Question about Face Mask or Chin Strap for Mouth Breathing

Barb (Seattle) · Post by **Barb (Seattle)** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 2:38 pm

I think until the problem of air coming through your lips is solved, there will be no chin strap that keeps one from mouth breathing...IMHO.

Try an experiment (I read this here somewhere) Clinch your jaw and see if you can breathe in and out. I can because even though my jaw is "set" air can come through. When you fall asleep, your lips go loose and the air escapes

Barnaby · Post by **Barnaby** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 2:47 pm

Stephanie...I dont know what the ruby red thing is..I got from my dme a thingy called the Tiara..which i saw on the net. It cups the chin and doesnt slide. It does the job for me. I use the swift nasal pillows and last night..first time in 6 mths...I slept well and didnt have a dry mouth in the morning.

fnorette · Post by **fnorette** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 4:33 pm

The Ruby Red and Topaz are both made by Tiara (I have the Topaz), the only difference being that the Topaz is adjustable while the Ruby Red comes in three fixed sizes. Very comfortable IMO, but only during cold weather .

Barb (Seattle) · Post by **Barb (Seattle)** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 9:33 pm

[quote="Barnaby"]Stephanie...I dont know what the ruby red thing is..I got from my dme a thingy called the Tiara..which i saw on the net. It cups the chin and doesnt slide. It does the job for me. I use the swift nasal pillows and last night..first time in 6 mths...I slept well and didnt have a dry mouth in the morning.

MartiniLover · Post by **MartiniLover** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 6:31 am

Last week I got my sixth mask, a Comfort Full Face Mask and I love it.

I have tried many and thought a full mask might be intimidating but so far it has been a dream. No pressure points to annoy me, and as a side sleeper I have always had a problem with knocking the mask off. This time I haven't noticed it so much.

My DME provided the mask for free so this is the mask I got, but if I was buying out of pocket I would go for one of the more expensive ones. Hopefully they would be even better. (Just my thoughts)

lynn · Post by **lynn** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 9:08 am

Until very recently, I have found it necessary to tape my mouth to try to stop mouth leaks. I have had no luck with Ultra Mirage full-face mask - too many leaks. At my six-month follow-up at the sleep doc, it was obvious I was still experiencing excessive leaks. I was issued a chinstrap (Respironics Premium), went home with it and totally REFUSED to use it as I agreed with you, Barb in Seattle, that clenching your jaw shut still would allow air to puff out through your lips. Well, I was getting to the end of my rope when one morning I damaged a lip from tearing off tape. I had to avoid tape for a few days. I was getting so terribly tired that in a weak moment I broke down and used the evil, medieval-looking chinstrap, along with my beloved Swift nasal pillows.

I couldn't believe it! It actually worked. I had no dry mouth in the a.m. and I am feeling better. NO TAPE! Maybe all this time I have also been training myself to keep the trap shut and tongue in place! Who knew.

dkeat, I hope the Respironics chinstrap works for you, too. I, too, was already looking at alternative chinstraps. (Now that I'm part of the chinstrap club, aren't we always looking for greener grass even if the current one is just fine?) I received an opinion that the Tiara Topaz (related to the Ruby?) tends to draw the jaw aft - which is not considered a good thing for keeping the airway open. I have neither seen one in person nor used one, so just passing that along fyi. If you look at photo of one, it does appear that it might draw the chin backwards??

Good luck!

lynn in Seattle

P. S. Hey there, Martini Lover, if the Comfort Full ain't broke, why fix it! (i know...it's that "greener grass" thing.)

kurtr · Post by **kurtr** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 9:29 am

Will,

I am using the Breeze and Ruby chinstrap also to prevent mouth breathing. Can you elaborate on the tongue position issue? Are you saying that you can keep your tongue in a certain position while you sleep?
Thanks.......

WillSucceed · Post by **WillSucceed** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 11:27 am

Stunned1 wrote:

Do you find you feel more rested in the morning with a nasal mask as opposed to a FF mask? Do you think the treatment is better because of less chance of major air leaks?

I feel very rested in the morning after using the Breeze nasal mask. As long as the mask you are using, no matter which mask it is, is not leaking AND you are not mouth-breathing, you should be getting appropriate treatment (this assumes that your pressure is titrated correctly) and should feel rested.
There could be other health factors that impact sleep but, if the mask fits, does not leak and you don't mouth breath, you should feel rested. I don't think that one mask is significantly better than another as fit and comfort are highly idiosyncratic

kurtr wrote:

I am using the Breeze and Ruby chinstrap also to prevent mouth breathing. Can you elaborate on the tongue position issue? Are you saying that you can keep your tongue in a certain position while you sleep?

I don't know if we can actually "train" ourselves to keep our tongue in a certain position or not. I think that I mouth-breathed as much as I did because my nose was so congested all the time. Allergies, etc. So, when I started CPAP I was going to buy a full-face mask but hated it when I tried it. The supplier person encouraged me to try nasal pillows and to see my Dr. about Nasonex to reduce the inflamation in my nose. Also, she suggested practicing, all the time, keeping my tongue pushed gently against the back of my upper, front teeth. The top 1/3 of your tongue is touching the roof of your mouth, just behind your front teeth. In this position, your tongue is creating the seal that you need at the back of your throat so that you are nose-breathing.
I did not think I would ever get past the mouth-breathing and made heavy use of chinstraps, ACE bandages, tape, Duo-Derm and, I even bought a thin silicone baking sheet so that I could cut out a piece that would fit between my teeth and lips, with tape over top of my lips, in an effort to make a good seal. That failed... I've heard of others on this forum trying to adapt their Oracle mask in an effort to create a mouth-seal.
I also think that having really good quality (Hepa) filter material in the air intake on your machine and, as clean as possible water/humidifier tank helps. -->Anything that reduces the allergins that are being inhaled has to help.

