Am I the only one who thinks the following is true?:
The designers of sleep masks have never had to actually use one.
The designers of sleep masks have never had to actually use one sleeping next to a spouse. ("Oh, gee, that blast of cold exhaust air actually bothers someone else?") ((I do acknowlege, and applaud, the few designs that address this issue.))
The Advertisers and Photographers of sleep masks do not realize that you lay down while using them!
The designers of sleep masks do not realize that you lay down while using them WITH your head pressed against a pillow - no less.
The manufacturers of CPAPs (and the many variations on the theme) do not realize that many users with allergies might prefer to have a HEPA filter on their machine.
Manufacturers, Engineers and Designers ! Please note.
12 posts
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rock and roll
- Posts: 1222
- Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2004 7:30 pm
- Location: Texas
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CPAP Historian
Before the internet, 99.9% of CPAP stuff was sold through insurance. Patients got what the DME said they would get.
Today, 97% of CPAP stuff is sold through insurance. Patients get what the DME says they get and 3% run away to places like this.
The name of the game is to get the cheapest possible mask to DMEs who would bill at a set code and make their margins as large as possible to offset the cost of billing insurance AND (ironically) to offset the cost of sending RTs out to customers who could not tolerate the mask they were given.
Perhaps I'm bucking the trend, but I'm not suprised by this action, nor by the quality of masks. I think its what happens when you tell a capitalist company they have to play by socialist rules.
The customer is king, but the customer is the insurance company (who does the paying) instead of the patient (who pays only a fraction of the true cost of the service). Due to this, the DME caters to the insurance, and insists the products he sells will as well. The masks being offered are a mix of 97% insurance and 3% internet. That is, 97% bad and 3% good.
You've heard, "there is no free lunch". You've heard, "low cost healthcare is a right". Those two will never add up and the result, if "copay healthcare" is insisted apon, will be the mediocre offerings and service you see.
A large, free market for CPAP equipment is the only way to solve this problem. 3% won't get it done. A free market forces lower prices and good service. It forces those who wish to succeed to be accountable to those who are the main buyers of their services. Look at our host, cpap.com, for an example of CPAP sold correctly.
With that said, I think your compliant is at the same time true and silly. You are in a society where 97% of equipment is bought the wrong way, yet you demand services and quality your society, who uses insurance, hasn't supported or paid for. Of course you aren't getting it - and you won't. Not until the changes I've laid out come to pass.
Today, 97% of CPAP stuff is sold through insurance. Patients get what the DME says they get and 3% run away to places like this.
The name of the game is to get the cheapest possible mask to DMEs who would bill at a set code and make their margins as large as possible to offset the cost of billing insurance AND (ironically) to offset the cost of sending RTs out to customers who could not tolerate the mask they were given.
Perhaps I'm bucking the trend, but I'm not suprised by this action, nor by the quality of masks. I think its what happens when you tell a capitalist company they have to play by socialist rules.
The customer is king, but the customer is the insurance company (who does the paying) instead of the patient (who pays only a fraction of the true cost of the service). Due to this, the DME caters to the insurance, and insists the products he sells will as well. The masks being offered are a mix of 97% insurance and 3% internet. That is, 97% bad and 3% good.
You've heard, "there is no free lunch". You've heard, "low cost healthcare is a right". Those two will never add up and the result, if "copay healthcare" is insisted apon, will be the mediocre offerings and service you see.
A large, free market for CPAP equipment is the only way to solve this problem. 3% won't get it done. A free market forces lower prices and good service. It forces those who wish to succeed to be accountable to those who are the main buyers of their services. Look at our host, cpap.com, for an example of CPAP sold correctly.
With that said, I think your compliant is at the same time true and silly. You are in a society where 97% of equipment is bought the wrong way, yet you demand services and quality your society, who uses insurance, hasn't supported or paid for. Of course you aren't getting it - and you won't. Not until the changes I've laid out come to pass.
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SLEEPYCD
As an aside from the issue of today's designs .. I am hoping to get some photos for my photo gallery of the early CPAP masks people had to use. My sleep clinic have some of Dr Sullivan's team's early hand made efforts.
Todays masks when compared to these early ones could be like comparing modern cars to the vehicles of the model T era.
Here in Sydney I was invited to call ResMed to have them look at the fit of my mask as I commented to my sleep clinic the the model before fitted better. The sleep clinc gal said that ResMed have actually modified patients masks at no cost when asked & were grateful for the opportunity to look at the issues. I haven't followed through yet but probably will.
Cheers
DSM
Todays masks when compared to these early ones could be like comparing modern cars to the vehicles of the model T era.
Here in Sydney I was invited to call ResMed to have them look at the fit of my mask as I commented to my sleep clinic the the model before fitted better. The sleep clinc gal said that ResMed have actually modified patients masks at no cost when asked & were grateful for the opportunity to look at the issues. I haven't followed through yet but probably will.
