OT - You betcha!

[DreamStalker]

Alaska fishermen still struggling 21 years after Exxon spill
http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/05/06/exxon. ... tml?hpt=C1
... doesn't even compare to oil well blowouts.

Drill baby drill !!



When I was a teen, Surfside Beach, Texas was the hip place to go during the summer. Then in 1979, Ixtoc-1 had a blowout offshore of Campeche Bay, Mexico, about 800 miles to the south and later that summer, Surfside Beach became known to us as Tar Ball Beach. Comming out of the surf after going swimming turned what ever you were wearing into a mocha brown color that did not come out even after going through the laundry machine. Quarter-sized tar balls stuck to everything. I have not gone back to the Texas coast for 30 years now.

Comparatively, the Ixtoch disaster was childs play compared to what the northern Gulf coast is just about to experience. Although the '79 Ixtoc blowout released oil into the gulf at almost twice the rate as the current Deepwater Horizon blowout, the Ixtoc crude was much less dense (composed mostly of gas and condensate) which allowed most of it to burn and/or evaporate at the sea surface. In other words, the Ixtoc crude was a much younger oil (geologically speaking), whereas the Deepwater Horizon oil is a much older, more dense oil with less gas and condensate. That means the oil mixes more easily with sea water into a foamy emulsion which is almost impossible to burn off, evaporate, or clean up. The location of the Deepwater Horizon is also much closer to important marine habitats (not that all marine habitats are not important) making it a real econimc (free-market arrrk!) disaster ... the northern Gulf Coast is screwed. And the "dispersants" they are trying to use are more likely to cause much more harm than good but hey, the Texas Governor says it's all an act of God ... dumb ass!

Oh well, at least those Bush-Cheney appointed oil industry regulators got some good free sex out of this whole mess. Drill baby drill !!!

We need to ban the tea in this country cuz things are just getting way out of hand.

The issue is not about too much government, it is about taking back government ... from mega-corporations like BP, and Exxon, and ConAgra, and Monsanto, and Coca-Cola, and General Mills, and Microsoft, and AT&T, and Goldman Sachs, and AIG, and BofA, and CitiGroup, and on and on. Remember "government of the people, by the people, for the people ..."?

I'm disgusted with all this anti-government crap propagandized by corporations onto conservative ignorants as socialism, liberalism, elitism, and all the other conservative tea party nonsense. Look around! Look what happened yesterday ... Wall Street is NOT a "free-market" ... it is rigged by corporate giants just like everything else.

Well now that I have vented, I feel a little better, til the next news cycle anyway.

[Wulfman]

You've overlooked some minor (?) details......$$$$$$$. Obama was the biggest recipient of $$$$$ from BP.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0510/36783.html


Den

[Tielman]

You've overlooked some minor (?) details......$$$$$$$. Obama was the biggest recipient of $$$$$ from BP.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0510/36783.html
Den

So, your saying that the leases were agreed to because BP payed Obama? and therefore it's Obama's disaster WOW! Lemme guess, George Bush was responsible for 9/11??

Reminds me of the Drudge Report saying the "Interior Director on rafting trip" while the rig was on fire. Gee, did they forget that it's the Coast Guard that takes responsibility for a burning rig? Oh, and while I'm at it, ONE SINGLE GUY could have saved the day, but was rafting on his family vacation??

It's not like this hasn't happened before, take a look at Wikipedia.

It's like most things, lack of oversight, and lack of regulations. Also, the companies use multiple vendors (like Halliburton, and the rig vendor) to reduce their footprint and liability in these types of issues.

Everyone seems to forget that it was Halliburton that was sealing the well, and less than 20 hrs later had a blow-out. Most of the oil-drillers I've been reading from say that it was most likely directly related to this issue that caused the blowout. The rig drillers who survived stated that the companies (all of them) were fast tracking everything and pushing to get it done fast, keeping safety to a minimum. There's your root cause, lack of proper procedures and safety put on a back seat.

Let's not forget that 11 people DIED.

[Made_in_1960]

Fox News, Limbaugh, Hannity, Coulter, Beck, etc, are all working hard to insure that "a government of the corporate special interests, by the corporate special interests and for the corporate special interests shall not perish from the face of the Earth".

I'd say more but I gotta get back to work before somebody ships my job off to India.

[DreamStalker]

You've overlooked some minor (?) details......$$$$$$$. Obama was the biggest recipient of $$$$$ from BP.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0510/36783.html


Den

I didn't overlook the $$$$$$ ... some details, perhaps ... but not the $$$$$.

The issue is not about too much government, it is about taking back government ... from mega-corporations like BP, and Exxon, and ConAgra, and Monsanto, and Coca-Cola, and General Mills, and Microsoft, and AT&T, and Goldman Sachs, and AIG, and BofA, and CitiGroup, and on and on. Remember "government of the people, by the people, for the people ..."?

