Price Fixing Bill in Congress

[patientadvocate]

My fellow CPAP user. I ask all of you to go the the following link and support the bill that is currently in the Judiciary Committee. We may be a small voice but together we can hopefully make a difference with this "Minimum Internet Retail Price" that certian manufacturer's have implemented. Please click on the link below and look for Bill S-148 introduced by Senator Kohl. Please take time to do this.
Please register and VOTE IN SUPPORT of this bill

http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-s148/show

[patientadvocate]

S.148 - Discount Pricing Consumer Protection Act
A bill to restore the rule that agreements between manufacturers and retailers, distributors, or wholesalers to set the minimum price below which the manufacturer's product or service cannot be sold violates the Sherman Ac

[rosacer]

I hope you fellow cpap users will vote. America has been a place of liberty and an exemple for the world in the fight for freedom. Now is the time to fight for the freedom to continue to buy what you want wherever you want without restrictives laws that try to restric the free market.

Don't give up my friends!

[PST]

I hope you fellow cpap users will vote. America has been a place of liberty and an exemple for the world in the fight for freedom. Now is the time to fight for the freedom to continue to buy what you want wherever you want without restrictives laws that try to restric the free market.

There is no law that enables ResMed to establish a minimum retail price. There is simply an absence of any law forbidding it from doing so. In the absence of any law forbidding it, ResMed is free to refuse to sell its product to a wholesaler or retailer who will not agree to the minimum price. It is inventive to phrase support for this bill in terms of a fight for freedom and liberty, but the fact is that what you are proposing is a government regulation limiting the freedom of ResMed to price as it pleases and do business with whom it pleases. That doesn't bother me, but it should be clear to everyone that this is a call for more government regulation of business, not less.

[Wulfman]

More reading.......

1/6/2009--Introduced.Discount Pricing Consumer Protection Act - Amends the Sherman Act to declare that any contract, combination, conspiracy, or agreement setting a minimum price below which a product or service cannot be sold by a retailer, wholesaler, or distributor violates the Act.

From that link, you can click on the "Money Trail" tab and it'll get you to the next page.


From that page......click on Attorneys and law firms

http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-s148/money


A relevant discussion here:

http://blogs.computerworld.com/14842/on ... um_pricing


Considering the names of the legislators and attorneys......and the amounts of money involved, I'm not sure what to think.
As much as I get pissed about what some of these manufacturers do, I can see both sides of this issue. Even with "minimum pricing" the (singular) manufacturer is still susceptible to the marketability of its items.
What DOES seem to me to be collusion of price controls and in violation of the anti-trust laws is when the MANUFACTURERS get together to determine that they're going to do the same thing. (as ResMed, Respironics and F&P apparently did a couple of years ago with their MAP policies)


Den

[unadog]

It is a call to uphold the **traditional** interpretation of the Sherman Anti-trust act, which was understood to be the law of the land for most of the last century!

That interpretation of Sherman Ant-trust was overturned, on a 5-4 vote, by the same illustrious folks that decided the 2000 election for us. Also the same folks who overturned a century of law on campaign finance that prohibited corporations from spending massive amount of money to buy elections.

Can you say "activist judges"?

The effect of this is to almost double the net price of this much needed equipment to those many, many folks who don't have insurance! It basically imposes an artificial markup beyond what a company perceives to be adequate margins - profit. It extends the "game" of excessive markup and excessive cost with little added value - that the insurance companies and DMEs have created and continue to support - to all those who are not even part of that hugely dysfunctional system.

As someone whose life was absolutely trashed by undiagnosed OSA, anything that makes this technology more expensive for the millions who don't have insurance, and already can't afford the health care they need, is draconian! You are dooming the health of many, many thousands of folks, and killing some, to increase profits for a handful of corporations. The "justification" is that there are a few who may not get the assistance the need from internet retailers./ Well, duh, how much are the uninsured getting from the insurance companies and DMEs now? hell, even those of us **with** insurance have a hard time getting any help from them!

I went from being "fast tracked" and very successful at a Fortune 5 company, to being unable to work - or even do laundry at home - due to chronic pain, fatigue, memory, and cognition problems. I am finally at the point after 4 months of xPAP therapy where I can walk 15-30 minutes for exercise without too much pain. I also used to be a serious cyclist, skier, and triathlete.

How much did the "system" of doctors, primary care physicians, specialist, insurance, and DMEs help me in the last 12 years? Barely, and I have great insurance! Even after diagnosis I have had to take my therapy into my own hands.