Now, I put water in the humdifier tank, slip the Breeze on, hit the button, shut my big mouth and that's it. See you in the morning. No dry throat and the leak line on the Silverlining data analysis graph is very, but not entirely, flat.

WillSucceed · Post by **WillSucceed** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 11:30 am

dkeat wrote:

Funny that on this forum, at least, the Comfort Lite gets mixed reviews. I looked at the FAQs and saw that you were happy with it but many felt it was not what they were looking for

I do really like the Comfort-Lite. If you are going to try one, wait until the new headgear comes out. I spoke with the Respironics rep. just a little over a week ago and he assured me that the new headgear will be softer and more comfortable. Also, that it will be forgiving of lots of rock & Rolling in bed. I've not seen it on the Respironics website yet, but I am watching for it. The existing nasal pillows will fit the new headgear.

coffee_addict · Post by **coffee_addict** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 1:50 pm

WillSucceed wrote:Stunned1 wrote:
Do you find you feel more rested in the morning with a nasal mask as opposed to a FF mask? Do you think the treatment is better because of less chance of major air leaks?
I feel very rested in the morning after using the Breeze nasal mask. As long as the mask you are using, no matter which mask it is, is not leaking AND you are not mouth-breathing, you should be getting appropriate treatment (this assumes that your pressure is titrated correctly) and should feel rested.
There could be other health factors that impact sleep but, if the mask fits, does not leak and you don't mouth breath, you should feel rested. I don't think that one mask is significantly better than another as fit and comfort are highly idiosyncratic

kurtr wrote:
I am using the Breeze and Ruby chinstrap also to prevent mouth breathing. Can you elaborate on the tongue position issue? Are you saying that you can keep your tongue in a certain position while you sleep?
I don't know if we can actually "train" ourselves to keep our tongue in a certain position or not. I think that I mouth-breathed as much as I did because my nose was so congested all the time. Allergies, etc. So, when I started CPAP I was going to buy a full-face mask but hated it when I tried it. The supplier person encouraged me to try nasal pillows and to see my Dr. about Nasonex to reduce the inflamation in my nose. Also, she suggested practicing, all the time, keeping my tongue pushed gently against the back of my upper, front teeth. The top 1/3 of your tongue is touching the roof of your mouth, just behind your front teeth. In this position, your tongue is creating the seal that you need at the back of your throat so that you are nose-breathing.
I did not think I would ever get past the mouth-breathing and made heavy use of chinstraps, ACE bandages, tape, Duo-Derm and, I even bought a thin silicone baking sheet so that I could cut out a piece that would fit between my teeth and lips, with tape over top of my lips, in an effort to make a good seal. That failed... I've heard of others on this forum trying to adapt their Oracle mask in an effort to create a mouth-seal.
I also think that having really good quality (Hepa) filter material in the air intake on your machine and, as clean as possible water/humidifier tank helps. -->Anything that reduces the allergins that are being inhaled has to help.

Now, I put water in the humdifier tank, slip the Breeze on, hit the button, shut my big mouth and that's it. See you in the morning. No dry throat and the leak line on the Silverlining data analysis graph is very, but not entirely, flat.

WillSucceed-

So did the chin strap and your other fixes fix the mouth breathing until your tongue training kicked in? How long did it take before you were able to stop using the chinstrap?

Thanks.

Severeena · Post by **Severeena** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 2:10 pm

Stephanie I sleep on my side all the time and I use the Hans Rudolph Full Face mask.

I have no air leaks and my Auto Spirit says my mask is poor.

What can I say when it is a ResMed machine geared for the obscene full face mask ResMed makes.

Good Love my Hans Rudolph.

Stephanie411 · Post by **Stephanie411** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 5:19 pm

Thanks for all the great suggestions. Since I'm due for a new mask in a month through insurance, I'll try the Ruby strap first and see how that goes. I think Barb's point is a good one; even when my tongue is in the right place, lots of air comes through my teeth. I may need to go with the full face. And since I'm a side sleeper, it's good to know the Mirage stays in place.

You guys are great!

dkeat · Post by **dkeat** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 9:47 am

[quote="Severeena"]Stephanie I sleep on my side all the time and I use the Hans Rudolph Full Face mask.

I have no air leaks and my Auto Spirit says my mask is poor.

What can I say when it is a ResMed machine geared for the obscene full face mask ResMed makes.

Good Love my Hans Rudolph.

Severeena · Post by **Severeena** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 1:18 pm

The Hans Rudolph I use is a Full Face Mask.

What makes it so great is, small is small in the Ultra Mirage, Medium is Medium and Large is Large.

The HAns Rudolph head gear is like a cap, adjustable for comfort. You have the straps coming off of the cap and the straps are also adjustable.

There is a wide range of sizes with nose pieces to customize the mask for a better fit.

Leakage 0.14LS Mask excellent. I have not seen lower numbers with some of the other masks.

I hope this helps.

Severeena · Post by **Severeena** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 1:18 pm

The Hans Rudolph I use is a Full Face Mask.

What makesother masks so hard to fit is, small is small , Medium is Medium and Large is Large. No other sizes.

There is a wide range of sizes with nose pieces to customize the mask for a better fit.

The Hans Rudolph head gear is like a cap, adjustable for comfort. You have the straps coming off of the cap to the mask are also adjustable.

Leakage 0.14LS Mask excellent. I have not seen lower numbers with some of the other masks.

I hope this helps.

_________________

CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): mirage

Question about Face Mask or Chin Strap for Mouth Breathing

Thanks! I'll try it.

Hans Rudolph Masks

Mask	Humidifier

Additional Comments: i love resmed stuff!

Machine	Mask