Cheers
DSM
xPAP and Quattro std mask (plus a pad-a-cheek anti-leak strap)
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Guest
Yes, yes, well said, CPAP Historian. Well said.
And, as you point out yourself - the insurance companies are gambling on wearing out their customers with paper work and "RT's" in the hope of pawning off inferior products at inflated prices.
All true.
In your last sentences you mentioned: "...yet you demand services and quality your society, who uses insurance, hasn't supported or paid for. Of course you aren't getting it - and you won't. Not until the changes I've laid out come to pass. "
The point of my post is not to change all of society. Who, as an individual, has the energy and clout for that?
The point of my silly post is to spot light the very silliness itself. Thank you for your response and help in accomplishing that!
I meant it to sound like an “Andy Rooney” sort of rant.
Put that thought on hold for a moment -
I have to make a correction!
I found two advertising pictures of mask users sleeping on a pillow! It was on an Australian CPAP web site. Wonders never cease!
I am not a writer. Composition is not my long suite. I am, however, a technician. I am the sort who looks at gear such as my CPAP equipment and make my own modifications - thank you very much.
As an example: I wanted a HEPA filtration system. I built one that integrates with the existing unit without harming the flow and backpressure. (I thoroughly tested it with my sleep clinic's own equipment. I also figured out how to do it without voiding the warranty. )
I can't share how I did it out of fear of Law Suits- I do live in America, after all.
I think I have to disagree with you, CPAP Historian, on one point. The companies that compete for the Insurance Dollar are dependent on the end user to some extent. At least I think they are competing. I could be wrong. They could be in a conspiracy. However, I think the end user does have a choice among various manufacturers. I, for one, would buy my own equipment and dam*/ the Insurance companies - IF I could find a machine that meets my specs!
If you frustrate Americans enough they will find work-arounds. Some of us, who are able, will pay for our equipment out of pocket - with Krugerands if we jolly-well have to. Take the “CPAP Pro” mask that clips to your teeth as an example. I like the invention. The “boil and bite” custom fit is a brilliant idea. I just hope he comes up with a way to add a “boil and snort” method of customizing the nasal pillow fit. (I'm an incessant, unrepentant tinker and modifier of just about everything I own. My peers and I were doing mods long before Tim Alan came on the scene.) There are folks out there that will buck the trend of society-at-large. There is an alternative market, even if it is ... a "Black Market".
Long live the “Grass Roots” forums, like this one, that allows us to share fixes, “work-arounds” and success stories!
And, as you point out yourself - the insurance companies are gambling on wearing out their customers with paper work and "RT's" in the hope of pawning off inferior products at inflated prices.
All true.
In your last sentences you mentioned: "...yet you demand services and quality your society, who uses insurance, hasn't supported or paid for. Of course you aren't getting it - and you won't. Not until the changes I've laid out come to pass. "
The point of my post is not to change all of society. Who, as an individual, has the energy and clout for that?
The point of my silly post is to spot light the very silliness itself. Thank you for your response and help in accomplishing that!
I meant it to sound like an “Andy Rooney” sort of rant.
Put that thought on hold for a moment -
I have to make a correction!
I found two advertising pictures of mask users sleeping on a pillow! It was on an Australian CPAP web site. Wonders never cease!
I am not a writer. Composition is not my long suite. I am, however, a technician. I am the sort who looks at gear such as my CPAP equipment and make my own modifications - thank you very much.
As an example: I wanted a HEPA filtration system. I built one that integrates with the existing unit without harming the flow and backpressure. (I thoroughly tested it with my sleep clinic's own equipment. I also figured out how to do it without voiding the warranty. )
I can't share how I did it out of fear of Law Suits- I do live in America, after all.
I think I have to disagree with you, CPAP Historian, on one point. The companies that compete for the Insurance Dollar are dependent on the end user to some extent. At least I think they are competing. I could be wrong. They could be in a conspiracy. However, I think the end user does have a choice among various manufacturers. I, for one, would buy my own equipment and dam*/ the Insurance companies - IF I could find a machine that meets my specs!
If you frustrate Americans enough they will find work-arounds. Some of us, who are able, will pay for our equipment out of pocket - with Krugerands if we jolly-well have to. Take the “CPAP Pro” mask that clips to your teeth as an example. I like the invention. The “boil and bite” custom fit is a brilliant idea. I just hope he comes up with a way to add a “boil and snort” method of customizing the nasal pillow fit. (I'm an incessant, unrepentant tinker and modifier of just about everything I own. My peers and I were doing mods long before Tim Alan came on the scene.) There are folks out there that will buck the trend of society-at-large. There is an alternative market, even if it is ... a "Black Market".
Long live the “Grass Roots” forums, like this one, that allows us to share fixes, “work-arounds” and success stories!