It's not like we are trying to protect people from using quack medicine - something that might kill them, like udrinking only wheat grass juice to treat cancer!

We can't afford yet more hurdles that raise the cost of health care from those excluded from the system! Their lives really are are at stake!

Michael

[patientadvocate]

Please go to http://www.stoppricefixing.org and sign the petition. Please

[roster]

patientadvocate,

I would like to ask you (and any others reading this) what rule of morality would you use to prevent two businessmen from entering into voluntary contracts? I don't see that I have the right to interfere with their voluntary contracts.

The manufacturer has ownership rights of the product he produces. He can set the terms under which he is willing to sell. The potential buyers can agree to the terms and purchase from the manufacturer or disagree and not purchase from the manufacturer. This is all voluntary and government intervention is not needed since no rights have been violated by force, fraud or deception.

You may know much more about what goes on in these markets than I do. If there are other factors, please let us know.

That having been said, I think the manufacturers are making a mistake that the market will eventually make them pay for (assuming we can keep government regulators out). That is a big assumption since these markets are already heavily regulated.

If you are really a patientadvocate, how about lobbying for all CPAP equipment to become OTC. Pretty soon some forward thinking companies will be selling it at mass-marketers like BestBuy and WalMart and new specialty retailers. Retail prices will fall, models will proliferate, and sales will rise. More people will be diagnosed and treated.

I would like to hear back from you. We likely share a very important cause. But we need to figure out the best way to advance our cause.

Regards,

[fidelfs]

The reality is the free market has stopped working long time ago. What will happen is the other companies will follow and we customer we have to pay the price. See airlines going up, the other follows. It is really seldom see them reverting to previous prices.

This companies have a big influence in government and we don't. I am 100% in favor for free market but this is not the case. We need to restore free market where everything is decided by supply an demand, not how much the lobbyist power they have.

[roster]

It is a call to uphold the **traditional** interpretation of the Sherman Anti-trust act, which was understood to be the law of the land for most of the last century!

That interpretation of Sherman Ant-trust was overturned, on a 5-4 vote, by the same illustrious folks that decided the 2000 election for us. Also the same folks who overturned a century of law on campaign finance that prohibited corporations from spending massive amount of money to buy elections.

Can you say "activist judges"?

The effect of this is to almost double the net price of this much needed equipment to those many, many folks who don't have insurance! It basically imposes an artificial markup beyond what a company perceives to be adequate margins - profit. It extends the "game" of excessive markup and excessive cost with little added value - that the insurance companies and DMEs have created and continue to support - to all those who are not even part of that hugely dysfunctional system.

As someone whose life was absolutely trashed by undiagnosed OSA, anything that makes this technology more expensive for the millions who don't have insurance, and already can't afford the health care they need, is draconian! You are dooming the health of many, many thousands of folks, and killing some, to increase profits for a handful of corporations. The "justification" is that there are a few who may not get the assistance the need from internet retailers./ Well, duh, how much are the uninsured getting from the insurance companies and DMEs now? hell, even those of us **with** insurance have a hard time getting any help from them!

I went from being "fast tracked" and very successful at a Fortune 5 company, to being unable to work - or even do laundry at home - due to chronic pain, fatigue, memory, and cognition problems. I am finally at the point after 4 months of xPAP therapy where I can walk 15-30 minutes for exercise without too much pain. I also used to be a serious cyclist, skier, and triathlete.

How much did the "system" of doctors, primary care physicians, specialist, insurance, and DMEs help me in the last 12 years? Barely, and I have great insurance! Even after diagnosis I have had to take my therapy into my own hands.

It's not like we are trying to protect people from using quack medicine - something that might kill them, like udrinking only wheat grass juice to treat cancer!

We can't afford yet more hurdles that raise the cost of health care from those excluded from the system! Their lives really are are at stake!

Michael

Michael,

I would like to suggest that what you and I suffered, due to failure to be diagnosed and treated promptly and effectively, had nothing to do with Minimum Retail Pricing. The root reasons behind our problems are a mystery to me, but somehow the entire medical profession missed the high prevalence and deadly effects of sleep apnea.

With awareness in the last few years growing in leaps and bounds and now reaching the tipping point (800,000 diagnosed last year), we are poised to change things and prevent the next generation from suffering as we did.

