Legality of unscripted resale by those in sleep field

[kteague]

Couldn't one in the sleep industry who sells used cpaps on Craigslist be risking getting in trouble? What would the charges be in such a case? Would the buyer have any liability if they knowingly bought such a machine, even though it was posted as by an owner and not as a dealer? Just wondering.

[rosacer]

Good question
[quote]Couldn't one in the sleep industry who sells used cpaps on Craigslist be risking getting in trouble? What would the charges be in such a case? Would the buyer have any liability if they knowingly bought such a machine, even though it was posted as by an owner and not as a dealer? /quote]

I will wonder farther than that:

If dealers needs a prescription to sell a used machine wouldn't this be the same for an owner to sell his used machine? I need to say I can't understand why is this prescriptions need for machines and for mask, for masks; I have never seen people wearing cpap mask on Halloween. What can I say?

[Nord]

I would say that there is no Criminal Law being broken although some States, Provinces, Territories etc may have written specific laws for this but I doubt it very much. Usually laws broken in regards to prescriptions is related to Food and Drug Acts where the basic item has some restrictions.

Although it would seem to me that there is a lawsuit waiting to happen for people re-selling machines. Anyone considering re-selling should consider a signed liability waiver.

Nord

[sleepycarol]

I have wondered the same thing Kathy.

As I understand your post -- these are not your patients that have upgraded or switched machines, but rather they are a business that sells machines and supplies. Instead of selling the surplus through their retail outlet they advertise on craigslist. It would appear to me that they would be liable since they have a license to sell the stuff.

I have also wondered if it is a type of bait and switch -- get people to respond and then hound them for additional supplies or "up-graded" machines.

[dave21]

I would think that for someone that sold 1 or 2 or <10 in a year there wouldn't be much of a problem but for someone that was a prolific seller and sold maybe 200 a year then I could see a lawsuit waiting to happen.

[kteague]

I know the part about private individuals selling their machine has been discussed in great length on here, and I understand it is different for a private individual than for a medical provider, as they are the ones working within licensure parameters. How could one not authorized to fill prescriptions be held to a standard of requiring one?

But I'm just wondering if a DME can legally sell their returned masks and machines without a prescription? I'm hoping one of our DMEs will give us a straight-from-the-horse's-mouth answer.

[steelheadid]

Good questions. I would think that this is a question that needs to be asked of the Pharmacy board or local medical oversight agency since this is a written prescription. Also what would be the ramifications if you were to sell or give a machine to someone and that person had an adverse reaction to the machine what would the legal repercussions be? I am sure that with all of the cpap auctions and these items even being sold on Amazon and Ebay that it is legal. Remember that this is considered to be Durable Medical Equipment just like a wheelchair or crutches which unless for insurance purposes a prescription is not needed.

[roster]

Come on guys, we need to get the machines off prescription requirement altogether. Let's open up the distribution channels and get a fluid market for both new and used machines.

I want to see them sold at flea markets.

An automobile is a heck of a lot more dangerous than a CPAP and you don't need a script to buy or sell one.

Let's don't make this any more difficult for patients.

[kteague]

Rooster, I'm not wanting to make it harder for people who need cpaps to get them. That would be cutting my nose off to spite my face, cause I've bought 3 machines off the grid. And it's in considering another purchase that I ran into this question. I'm just asking if, as the law stands now, the seller is doing anything illegal.

[Wulfman]

Rooster, I'm not wanting to make it harder for people who need cpaps to get them. That would be cutting my nose off to spite my face, cause I've bought 3 machines off the grid. And it's in considering another purchase that I ran into this question. I'm just asking if, as the law stands now, the seller is doing anything illegal.

If it IS "illegal", there have been lots of illegal transactions taking place......and for years.
Nobody seems to be prosecuting the sellers and purchasers, and there isn't enough prison space for the guilty parties.


