What experiments have you tried?

[Country4ever]

I'm trying 2 different things that might effect my numbers. I've struggled with really high leak rates for about 4 months now, and I was never convinced it was my nasal pillow/tubing that was doing the leaking.
I know a couple of nights is not enough to make any definite associations, but....here's what I'm thinking:
I taped my humidifier along its seems with blue painter's tape and my leak rate is lower.
The one time that I didn't use a humidifier, my leak rate was low. Then, the 2 times I forgot to add more water to the humidifier, my leak rate was lower.
So......(and I have to credit echo for pointing me in this direction)......I'm wondering if I'm losing air through my humidifier, and if the water level in the chamber affects leak rates. We'll see. But last night, my humidifier was taped along its seems and I forgot to add more water to it. My leak rate was .06 l/s!!
It hasn't been that low since last year. And my AHI was 5.2, down from the usual of 6-10 (for the past few months). Maybe I'm celebrating too soon, but I do love a challenge!
Anyone else doing any experiments like this?

[Gilley]

This is a very interesting post. I to struggle with a hight leak rate and dont think its the mask. I also feel I have solved my mouth leaks with a sweat band and chin strap. I never suspected the humidifier.....Are you taping the seam where the lid closes? Maybe a pic if you have one.
Also what is your presure?
Thanks,
Gilley

[Country4ever]

Hi Gilley,

I just tape wherever the lid closes down onto the bottom part of the water chamber. I didn't cover the little lip/handle in the front though. I tape long-wise, so half of the tape is above the seam, and half below.
I used painter's tape so it wouldn't leave a residue. I'll let you know how the next few day's go. I have a tendency to get all excited over something, and it goes away! But here's hoping it was a small, constant leak in the humidifier.

[BlackSpinner]

Did you check your settings for the type of humidifier? Maybe they set it up wrong? My S8 has setting both for the humidifier and the mask and it will affect the leak rate it reports.

[Country4ever]

Hi BlackSpinner,
Yes, I have my machine set to the right humidifier and also the right mask. Do you Gilley?
My pressure is 8.0. I do have lots more leak problems with pressures any higher than that.

[echo]

oh i'm glad you're making progress on the troubleshooting! I have no idea how or what seam you're taping , i don't have that machine and i can't really make it out from the pictures... but if it works!!

Oddly enough I've been having some problems recently, congestion etc, and I switched hoses. I suddenly noticed that not only are my sinsuses still clear in the morning (though that could be the ephedrine ) and I'm sleeping better, I'm also using a lot less water out of my humidifer, and my mask/machine sounds a little bit quieter again.
I'm wondering if there was a small leak in the hose or in the rubber attachment around the hose (the hose is entirely covered with a hose cover so I wouldn't really notice any damage, and I haven't gotten around to inspecting it yet).

So yes I experiment, but I don't tend to tape up my machine just my mouth

Maybe you're also getting some air leakage around those seams (is that below the water level or not?) ?
But if you're also getting lower leak rates merely by the fact that there's no WATER in the tank, then I'm stumped again. Unless it's related to the way you're re-connecting the humidifer-machine-hose or humidifer lid after you put water in?? Hmmmm... I really can't think of why the mere presence of water in the tank would increase the leak rate (are you getting some water splashing into a sensor somewhere maybe???!) Please experiment some more and report back. A pic or two would help the less-than-imaginative-ones of us

[Gilley]

Hi BlackSpinner,
Yes, I have my machine set to the right humidifier and also the right mask. Do you Gilley?
My pressure is 8.0. I do have lots more leak problems with pressures any higher than that.

Yes I have the right Humidifier and mask setting and I'm getting use to my new pressure at 15. I'm just looking for some other place to blame my high leak rate on and I have noticed a higher rate with I dont fill my humidifier with water. I may take it off for a night and see if that makes a difference.