Why not join efforts to deregulate this market: make CPAP equipment OTC; promote sleep apnea screening at every physical exam; promote inexpensive and quick home studies; reduce licensing requirements for DMEs; revoke FDA restrictions on new machines and masks; warn your symptomatic friends and associates about sleep apnea; promote the manufacturers and internet sites that do sell excellent equipment at lower prices; etc.?

Ciao.

[JohnBFisher]

... I would like to ask you (and any others reading this) what rule of morality would you use to prevent two businessmen from entering into voluntary contracts? I don't see that I have the right to interfere with their voluntary contracts. ...

Okay, I'm going to confuse Ro(o)ster with this one ...

I agree with him on this one on all counts!

Though I might not like it, the manufacturer of the product can enter into a contract with a distributor and (for whatever reason they might have) require a minimum price on their product. Such contracts often have other requirements, such as product training, etc. The distribution company does not have to agree to the terms of the contract.

As Ro(o)ster notes, in an open market - which he correctly notes we are NOT dealing with here - if this was not agreeable to the marketplace the manufacturer would loose marketshare and change their policies.

But if we are not dealing with a true free market, do we need additional protection? I'm undecided on that. I think the market is open enough that it will make some correction. I just do not know how much. But I'm loathe to regulate it.

[So Well]

But if we are not dealing with a true free market, do we need additional protection? I'm undecided on that. I think the market is open enough that it will make some correction. I just do not know how much. But I'm loathe to regulate it.

Think of it like this John. Why is the market not so free? Because of a maze of federal and state regulations.

How should we create more freedom in the market? Ask the same people who created the current maze of federal and state regulations to create more regulations?

Or kick those bums out and start deregulating?

Sigh , I am afraid we have a long way to go.

[roster]

Okay, I'm going to confuse Ro(o)ster with this one ...

I knew a compliment on your handsome avatar would make you putty in my hands.

[Arizona-Willie]

I hope you fellow cpap users will vote. America has been a place of liberty and an exemple for the world in the fight for freedom. Now is the time to fight for the freedom to continue to buy what you want wherever you want without restrictives laws that try to restric the free market.

There is no law that enables ResMed to establish a minimum retail price. There is simply an absence of any law forbidding it from doing so. In the absence of any law forbidding it, ResMed is free to refuse to sell its product to a wholesaler or retailer who will not agree to the minimum price. It is inventive to phrase support for this bill in terms of a fight for freedom and liberty, but the fact is that what you are proposing is a government regulation limiting the freedom of ResMed to price as it pleases and do business with whom it pleases. That doesn't bother me, but it should be clear to everyone that this is a call for more government regulation of business, not less.

===========

ALL businesses need strict regulation. Unregulated business is what brought us the recent bailouts of the financial industry.

Republicans have been stripping business regulations since Regan and we have seen the result and it wasn't pretty.

Business only cares about the bottom line and workers are merely labor units. Business will do anything to increase it's profits and it cares not a whit if that damages the nation, the state, or the city, or people. Corporations have no loyalty to any nation or political system. Profit is their only concern.

Capitalism is good, but unregulated capitalism is very very bad.

Business has bought our Congress lock stock and barrel. No < effective > regulations against it. All lobbying should be banned completely.
Argh there I go again getting on my soapbox

Sorry bout that.

[Arizona-Willie]

... I would like to ask you (and any others reading this) what rule of morality would you use to prevent two businessmen from entering into voluntary contracts? I don't see that I have the right to interfere with their voluntary contracts. ...

Okay, I'm going to confuse Ro(o)ster with this one ...

I agree with him on this one on all counts!

Though I might not like it, the manufacturer of the product can enter into a contract with a distributor and (for whatever reason they might have) require a minimum price on their product. Such contracts often have other requirements, such as product training, etc. The distribution company does not have to agree to the terms of the contract.

As Ro(o)ster notes, in an open market - which he correctly notes we are NOT dealing with here - if this was not agreeable to the marketplace the manufacturer would loose marketshare and change their policies.

But if we are not dealing with a true free market, do we need additional protection? I'm undecided on that. I think the market is open enough that it will make some correction. I just do not know how much. But I'm loathe to regulate it.

==========
Failing to regulate business is what brought us the recent bailouts and the near collapse of our financial industry. And, it could still collapse, the threat is not entirely gone.

Republicans have been stripping business regulation and enforcement of what regulations were left, since Regan and we have seen the result.

Capitalism is good, but it HAS to be regulated. Greed knows no bounds and without regulation, capitalism runs amok.