second night -- what happened?

[akousw]

Last night was my second on therapy. On the good side, I did not spend over an hour hypnotized by the sound of the machine whinning as I breathed (C-FLEX).
Before going on therapy (like, two days ago), I had this tendency to stay up until very late at night (or early in the morning ) around 2 - 5:30. I am not sure if this is insomnia or, my lab tech told me that it actually could be caused by sleep apnea - my brain doesn't want to go to sleep because it doesn't want to suffocate! So, late at night (early in the morning) I climb into bed and sleep something like 10 - 12 hours
last night, my wife and I both kinda accidentally went to bed at my normal bedtime.
When I got up, she was already awake. she told me that I went to sleep within 5 minutes. I doubt it, but okay, sure. I was really tired when I woke up, and I am not sure if I should have just kept on sleeping since I have had times before starting therapy when I sort of wake up before I am really ready to. She told me that I slept 8 hours, compared to the 10-12 that I normally sleep. I needed coffee, so we went out, and 'would get something while we're out,' but I guess I didn't quite hear that last part. But, while at that first store, I also became more irritable than I've ever been before. She actually had to take me aside once and offer to drop me off so I can sleep -- 'no, I need coffee!'

Is this normal? should I be getting so irritable? I mean, I'm like 26, and I have not had this condition long enough to have any of the quality of life issues that come with it. Actually, whatching the orientation video with the middle-aged man talk about sleeping all the time just answered so many of the questions I had about why I had to answer so many of the quality of life questionaires: my neurologist (I am an epileptic) offered me a sleep study on the basis of 'my neck is kinda big' alone (he specializes in sleep). Every questionaire I answer indicates the extreme remotest possibility that I have a sleep disorder! So, that video at my titration study was a big surprise -- my titration study was a big suprise. So was my wife telling me that I 'kill cats' in my sleep, though.

fortunately my wife got me a monster, and I calmed down shortly thereafter, and I've tried to explain some stuff to her like, 'I'm not supposed to get better immediately. I'm going to get better over a period of several months. And irritability is a symptom of sleep apnea.'

so, is what happened this morning a sleep apnea thingy that just kinda caught up with me, and I'm not far along with my treatment to get past it yet? or is it something that happened to me because I'm not a morning person, but, I could actually do things like wake up to an alarm clock because I was apnic, but treatment is going to turn me into a foggy-eyed, groggy, deep sleeper, that my wife is going to struggle to wake up every morning, and then immediately serve with a fresh coffee or monster IV or I can't function and I'll be hideously irritable - and the fact that I just wasn't really sleeping turned this all off?
(did I mention that I slept through my alarm clock for the first time in over a decade yesterday )

[ka-ann]

I am probably not as qualified to answer as others here but I did become terribly irritable at first. I felt like my whole personality changed. I had a lot of trouble adjusting to the whole process, the mask, the air, etc. I knew it was happening but just felt so grouchy all the time I couldn't help myself. It is better now about 3 months down the road. I have read some about the brain having to adjust to the therapy and the different kind of sleep you are getting. It is called sleep debt. You might search and read about it. I think the brain is just not used to the deep sleep and is having to re-wire to find some sort of "normal" again. That is about all I have to offer. Maybe others can shed more light on it. I do wish you the best of luck with this. Give it some time. It did take me several weeks to begin to feel some better and for a long time I actually did feel worse!! Don't give up!!
Regards,
Karen

[kteague]

I can only guess, as I don't know if you have a machine that reports data that lets you know if your treatment is indeed therapeutic. But here's one theory... Because you were getting treatment, you were able to get real sleep, restful sleep, and your brain and body was so deep into it at the time you were awakened that it didn't want to give it up. I don't think it's unusual to need some extra catch-up sleep (sleep debt) for a while after starting treatment. For me, it took a lot of extra sleep for a long time, as I was so utterly depleted. Before treatment I ran on adrenaline and even when asleep felt in a near-awake state. Once the wall of sheer determination was relaxed a bit in anticipation of the cpap holding me up, I totally caved in and wasn't worth a nickel for a while.

Be kind to yourself and patient. Whether you've been under great duress for many years or a little duress for a few, you have some recovering to do. Any doctor would tell a patient who has endured an assault on their health to take it easy and get plenty of rest to aid recovery. Maybe that's what your body was trying to tell you when it didn't want to engage and enjoy an active morning. As much as your lifestyle allows, allow a little extra sleep so long as it isn't so much as to prevent going to sleep at a reasonable bedtime. Even better if you could get that extra sleep going to bed early rather than sleeping in. Unless something else is going on with you, you should notice the need for more sleep lessen and your ability to fully awaken and face the day will just happen. Let us know when it does.