[Country4ever]

I'll try to take a pic of how I tape it today.
Another good night of numbers!! My leak was .08 and my AHI was 4.4! Hasn't been this good since last January.
My next experiment will be to leave the tape on, but fill the chamber fuller. Then a few days after that, I will try not using the tape, but using less water.
There's no way I can go without a humidifier. Gilley....good luck to you if you take off the humidifier. Your sinuses might get so dry during the night that you're really uncomfortable.
Okay....here's another variable for me........I've had my humidifier dial set to almost "full throttle", and I never get rain out. I find that very curious. So I guess after I do these other experiments, I'll try lowering that. Who knows. Maybe the dial is causing problems.
I'm not sure how your humidifier works, but mine has an opaque rubber gasket in the lid. I never knew it was there. Anyhow, the other day I took it off and washed it well. Maybe that has helped with a better seal??
I think I'll call ResMed next week and tell them about my findings. Although I fear they'll just say "You need a new water chamber", without thinking anything through.
I have a really strange body. It does weird things for no apparent reason. So maybe my sleep has just been funky for several months and now I'm doing better. But my suspicion that its the humidifier is getting really high.
Anyhow.......that's my update.

[Country4ever]

Here's a pic of how I tape it.

[Big Daddy RRT,RPSGT]

Wash the gaskets with dish soap to remove any residue. The humidifier chamber is pushed against one to get a seal. The lid pushes down on the other. Silicone doesn't work well if is gets any residue on it (visible or not). Also make sure where the chamber contacts these points is very smooth. If it is older it may be a little rough or even slightly chipped from washing it etc. You might need a new chamber or silicone gaskets.

Also overtime the latch can get bent on some units. I watched my DME bend the metal contact to make a tighter seal when he set up an S8 auto for me last year as a loaner. Until he did this the lid wouldn't latch at all.

I can't figure out how the water level would effect the leak rate except that silicone seals better when it is dry and sticky, maybe it gets wet when filling or maybe it gets bumped in the night? Not sure just an idea.

Are you a mouth breather?
Do you have a bed partner who would hear it if you were?
Does your leak report vary throughout the night or is it consistently high?

One would think a equipment leak would be consistent and steady, however mask leaks or mouth breathing would have distinct peaks probably related to sleep stage or sleep position. Most people need more pressure and lose muscle tone during REM causing a temporary increase in leaks rates. A change sleep position can also cause leaks and you don't always remember. Just an idea.

Good luck, let us know.

[ozij]

Have you checked the cover seal on the lid - maybe it's torn, or needs resetling? (Ok, I see this was referred to).

http://www.resmed.com/us/assets/documen ... er_mul.pdf

You can get a new lid +seal from cpap.com
https://www.cpap.com/productpage/H3i-He ... -Seal.html

Or a kit to upgrade the H3i to the H4i

https://www.cpap.com/productpage/resmed ... r-kit.html.

While you're checking, check the connector seal as well.

O.

[Country4ever]

Thanks Big Daddy and Ozij,

I have read the humidifier guide and am doing everything right (except washing the gasket.......missed that part!). I'll check the edges of the plastic to see if there are any chips. This is the first time I ever washed the gasket so maybe that's all it needed. I'll try things without the tape soon, in case I don't really need it.
I tape my mouth, so I don't lose any air that way.
I don't have software, so I'm not sure when it all happens.
That the humidifier might be leaking made sense to me was that there were nights when I honestly felt I had no leaks, and my rate would still be really high (sometimes +.70 l/s). I felt something else was going on, since the increase in leak rate seemed to happen suddenly last January.
So I really think its a humidifier problem. I started feeling really bad again last January, when my leak rate went up. I think air was escaping before it even got to me. I tested the humidifier seams with soapy water and nothing showed up........but when I taped it and washed the gasket, big changes for the good showed up.
You might be right that it was a gasket issue. I'm embarrassed that I didn't know I was supposed to wash it.
I've had this humidifier since August of 2007, so maybe I do need a new one. But I'm thinking of upgrading to an S9 machine, so I'm trying to make do for a while longer.
Thanks for your responses!