Den

[Goofproof]

Our government has over 100,000 laws in force, made up mostly for private concerns not because their's a real need. Most laws are made to give someone a profit edge over a group of people or make a new item mandatory so more profit can be made from it. I for one don't worry about breaking any law but the ten commandments. We all are guilty of breaking mans laws, it just our bad it we get caught at it.

If I don't have to get a script for my lawn blower, I sure don't need one for a XPAP. We all know right from wrong, why let others set rules for us. Jim

[DreamDiver]

Our government has over 100,000 laws in force, made up mostly for private concerns not because their's a real need. Most laws are made to give someone a profit edge over a group of people or make a new item mandatory so more profit can be made from it. I for one don't worry about breaking any law but the ten commandments. We all are guilty of breaking mans laws, it just our bad it we get caught at it.

If I don't have to get a script for my lawn blower, I sure don't need one for a XPAP. We all know right from wrong, why let others set rules for us. Jim

Most of us break laws daily. Borrowing your neighbor's wifi is stealing, but some of our neighbors leave their wifi open because they want to share, even if the ISP doesn't want them to.

Laws are different from region to region, country to country. At certain hours of the day, everyone on I-85 is traveling at 85mph in Atlanta on a daily basis, even where it's posted at 55mph. Moving at 55mph might actually be more dangerous when everyone else is traveling 30 mph faster. But traveling at 85mph on the New Jersey Turnpike, though will get you a ticket. In NJ, the speed is enforced. There seems to be an unwritten 'amendment' in a similar law in Georgia though, because the speed isn't often enforced. Traveling through Maryland with a radar detector is illegal, yet they're built into many cars in some states. Should Maryland police be allowed to impound cars when they can't simply confiscate the radar detector from the vehicle?

Yes some laws are stupid. Some are intended to protect those with means. Laws against the distribution of narcotics without a prescription seem appropriate, but laws against distribution of xPAP machines seems unreasonable. Ironically, machine makers would probably make more money overall, if a prescription were not required. The real culprit seems to be DME and insurance industry lobbies, bent on sucking patients' pockets dry under the guise of 'health safety'. There is probably more immediate danger from a mercury thermometer than there is a from a CPAP machine, yet we are where we are.

All goverments are social contracts of citizens with each other. Unfortunately, though most of us might not want to admit it, all governments are inherently socialist to some extent. To that end, we have an obligation to uphold laws, but attempt to get them changed when they are stupid.

Driving 55 vs. 85 is handled in different ways in different states - different social contracts. Is one better than the other? I don't know. Maybe they just 'are'. But a federal law restricting the sale of mercury thermometers seems like a smarter one than the need for a prescription for xPAP.

A member of the public is likely not liable for selling a solitary machine without a prescription. An licensed industry manufacturer or reseller is held to a different standard and may actually lose licensure. Depending on state of federal laws there may also be fines or even jail time involved. I don't know.

[LinkC]

I understand it is different for a private individual than for a medical provider

It's not different at all! The law applies to everyone. Legally, CPAP equipment requires a prescription. It is illegal for it to be sold, given or transferred to anyone who does not possess a valid perscription for it. That's one of MANY laws routinely not enforced, of course. But that doesn't make it legal.

Would you say that selling my unused oxycontin on craigslist is ok? It's the same situation, and same law.

[roster]

Would you say that selling my unused oxycontin on craigslist is ok? It's the same situation, and same law.

Now Linksy, that is quite a stretch this early in the morning.

Go eat your egg and drink your orange juice and Metamucil and you'll get over it.

(PM me about your unused oxycontin as soon as you can.)

[LinkC]

If you think the law is unnecessary, fight to have it changed.

It appears we're all agreed that the answer to the original question is "yes". However, some of us are now admitted felons....and others are wannabees.

Man, y'all got SO MANY excuses to break the law!

(And I don't think referencing the Ten Commandments when you're in front of Judge Judy is gonna fly! BTW, which ten do you go by? There are actually 623 commandments in the books of law...none of them specified as being more important than the others. I sure hope you keep the Feast of Unleavened bread. And refrain from boiling a kid in its mother's milk!)