That was exactly my main point. The corporations own our "elected" officials. Democrat, Republican, just two sides of the same coin.

My point was/is ... stop slamming government as if it is the problem. The problem is $$$$$$. More precisely, corporate $$$$$$. The problem is corporate $$$$$$ (unrestrained and unregulated greed).

In the old days they were called "robber barons" and government was taken back through a populist movement that allowed government to "bust" trusts and monopolies. Now they are called "too-big-to-fail". We need that populist movement again to take back the government and bust up "too-big-to-fail" corporations. We need to end corporate campaign financing. We need to end corporate entitlements. We need to end corporate ownership of our government.

[Wulfman]

You've overlooked some minor (?) details......$$$$$$$. Obama was the biggest recipient of $$$$$ from BP.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0510/36783.html
Den

So, your saying that the leases were agreed to because BP payed Obama? and therefore it's Obama's disaster WOW! Lemme guess, George Bush was responsible for 9/11??

Reminds me of the Drudge Report saying the "Interior Director on rafting trip" while the rig was on fire. Gee, did they forget that it's the Coast Guard that takes responsibility for a burning rig? Oh, and while I'm at it, ONE SINGLE GUY could have saved the day, but was rafting on his family vacation??

It's not like this hasn't happened before, take a look at Wikipedia.

It's like most things, lack of oversight, and lack of regulations. Also, the companies use multiple vendors (like Halliburton, and the rig vendor) to reduce their footprint and liability in these types of issues.

Everyone seems to forget that it was Halliburton that was sealing the well, and less than 20 hrs later had a blow-out. Most of the oil-drillers I've been reading from say that it was most likely directly related to this issue that caused the blowout. The rig drillers who survived stated that the companies (all of them) were fast tracking everything and pushing to get it done fast, keeping safety to a minimum. There's your root cause, lack of proper procedures and safety put on a back seat.

Let's not forget that 11 people DIED.

I've never said or implied anything of the sort
However, it's been implied by some (in the media) that the Bush administration was negligent when 9/11 took place.
Bush 41 had just come into office when the Exxon Valdez disaster took place (03/24/89)......he wasn't driving that boat either.
Somebody (apparently, according to the news yesterday) in some stock trading office "fat-fingered" a trade that sent the stock market into a 998 point free-fall yesterday. I seriously doubt that the present administration was responsible for that.

I live in an area that has been producing oil for nearly 100 years. I'm well aware of the issues and risks that go along with the industry. It all boils down to personal/corporate responsibility and actions. However, the companies have the money to influence the politicians when they NEED something.
There's still a huge amount of oil within the continental U.S. that COULD be drilled for if the politicians weren't so intimidated by the environmentalists.

Unfortunately, people die of "something", all the time.

DreamStalker, I agree with you, except for the remark you made about the Bush-Cheney administration......those people were probably bureaucrats and not politicians. We had a similar scenario in the SEC recently when they were watching porn on their work computers instead of watching those investment bankers on Wall Street.


Den

[Wulfman]

On the other hand, I'm not an apologist for the Bush-Cheney administration. They pissed me off about lots of things, too.


Den

[Tielman]

I've never said or implied anything of the sort
However, it's been implied by some (in the media) that the Bush administration was negligent when 9/11 took place.
Den

Sorry Den, I meant the coloquial "you", not YOU.

Your argument about Bush what exactly what I was referring to, way too much "HE should have stopped this" when it's a whole system involving lots and lots of people, and policies and procedures, and this is affecting both parties.

[DreamStalker]

DreamStalker, I agree with you, except for the remark you made about the Bush-Cheney administration......those people were probably bureaucrats and not politicians. We had a similar scenario in the SEC recently when they were watching porn on their work computers instead of watching those investment bankers on Wall Street.

Den

Yes, they were bureaucrats. But they were part of the industry cronyism ... and in both instances noted above, associated to Bush-Cheney cronyism. It does not mean that cronyism under Obama does not exist ... it is just the other side of the coin yet to be revealed. After all Obama endorsed the expansion of more drilling too fairly recently.

As for US oil, the estimated amounts of American oil reserves is completely and wholy dwarfed by what exists in the Middle East. Even Mexico has like 50% more oil reserves than the US (but they are illegal ). What the US is endowed with (or at least used to be before they began drinking so much tea), is education in science and engineering. The US should be focused on leading the world in renewable and sustainable energy technology ... not drilling for piddly reserves at the risk of harming that useless environment we live in, protected by evil environmentalists. Oil is finite and a day will come when there is no more. It is just plain stupid for the US to be drilling for oil when we can go steal it from the people of Iraq (and create Haliburton and other corporate crony jobs) or better yet, come up with our own carbon-free energy technology (and create green industry sector jobs).

