Question for S9 data users

[bigk]

People are entitled to draw their own conclusions, either way. If you like the machine, by all means wax lyrical about it, but please don't criticise those who are having (minor) problems with it for saying so or for trying to work out why the problem is happening or how to prevent it.

Yes and don't you criticise me likewise for pointing out it is indeed a minor problem instead of the end of the world as it is being painted. I have just as much right to be heard as do you.

[gpk111]

Silver,
As to the size of the card, consider this: The compliance data (up to 365 days) takes up very little space on the SD card. The detailed (breath by breath data) takes up 2 - 3 MB per day (depending on how long you sleep), but is restricted to 8 days. Then the last day is overwritten. 3 MB X 8 days is only 24 MB plus the summary data for up to 365 days is way less than that. Say 10 MB. So the card only requires 50 MB or less to be fully usable. Therefore in theory, anything more than 256MB is overkill.

Having said that, I tried a slow 256MB card to no avail. Cards greater than 1GB seem to work. I have not tested speeds. There may be a certain speed requirement as well. In addition, those afflicted with the "skew bug" are theorizing that the speed of the card may be factor. That may have fallen by the wayside. I don't think ResScan cares about the speed of the card, since I've used slow cards and my digital camera as a reader.

Bottom line: I think a cheap medium speed 1 GB card should do the trick.

[alterego61]

People are entitled to draw their own conclusions, either way. If you like the machine, by all means wax lyrical about it, but please don't criticise those who are having (minor) problems with it for saying so or for trying to work out why the problem is happening or how to prevent it.

Yes and don't you criticise me likewise for pointing out it is indeed a minor problem instead of the end of the world as it is being painted. I have just as much right to be heard as do you.

No-one is saying it's the end of the world - I said it was a minor problem, you don't need to repeat what I said like you did in your previous posts as well. People can figure it out for themselves. Why not focus on what you like about the machine and tell us about it if that's your ticket?

[gpk111]

Strong personalities aside...

Ego,
Can't you just take it to your DME and exchange the S9? My DME claims there's a one year warranty. No questions asked. Haven't tried it, but most DME's do some wheeling and dealing.

Gerry

[alterego61]

Gerry,

Thanks for the suggestion but my DME has not yet been willing to do so. They are not allowed to sell the software and are so far unwilling to acknowledge that there is a problem with the S9 itself. ResMed told me yesterday that they know about the problem, but it is with ResScan not with the S9.

I think Nord was able to exchange his S9, but for other reasons.

BTW it's alterego, or alter for short. Ego is my twin brother - I don't have one

[gpk111]

Since there's some fun hair splitting going on here, I offer this musing:

While the skew bug does not affect therapy directly, if you're a quant-head, the lack of accurate detailed feedback could cause you to lose sleep!

hmmmmmmmmm

[gpk111]

Alter,
Tell the DME there's something else wrong with it ...intermittently. That always works with the no-questions-asked crowd. A bug like that on a new machine would drive my ego crazy!

Gerry

[alterego61]

Gerry, thanks, if ResMed confirms it's an S9 problem I might do that. I'm not going to take a day off work to do so if it's still possible the problem lies with ResScan though.

[Nord]

First:
My apologies to Silver for my part in this Thread Heist... and I will take some extra time to describe the background to my choices.

The S9 is a great therapy machine for OSA and indeed, may be the best one available right now. For me, the breathing pattern is very natural and completely comfortable. If I were to choose a machine again, knowing its minor problems, I would definitely choose the S9. I believe that you will be happy with your choice when it arrives from your sister.

Some background:
Since one of the advantages of the S9/ H5i is the Humidifier/ heated hose system with sensing abilities, I looked forward to "no more rainout". Unfortunately my first S9/ H5i in early March was not working properly after I got the ClimateLine Hose after the backorder ended. After talking with ResMed, they said it wasn't working properly. My DME exchanged my S9/ H5i for ResMed Rep's machine when he arrived later that week.

After a week of trying, I had the same problems with the humification and could not isolate whether the S9/ H5i or ClimateLine was at fault. The Rep wanted it exchanged for a "new in box" machine. I switched it out again. My third machine in 5 weeks. This one corrected all the humidity problems and works perfectly that way. The Humidification system works so well, that I can sense the difference between humidity level at 78 Deg and 80 Deg. I do not have allergies or sinus issues but breathing through your nose all night can make you sensitive to everything.

As I stated earlier, all 3 machines have felt/ sounded the same and that is also comforting. For me, they have a great algorhythm on EPR that I use at 2 cm for Exhalation relief and a Med profile for Inhalation. Because my pressure is set fairly low at 7 cm.. I do not use the Ramp feature. If you also use a lower pressure and feel the ramp does not allow enough air through, then try setting it to "Off".

