! So she patiently goes into great detail, bless her heart.

I found it very depressing that so much of my recent life is...just gone! She says "We'll just have to make new memories." And we do.

We went to California for our granddaughter's birth. (Or so I'm told...) I remember other visits out there, but not that one. The pictures help a little.

Most of the time we can joke about my "dark period". And now we take a lot more pictures...just in case.

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Re: Losing your short term memory ? - thats life !

Post by fidelfs » Wed May 19, 2010 1:57 pm

Lynk. What is PSG?

I kept researching and found out a little more about memory problems and I found out that my short term memory problem is normal for aspies.

I found out that are two different ways to remember things, the "remember" and the "knowing". Most of the adults with asperger have problems with "remember" memory.

Remember memory is when you can give details about what was asked, such as you can remember what city you went for vacation.
Knowing memory is when you know something but you can recall the specifics. You don't remember the city name where you took vacation in Europe but if you get a map you can find it and point where the vacation was.

It looks like I have the option to accept short term memory/"remember" memory, or take medicine for Alzheimer patients to boost my "Remember" memory.

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dsm
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Re: Losing your short term memory ? - thats life !

Post by dsm » Wed May 19, 2010 3:28 pm

BlackSpinner wrote:Something in the news about coffee
Although caffeine is the most widely consumed psychoactive drug worldwide, its potential beneficial effect for maintenance of proper brain functioning has only recently begun to be adequately appreciated. Substantial evidence from epidemiological studies and fundamental research in animal models suggests that caffeine may be protective against the cognitive decline seen in dementia and Alzheimer's disease (AD)
AaaaHaaaa !

I knew I should not have given up those 6-10 black plunger coffees a day. So thats why I can't remember where I put my Omega-3 pills.

DSM

But, on the up side I did stop shaking after 3 days

D
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dsm
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Re: Losing your short term memory ? - thats life !

Post by dsm » Wed May 19, 2010 3:37 pm

LinkC wrote:I was first referred to a neurologist (who suggested I get a PSG). My main complaint was lack of concentration and memory loss. (I had blamed the second on the first...) After I was diagnosed and started CPAP, I asked him if my memories would come back. He said some might, but the OSA was preventing short-term memories from imprinting in the brain, as that occurs during deep sleep. So I shouldn't expect a lot to come back.

Bottom line...the 5 or 6 years before CPAP are pretty much lost. We call it my "dark period". Often my wife will bring up an event or a vacation. I cock my head and raise one eye...that's my signal to her that I have NO clue! So she patiently goes into great detail, bless her heart.

I found it very depressing that so much of my recent life is...just gone! She says "We'll just have to make new memories." And we do.

We went to California for our granddaughter's birth. (Or so I'm told...) I remember other visits out there, but not that one. The pictures help a little.

Most of the time we can joke about my "dark period". And now we take a lot more pictures...just in case.
LinkC,

Wow that is a serious instance. I hadn't realized that OSA could be that devastating on memory but the night time harm to imprinting memories sure makes sense.

I guess in general that any cause of sleep interference has this same potential to harm memory imprinting.



Fidelfs

PSG = PolySomnoGraph = a sleep study (report).

Cheers

DSM
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dsm
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Re: Losing your short term memory ? - thats life !

Post by dsm » Wed May 19, 2010 6:41 pm

Based on LinkC's comment (thanks) I went looking for what I could find in this area & did locate these documents (also Wikipaedia has some interesting entries)...


document #1 ...

http://necsi.edu/projects/yaneer/sleep/ ... issoc.html

An extract ...
>>


During sleep the brain is active but is largely isolated from sensory neurons. It is here proposed that during sleep the mind further subdivides into isolated neuron groups. This division decomposes imprinted experience from the waking period into pieces which then form the building blocks for analyzing and responding to future circumstance. The approach is based on the perspective that the central purpose of the brain is not to remember experiences, but rather to obtain from them knowledge that will serve in future circumstances.