[Wulfman]

DreamStalker, I agree with you, except for the remark you made about the Bush-Cheney administration......those people were probably bureaucrats and not politicians. We had a similar scenario in the SEC recently when they were watching porn on their work computers instead of watching those investment bankers on Wall Street.

Den

Yes, they were bureaucrats. But they were part of the industry cronyism ... and in both instances noted above, associated to Bush-Cheney cronyism. It does not mean that cronyism under Obama does not exist ... it is just the other side of the coin yet to be revealed. After all Obama endorsed the expansion of more drilling too fairly recently.

As for US oil, the estimated amounts of American oil reserves is completely and wholy dwarfed by what exists in the Middle East. Even Mexico has like 50% more oil reserves than the US (but they are illegal ). What the US is endowed with (or at least used to be before they began drinking so much tea), is education in science and engineering. The US should be focused on leading the world in renewable and sustainable energy technology ... not drilling for piddly reserves at the risk of harming that useless environment we live in, protected by evil environmentalists. Oil is finite and a day will come when there is no more. It is just plain stupid for the US to be drilling for oil when we can go steal it from the people of Iraq (and create Haliburton and other corporate crony jobs) or better yet, come up with our own carbon-free energy technology (and create green industry sector jobs).

Depends on what you read and what you want to believe.

http://www.nextenergynews.com/news1/nex ... 2.13s.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 00275.html

In reality, there's enough blame (for "whatever") to spread around on numerous current and previous administrations.
The cronyism in the present one (and the direction they're taking this country) has the pee-waddin' scared out of me.


Den

[Wulfman]

They were just discussing the drop in oil prices on FBN......so, I looked for a link to see a chart.

Interesting.......

http://money.cnn.com/data/commodities/


Den

[Tielman]

They were just discussing the drop in oil prices on FBN......so, I looked for a link to see a chart.
Interesting....... http://money.cnn.com/data/commodities/
Den

Nothing to do with the Gulf, totally related to Europe and the issues there, and lastly: Expected.

[DreamStalker]

DreamStalker, I agree with you, except for the remark you made about the Bush-Cheney administration......those people were probably bureaucrats and not politicians. We had a similar scenario in the SEC recently when they were watching porn on their work computers instead of watching those investment bankers on Wall Street.

Den

Yes, they were bureaucrats. But they were part of the industry cronyism ... and in both instances noted above, associated to Bush-Cheney cronyism. It does not mean that cronyism under Obama does not exist ... it is just the other side of the coin yet to be revealed. After all Obama endorsed the expansion of more drilling too fairly recently.

As for US oil, the estimated amounts of American oil reserves is completely and wholy dwarfed by what exists in the Middle East. Even Mexico has like 50% more oil reserves than the US (but they are illegal ). What the US is endowed with (or at least used to be before they began drinking so much tea), is education in science and engineering. The US should be focused on leading the world in renewable and sustainable energy technology ... not drilling for piddly reserves at the risk of harming that useless environment we live in, protected by evil environmentalists. Oil is finite and a day will come when there is no more. It is just plain stupid for the US to be drilling for oil when we can go steal it from the people of Iraq (and create Haliburton and other corporate crony jobs) or better yet, come up with our own carbon-free energy technology (and create green industry sector jobs).

Depends on what you read and what you want to believe.

http://www.nextenergynews.com/news1/nex ... 2.13s.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 00275.html

In reality, there's enough blame (for "whatever") to spread around on numerous current and previous administrations.
The cronyism in the present one (and the direction they're taking this country) has the pee-waddin' scared out of me.


Den

Well I don't believe the big corporate players who stand to profit from drilling, I can tell you that. They are playing loose with words to convince the ignorant that "drill baby drill" is a good thing.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/gasoline/bakken.asp

3.6 billion is a bit less than the 200 billion they report.

Still not worth the environmental risks and even if it was ... what happens when that runs out and we are unprepared with an alternative energy?

[Wulfman]

Still not worth the environmental risks and even if it was ... what happens when that runs out and we are unprepared with an alternative energy?

Ummmmm......."necessity is the mother of invention"........???

Yeah, that's another issue I've been PO'd about since the early '70's.

There are fewer environmental risks ON-shore than there are OFF-shore. (in my opinion)


Den

[DreamStalker]

Still not worth the environmental risks and even if it was ... what happens when that runs out and we are unprepared with an alternative energy?

Ummmmm......."necessity is the mother of invention"........???

Yeah, that's another issue I've been PO'd about since the early '70's.

There are fewer environmental risks ON-shore than there are OFF-shore. (in my opinion)


Den

It is all relative I suppose.

Here in Texas, the on-shore drilling has historically polluted groundwater reservoirs (the drilling leaves behind older brine waters that seep back into the ground and mix with good water). Clean water is much more important than oil (in my opinion).

Not even a full news cycle and this comes out ... on Friday afternoon ... to lessen the outrage .

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/ynews_ts1965

Surely this will be struck down as unconstitutional.