[akousw]

I can only guess, as I don't know if you have a machine that reports data that lets you know if your treatment is indeed therapeutic.

I don't think so. I couldn't really afford to buy this thing on a seminary student's medical insurance - you know, the kind where nothing's gonna happen besides a few minor trips to the doctor, upgraded so that I can have coverage to buy epilepsy pills. I have a $2k deductible IN network on this stuff, and, well, if you could sell me a paper maché CPAP machine, then I could probably allocate the funds, but not for a real one!
So, I had to deal with how to get a decent machine that I'm not going to throw out the window that I can buy, and how to get stuff I can use quickly within the past week - and not wait for our tax refund check (if it's ever going to come ). I basically had to ask my dad to order it for me, who thinks I brought this all on myself because I am too fat and I sleep all day and stay up all night (gee, I wonder why; could it be because I have chronic insomnia brought on by obstructive sleep apnea?) So, I don't actually need to go on CPAP -- I'm only doing it 'cause I'm lazy or something like that. I just need to loose those pounds, as I am obese or close to it (my wife and I haven't found anything fun to do together besides eating out and movies, and I like Whataburger way too much) .
I basically studied the technologies on the machines intensively for about 1 night, since I consistently stay up 'til 5 anyway, and determined that I needed an M Series, which was $500 without the software, $800 with software. Since I needed help from my dad, who could care less, I had to go without. My sleep lab basically just kinda cut me loose to find a machine after the titration study, expecting me to come in and 'see how it's going' in 2 weeks, without any real guidance apart from refering me to two DME dealers, one of which, according to my wife, is primarily a medicare dealer.
I basically studied for 1 night intensively all the technologies and options available, and determined, apart from that I need a full face mask, which I had already known going into the titration study, and which my lab tech confirmed that morning, and I determined that C-FLEX is important, and so is automatically adjusting the pressure for altitude changes, in case daddy decides to take us on walkabout in the mountains, as he likes to do. I didn't really know that data recording could be important or useful until after I started selecting the machine, and when I looked at the machine, I selected it because I needed something that I could get daddy to be willing to help me buy despite the fact that I'm a big, fat, lazy loser who sleeps all day and just wants a new toy to sleep all day 'cause he's not willing to do the hard work -- when the sleep lab called with the results, I actually asked about the possibility of losing weight alone as a viable alternative to CPAP and memorized the secretary's response word-for-word just for daddy. -- My father, who has enough health sense to eat a "frozen" turkey from last Thanksgaving that has travelled a quarter across Texas, in order for him to offer it as part of a banquet with fresh meats when it was already 3 months old at least, not to mention having been thawed and transported in a hot car for about 4 hours - and he just keeps on eating it . He has just a great sense of denial! He could probably blame my epilepsy on my weight if he hadn't actually seen my first tonic-clonic seizure!

[kteague]

Hopefully in your seminary classes there will be something in a family counseling class that will help you deal with your Dad. It sound like his issues go far beyond you. Being misunderstood with sleep apnea has been discussed on here before. It happens and it hurts, especially when it is from one we should be able to reasonably expect to feel safe with and not attacked. About the weight, even if losing it would help the sleep apnea, that is a long time endeavor and one would still need to be treated in the meantime. For some, it was the OSA that caused them to be tired and lethargic in the first place. And OSA can disrupt the appetite hormones leaving one feeling always hungry and never full. And when the body lacks energy, it can crave food though what it really needs is quality sleep. Using this treatment can give your body the rest and rejuvenation it needs to deal with the sedentary lifestyle and dietary issues. Will still be up to you to make it happen, but at least you won't be fighting against such odds. Hey, since OSA sometimes runs in families, any chance your father has it? Wouldn't that be something!

[akousw]

My father has been almost anorexic since my mother fell asleep. But I have never had a really good personal fitness schedule.

My wife and I do believe that the wieght gain could be partially medical. We have both gained some weight since our wedding, which is strong evidence that I have an unhealthy lifestyle.

my other neurologist (who specializes in epilepsy) is trying to slowly transfer me onto another medication, but the medication that I take for epilepsy currently is also known to slow the metabolism and cause one to become more hungry. So, I have kind of a triple enemy: my wife and I like to eat out together (and waste time surfing the internet (i.e., sedentary lifestyles ) at home), and i have (from my medicine) a reduced metabolism and an increased appetite that makes me eat like a horse!

I seem to be facing another issue: does anyone else have problems waking up to an alarm clock? I am unsure, but, I don't know if I will be able to wak up to mine. I slept through it on my first morning, and with my 0500 bedtime, 1100 is still a pretty early morning for my NT Greek class at the crack of Noon!