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Guest
SLEEPYCD wrote:iscius,
They don't have a clue, do they??? You are the first person I've seen that is also from Iowa. Where from??? I live in Boone, Ia.
cd
Hi SleepyCD.
I am from just outside of Indianola. I grew up among farming folk who do not think it is strange to have a welding shop in their back yard and think everyone knows how to cut a truck in half, and stretch it out and put tandem axles on it if need be (don't they?)
By the way - with a pseudonymn like "SleepyCD" I am guessing you use one of those "Sleep Enhancing" CDs to help you get off to sleep. If so - how does it work for you?
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SLEEPYCD
iscius,
I do love listening to CDs, but "CD" is actually a nickname (my initials). Started along time ago and stuck (I guess the name Carolyn was too long). I grew up in Brooklyn (Iowa), really small, you have probably seen the exit along I-80 (about 70 miles east of Des Moines). You know the kind of small town where you could be gone all day playing with your friends and your parents didn't worry. If you got caught in a rainstorm on your bike, someone would throw your bike in the back of their truck and take you home. I'm sure Indianola was the same???
CD (Carolyn)
I do love listening to CDs, but "CD" is actually a nickname (my initials). Started along time ago and stuck (I guess the name Carolyn was too long). I grew up in Brooklyn (Iowa), really small, you have probably seen the exit along I-80 (about 70 miles east of Des Moines). You know the kind of small town where you could be gone all day playing with your friends and your parents didn't worry. If you got caught in a rainstorm on your bike, someone would throw your bike in the back of their truck and take you home. I'm sure Indianola was the same???
CD (Carolyn)
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Guest
Folks tend to be friendlier the further South you go (away from the Capitol, Des Moines). When you are driving around out in the country - people will wave at you even if they have no idea who you are. MY parents would worry, though. You never knew when you might encounter the neighbor's Bull or Sow that was always breaking out of the fence -or so it seemed. But, yeah, those days are gone. Too many idiots abducting kids these days -everywhere.SLEEPYCD wrote:iscius,
I do love listening to CDs, but "CD" is actually a nickname (my initials). Started along time ago and stuck (I guess the name Carolyn was too long). I grew up in Brooklyn (Iowa), really small, you have probably seen the exit along I-80 (about 70 miles east of Des Moines). You know the kind of small town where you could be gone all day playing with your friends and your parents didn't worry. If you got caught in a rainstorm on your bike, someone would throw your bike in the back of their truck and take you home. I'm sure Indianola was the same???
CD (Carolyn)
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Maskedmechanic
Cpap Historian,
Your post is one of the best written and interesting I have had the pleasure of reading. Thank you!
Can you look into the future as well as you do the past? Is the internet 3% market share going to grow? Will the insurance/DME duo win in the end? Do the manufactures care? What can the internet do to be more competitive? What can we cpaptalkers do to improve cpap products and service?
Your post is one of the best written and interesting I have had the pleasure of reading. Thank you!
Can you look into the future as well as you do the past? Is the internet 3% market share going to grow? Will the insurance/DME duo win in the end? Do the manufactures care? What can the internet do to be more competitive? What can we cpaptalkers do to improve cpap products and service?
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SLEEPYCD
To All,
Just a quick note on recent DME/Insurance issue. Got a bill for $45.00 yesterday from DME. No description of what the invoice was for, so I called DME. I asked what the $45.00 charge was for, was told CPAP rental co-pay for Jul 05. I explained that my insurance co sends me a letters outlining what they pay & my co-pay, ect and that I would call my Ins Co if I needed to. Received call back from DME about an hour later, telling me that parent co had made a billing error and to please ignore the $45.00 invoice. (I can't complain about my Ins co they paid for Sleep Study/CPAP completely, I am VERY LUCKY!!!). Was DME trying to double dip???? Did they think I would just pay an invoice not knowing what it was for??? I thought of some useful things I could do with my 6' CPAP Hose, like wrap it around DME's neck and PULL HARD!!!! Did I say that??????
CD
Just a quick note on recent DME/Insurance issue. Got a bill for $45.00 yesterday from DME. No description of what the invoice was for, so I called DME. I asked what the $45.00 charge was for, was told CPAP rental co-pay for Jul 05. I explained that my insurance co sends me a letters outlining what they pay & my co-pay, ect and that I would call my Ins Co if I needed to. Received call back from DME about an hour later, telling me that parent co had made a billing error and to please ignore the $45.00 invoice. (I can't complain about my Ins co they paid for Sleep Study/CPAP completely, I am VERY LUCKY!!!). Was DME trying to double dip???? Did they think I would just pay an invoice not knowing what it was for??? I thought of some useful things I could do with my 6' CPAP Hose, like wrap it around DME's neck and PULL HARD!!!! Did I say that??????
CD
12 posts
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