Modern theories of sleep suggest it serves a biological restorative function, or that sleep exists because of a survival advantage in removing primitive man from danger., However, the existence of dreams has motivated theories in which sleep plays an important role in psychology or how the brain processes information., One modern framework for describing information processing by the brain is the neural network. In this framework, Crick and Mitchinson , suggest that dreams cause selective forgetting of undesirable or parasitic neural network states. In contrast Geszti and Pázmándi suggest dreams are a form of relearning. In these works, roles in information processing are attributed to Rapid Eye Movement (REM) sleep, or dream sleep. The other parts of sleep, where dreams are infrequent (non-REM sleep), are still generally believed to have a biological role. However, total sleep deprivation causes psycho-functional, not physiological, deterioration in humans and the primary effects occur with loss of non-REM sleep.2

In this article it is proposed that both REM and non-REM sleep play a significant role in information processing by the brain. It is suggested that during sleep brain subdivisions are temporarily isolated from each other. The known specificity of neurotransmitters makes it possible selectively to 'turn-off' synapses or axons that connect between subdivisions. Such selective control enables isolation of the brain from sensory input even though sleep is a neurologically active state. The possible role of further internal dissociation of the brain appears to be discussed here for the first time.

It is proposed that the temporary subdivision of the brain during sleep, and a selective relearning process during this time, enables and maintains the distinct roles of different subdivisions of the brain during waking. The fundamental motivation for subdivision of the brain is the need to generalize experiences by isolating aspects that may reoccur in other contexts. Quite literally the act of combining aspects of prior experience is directly the result of recombining states of partially independent brain subdivisions.

It is further suggested that dissociation in sleep performs an essential restorative function. Neural networks fail catastrophically when overloaded. Selective relearning also results in a selective forgetting of information that prevents overload failure. Experimental observation of psycho-functional failure after sleep deprivation,2 which prevents this restorative function, may be directly related to overload failure.

Consequences of this discussion are far reaching both for public policy and progress in understanding brain function and disorders. Public attitudes, and corporate behavior, motivated by or motivating scientific thought often proceeds on the assumption that sleep is a waste of time. In contrast, these proposals suggest that well-balanced sleep schedules are of central importance in human functioning not only for the short term effects of sleep deprivation but for its long term effects. Moreover, the temporary subdivision of the brain and selective relearning may provide a step towards understanding mechanisms of pattern recognition, the 'logic' of human language and the ability of separate parts of the brain to function coherently. Finally, it provides predictions that can be tested by the new techniques currently available for mapping regional brain activity.

This article is arranged as follows. First, the conventional neural model of adaptive learning is reviewed. The existence of brain subdivision is motivated within the neural model. The problem of neural network overload and the impact of selective relearning is discussed. The role of temporary dissociation and the purpose of different levels of sleep are described. The impact of sleep deprivation and other malfunctions of the sleep process are presented. Finally, it is suggested that the role of sleep provides an intrinsic basis for human individuality.

<<





document #2 ...

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_o ... 98be9d27b2

An extract ...

>>
Main Text
The last decade has seen a dramatic increase in our understanding of sleep-dependent memory consolidation, moving the concept of a role for sleep in memory consolidation from a generally discredited (or at best ignored) idea to a largely accepted tenet among both memory and sleep researchers. While the number of players in this field remains small, it is growing rapidly, and researchers are now approaching the topic with a remarkably broad array of tools (Table 1). These range from strictly behavioral studies in humans — demonstrating, for example, selective memory enhancement across a night of sleep [1] — to studies of the role of sleep in modifying experience-dependent cortical plasticity in the cat visual cortex [2]. Claire Jackson and colleagues have now reported in Current Biology [3] that imprinting in domestic chicks is dependent on post-training sleep; their work further shows how the contribution of individual neurons to the memory of the imprinting stimulus develops over the 24 hours following imprinting.
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