I am going to meet with my neurologist/sleep specialist in two weeks. I guess if I'm still staying up until 5:00 AM, then I am going to talk to him about whether I have developed chronic insomnia. emedicine.com actually does indicate that obstructive (per se) sleep apnea cause it, and since I have it, I guess I that explains laying in bed tired for over an hour, almost hitting myself over the head because I can't go to sleep, even on three hours of sleep the night before. I knew there had to be something wrong. . .

but, my wife wants to go out, so that I can eat like a horse and get fatter.

[kteague]

The best antidote to sleeping thru an alarm is consistently allowing adequate time and getting quality sleep. CPAP can help give you the quality, but it can't work miracles. I'm just thinking it would kinda be a shame to get so close but have short sleep keep you short of fulfilling your potential for feeling good. But that's a personal choice.

About sleep apnea and insomnia, I think we learn to avoid that which is unpleasant or even dangerous. But like any behavior repeated over time, old habits are hard to break. Google sleep hygiene if you want to work towards a better sleep schedule.

[akousw]

If CPAP wakes you up, that's good, but I'm not sure if I'm quite there yet, nor if I'll be there for a few months! And a quaternary school isn't entirely then environment where I can always control how late I go to bed. Nor is tertiary education, for that matter, which may have also contributed to how late I go to bed. I have had times when I had to go to bed at, well, you know, and then get up at 0700 to shout at a printer that doesn't want to print, and go to the school library to print a 10 page paper and 40 pp of notes for a class at 0800.

I actually try not to use the alarm clock very much, apart from ensuring that I wake up for class, and when I need it because I have to spend half or most of the night doing some kind of class project (or banging my head against the wall about the professor assigning a class quasiproject), and, even though I actually try to schedule my classes in the afternoon because of my sleep schedule (last semester, I had them around 0800, and just came home and napped. But I also had chapel. I also kinda forgot to register for class. )

So the kind of position that I'm in is that I am about to start crunch time, which means that those short nights are imminent. This is that time of the semester when the professor loads the student down like crazy with schoolwork and quasischoolwork. The student must spend most of his time, and devote plenty of late nights, to some form of class work or study, and just sleep when he can After this week, I'm going to get into a point in the semester when sleep hygeine is practically a luxury, and I have too much 3@#%$ work to do (cross room, bang head on wall, ...) and I will not always have the time to 'allow adequate time and get quality sleep': I have to write a 10 page paper, and take a quiz on how to find good resources! I will pull an overnighter at least once during this semester, and I will probably have a night with under 4 hours of sleep at least twice. I can probably come home and take a nap after class on those days, which probably isn't good sleep hygeine, granted, but that's just how it goes, CPAP or not.

So, how the heck do I do crunchtime on CPAP if I can't even wake up with my alarm clock? I can end up on academic probation or something if this doesn't go well. I have thought about writing an email to my professor(s), but, as this is my first semester seeking help with my Pervasive development disorder (read: minor form of autism; ever notice I write long posts? ) and it seems to get only a little more assistance than lip service. I don't know if I'll get much help for this condition either: I don't think I'ver ever heard anything about it apart from someone who almost cried about a sleep doctor who "told me exactly what my personality was like" based on the disorder, and my specialist who thought my neck was too big...

Understand ye my issue with the alarm clock now?

[fiberfan]

So, how the heck do I do crunchtime on CPAP if I can't even wake up with my alarm clock?

I don't have an alarm clock and would likely turn it off and go back to sleep if I had one. The timer on my stove will beep until it is physically turned off, it works great as an alarm clock sub for me.

[kteague]

Yeah, college is notorious for demanding short to no sleep at times. Life in general can do that too. Seems at those times all anyone can do is the best they can in their circumstances. There has been discussion on here in the past of a wrist watch alarm that monitors movement while sleeping and attempts to wake one when in a lighter stage of sleep if close to the preferred alarm time. Maybe that's something you could consider in the future if getting quality sleep on cpap doesn't improve things in a few weeks. It may be that if your sleep is of good quality, you will need less of it and/or an occasional night of short sleep won't won't be so bad since you wouldn't be coming from a place of such depletion. In the meantime, you might have to have a backup plan. My last few months of working, I had 2 friends who would call me at wakeup time and make me get up and be in the bathroom before they'd hang up the phone. Otherwise it could be 2 hours of hitting the snooze every 10 minutes and never even remembering it.

Hope you are able to get thru the crunch times successfully, and that you'll be pleasantly surprised at your future relationship with your alarm clock.