For the RECORD: All 3 machines have similar serial numbers, and similar Lot numbers and ALL have exhibited Progressive Skew Issues.

The Data Collection and Presentation of the S9 is second to none (Skew issue aside). You will be able to follow much of the nightly totals on the LCD readout as others have pointed out. For Detailed Breath by Breath graphics you can download each session (12pm to 12pm) into the ResScan Software. This is where the Skew issue takes place and can become annoying. The rest of the package is so good... you would like it to work properly but for some ( few?? many?? ) it just won't and can get progressively worse on the graphs. If you are unlucky enough to encounter the Skew, you will likely want to reformat your SD card every 10 to 15 mask sessions until a "cure or workaround" is found. No big deal except for the few people working to isolate this issue and perhaps stumble upon a workaround... until ResMed officially comes to the rescue.

When using the S9, there are many threads that you should search to "guess" at correct operating procedure and many people subscribe to different ones. If you like, ask several people how they operate and I'm sure they will provide you with all the "in's and out's" and you can make some choices. Your S9 will come with an OEM SD card @ 1 Gig and already formatted and ready to collect data. I would suggest that you continue to use that card and if you buy another, stick to at least Class 2 or Class 4. We have no tests that have suggested that better cards work any better than the ResMed card.

There are between 15 and 20 people with confirmed reported Skew here at CPAPtalk.
Several people here at this Forum have noted the Skew and are waiting for a cure to be revealed.
No one is sure how many people have the Skew issue and don't care one way or another.
No one is sure how many people have checked for the Skew.
No one is sure how many people have checked and found no Skew at all.
And... there are a few people who have checked and reported NO skew at all.
Three of those people are identified here in this thread: billbolton, bigk and gpk111 and there is one other that has ID'ed themselves to me.
There are probably others who fit into all these categories.

Nobody knows for sure, how many cases there are, as there is no "official" Worldwide or even CPAPtalk survey... and everybody is getting a little tired hearing about the Skew...
including the people most active in working on it (myself included).
We all would like ResMed to take over this investigation. Hopefully they are working on it now.

That said... it seams that I should address some questions that were directed my way...

Many people here own and enjoy ResMed including me, but... your blind intolerance for anybody that says that ResMed isn't perfect makes me wonder about your motives.

um... no.

But, I for one would like to hear you actually say something positive about others ( ResMed doesn't count ).

I have no idea what you are trying to say here.

bigk: (this treatise includes billbolton)
Your first answer, is not an answer.
I'm not at all sure why your intolerance for me stating that I, along with others, are having problems with our machines is reason for you to pay any attention at all,
but to post... again... that you have "no problems" therefore no one else can have a problem (and you have said that)...
is, by definition... intolerance for us because we differ with you.
What makes me wonder about your motives are, is that... I'm just not sure what you gain by minimizing our problems.

Yet you seem to go out of your way to say that:
1. We are incompetent at operating our machines properly...
2. We have some unknown problems that make us unable to see properly that the machine is perfect in every way...
3. We have some ulterior motives ourselves, that we have, as a group, conspired to undermine ResMed's S9...

Almost every thread posted about the S9 and any problem related to it, you and billbolton have posted to defend the reputation of the S9 for some unstated reason.
You seem to feel that our noted problems lessen your enjoyment of your own machine, that supposedly has no Skew ???

I have no, I repeat ( I risk this on the basis that you don't seem to hear me)... no problem with you having a different opinion than I do.
I am only too pleased to discuss yours and my POV when that happens.
But I do tire of having to defend "my right" to have a different opinion than you every time there is a thread.

And the fact that you generally take quotes "out of context" and choose only to focus on one part of any statement made...
leads me to believe that this practise of short, argumentative comments is more about baiting people and being destructive
to their opinions as opposed being co-operative and expressing your own POV.
Perhaps you think that is success.

I believe that everyone reading these threads is an adult with their own powers of deduction.
If the thread affects them one way or another they may post their opinion or not care at all and just move forward.
Or, perhaps you think that no one has noticed...

Here's you chance to reply again...
Do not take my comments out of context and
Try for an answer that is worthy of your Point of View...
Don't tell me again why I haven't got a Skew problem and why I should not try to "track" the symptoms or "fix" the problem.
Or maybe ResMed is really working on the problem and you knew that all the time....

I'll just have to wait for your answer.

Cheers (and I mean that just how billbolton does)
Nord

[Nord]

Strong personalities aside...

Ego,
Can't you just take it to your DME and exchange the S9? My DME claims there's a one year warranty. No questions asked. Haven't tried it, but most DME's do some wheeling and dealing.

Gerry

Hi Gerry

I have had Three S9's as a result of humidifier problems. Just to put in perspective... all the humidifier symptoms were dealt with by ResMed themselves.
And... all three have exhibited Progressive Skew. Perhaps it was bad luck... perhaps the problem is widespread.
I don't know and I'm not even sure that ResMed knows since we're dealing with software that they don't think we should have.

I know that a few of us have been in touch with ResMed and are awaiting answers.

Nord

[DreamDiver]

... everybody is getting a little tired hearing about the Skew... including the people most active in working on it (myself included).

I know I'm tired. Can we just put this in the drawer for a while?

[silver123]

thanks to everyone for all the comments and information. It's all very interesting.

I have worked for US company focused on the hardware and software development in the medical industry. There are very specific procedures usually applied in the development process of either. In particular, product managers define the product based on user's needs. In the case of OSA equipment, just who is the user? Us hoseheads or the professional medical industry involved in the treatment of OSA? It seems to me that Resmed has paid some attention to the needs of us folk who wear this stuff every night and tried to balance that with clinician's needs. I have nothing against Resmed and want the best I can get for treatment. I do not like the lock down on pricing they have instigated nor their ban on shipment to Canada and do not understand how that does not violate free trade agreements or other consumer protection laws. But...such is life.

The other major task a product manager does in the early stages of development is to define product requirements, which defines just what the product is supposed to do and often, how it is supposed to do that though that moves in to the arena of specifications. Each requirement must be traceable for good quality control and to guarantee that the product does do what it was designed to do. In the case of the skew bug, there was obviously some breakdown in the follow through on a requirement of the product in terms of its ability to accurately report data in a graphical report so that all data is reported in relation to time. Someone did not catch this error and if it is an error that shows up with time, it points to an error in the QA testing of the reporting over time. Normally, software and hardware get hammered in testing.

What concerns me is the failure of the process of a company in the development of a medical device. If this is an error that shows up over time, what if it was not just a reporting variable that is not critical to treatment? What if it was something more important that was just not caught? Or was this identified and because it was not critical, was allowed to get through, the we'll-fix-it-later attitude, which does happen. I do not care if that company is Remed, Brand X or whatever.
Considering all the hoops we have to go to get access to this equipment and then pay enormous prices for, I am not impressed. Quality concerns are the major failure in medical technology and contribute quite definitively to medical errors in treatment.

[Muse-Inc]

...very specific procedures usually applied in the development process..

Been in the software dev industry for more yrs than I care to admit Helped 2 companies get SEI CMM and CMMI Level 2 assessments much faster than the expected 24 months...key to both was tightly and fully defining the requirements up front then ensuring each work product satisfied those requirements, every single one of them. I suspect ResMed failed to create tightly and full-defined requirements or failed to ensure each work product was inspected against the requirements. For awhile I was an CMM SQA Analyst with the power in that company to stop all prj activity if I detected variances from defined procedures that I considered a threat to the quality of continued dev or the final product...no fun to present my findings for stopping a key prj to a company VP...think quaking in my running shoes In the end, he supported what I did, chewed out the prj mgr for cutting corners (failure to comply with defined procedures), and I got a huge bonus that year. ResMed makes a great product (can ya tell I'm a fan) but someone got sloppy with ensuring no probs with all aspects of data reporting. Maybe that old thing of you can any 2 of these 3 but not all 3: fast, good, inexpensive. Or, too much rush to market compromising this aspect of testing.

[billbolton]

Almost every thread posted about the S9 and any problem related to it, you and billbolton have posted to defend the reputation of the S9 for some unstated reason.

I can't speak for anyone else but I've have certainly posted when I see an unsupportable assertion..... such as the one above.... which have been appearing all too frequently in these threads.

Playing fast and loose with facts under the guise of "opinion" is never a good policy.

leads me to believe that this practise of short, argumentative comments is more about baiting people

To-the-point comments on specific issues are quite appropriate in discussion, whether you happen to like them or not.

Long ad hominum attacks (etc) are the things that are clearly about baiting people

[Nord]

Almost every thread posted about the S9 and any problem related to it, you and billbolton have posted to defend the reputation of the S9 for some unstated reason.

I can't speak for anyone else but I've have certainly posted when I see an unsupportable assertion..... such as the one above.... which have been appearing all too frequently in these threads.

Playing fast and loose with facts under the guise of "opinion" is never a good policy.

leads me to believe that this practise of short, argumentative comments is more about baiting people

To-the-point comments on specific issues are quite appropriate in discussion, whether you happen to like them or not.

Long ad hominum attacks (etc) are the things that are clearly about baiting people

Very obviously... billbolton is always in charge of the "facts"... just ask him.

And again he doesn't point to any "facts"... just his own unsupported assertions that he has the only good opinions; the only good policy and the only good facts.

Very obviously... when billbolton doesn't believe it... then people are just baiting you. Talk about self righteous, self centered, bloated opinion.

Look in the mirror and pinch yourself... nobody takes you as seriously as you take yourself.

Cheers (don't take this the wrong way)
Nord