Epidemic of Whistling Masks -- What to do?

[hen3ry]

Folks:

I've been using a Respironics REMSTAR Auto M for 30 months with great results and few problems.

Recently I got a new batch of nasal masks: Two Respironics Comfort Gel Mediums and a F-P 407. Last week, my wife reported that the 407 emits a whistle that's seriously disturbing her sleep, so I switched to a month-old Comfort Gel, which she says whistles, too. So did a second, brand-new Comfort Gel. No improvement from adjusting the masks. Using a brand-new hose was no help.

Difficult to tell but it appears that the whistle is emitted from the air exhaust port,which is a grille area on the 407 and a curved slot on the Comfort Gel. The REMSTAR machine seems to be operating as usual.

Hmmm, this has never been a problem before. At night, we always have a fan going, which masks all but the loudest noises. My hearing is going downhill, and I can't hear the whistle unless I put my hand just in front of the exhaust ports to reflect the sound -- but then I really do hear a loud whistle.

Yeah, well, we've got a lot of external stress these days and probably my wife is definitely more irritable recently, but this seems to go beyond that.

So...

--Should I try yet more masks and hope they don't whistle?
--Is it possible the cause is that my REMSTAR machine is somehow out-of-whack and blowing air differently?
--Besides sleeping elsewhere <sad grin> what else could I try?
--Any other ideas?

Note: Based on experience, I can't expect a bit of help from my DME vendor. Their only concerns seem to be doing as little as possible and billing my HMO for as much as possible. My HMO GP is a great guy but he assumes the DME handles everything. My HMO sleep doc is not visible at all -- he just read the original sleep study report and made the diagnosis.

Thanks in advance,

Hen3ry

[ozij]

Is she absolutely sure it's the masks? It would make much more sense if the whistle came from the machine -- carried through the mask vent.
The mask vents are so different from each other that my first thought was too much humidity -- but then I saw you had a passover humidifier, so there's not much chance of that.

Could it be where the masks seal on your face? Have you perhaps added a beard / mustache? A need do fuss around with the new headgear so the seal is as good as with older masks?

An inadvertent change of the FLEX option on the machine?

If you can, engage her help in troubleshooting the noise during the day - I mean, pencil the time down in your diaries, and attempt a troubleshooting session. She may be able to identify the noise is in machine

If she's too upset by stresses to cooperate with that, then maybe she really needs time sleeping in another room...

If the machine is under warranty, try taking it back to the DME.

O.

[harry33]

I suspect the noise is from your CPAP, try removing hose, turn CPAP on and partly block air outlet and see if it whistles, if so may be an internal air leak

[Patrick A]

Try changing the filter mine does that every so often. I change the white filter and it seems to go away.

[hen3ry]

Folks:

Thanks for your help...

With the aid of two other family members, I figured it out. The REMSTAR Auto M unit is the cause. When I put my ear on it I hear clearly that it has developed a mechanical whine that's conducted up the hose. (We tried doubling the length of the hose. No help.) I strongly doubt that there is any adjustment -- the unit is must be repaired or replaced.

Wish me luck with with my HMO and DME.

Thanks,
Hen3ry

[Babette]

It may go away on it's own. My never whined until I took it on an airplane trip, then it started whining. Then, for no reason, it stopped.

Hang in there. Try putting it on a towel to dampen the machine noise.

Cheers,
B.

[hen3ry]

Babette:

Thanks for your information and encouragement.

Yes, it happens that I took the machine on an airplane trip about a month ago. I cannot imagine how air travel would have an effect, how that effect would be delayed for weeks in my case, or how the problem would correct itself.

I did some more experiments. I put the machine on a soft-padded surface and removed the hose-and-mask.
I used my fingers over the air outlet as a substitute "load".

First, I adjusted my fingers to let only a small amount of air escape. With my ear about 1 ft (0.3m) from the machine, I could hear an acceptable soft "purr". When I let the flow increase, well, the airflow noise obscured the purr, and there was the whistle, kind of like a teakettle on the boil in the next room.

I repeated the same experiment with my ear directly on the top of the machine. As before, with low flow, I could hear a purr -- better description, a "whir". As I let more air escape, the whir changed pitch. At an intermediate point of increasing flow, a whistle appeared in addition to the noise of the airflow and the whir.

What does that whistle sound like? Aha, now I realize... In the old days, when my ears were young and TV sets and computer terminals were less sophisticated, I could often hear a very high-pitched squeal from them. It was very difficult to localize the source of the squeal -- it was just louder closer to the equipment. I found it totally miserable to sit anywhere nearby -- often OK for TV's, but a real problem if I need to use the computer terminal.

This noise from my CPAP machine is not quite as high-pitched, but otherwise very similar. Would a 30ft (10m) hose solve the problem? As I said in an earlier post, the whistle seems to travel with the airflow, so I doubt it.

Thanks,

Hen3ry

[ycartf]

I don't know about the exact problem or source of your whistling, but I do know that you don't want a hose in excess of 10 feet. Anything longer than 10 feet and your pressure will not be accurate at the mask.

[GumbyCT]

hen3ry , when you travelled, did you checked your cpap machine with your luggage? Or did it get banged around or dropped?

I wonder if it is a bearing whine? Contact your DME for a replacement.

It may go away on it's own. My never whined until I took it on an airplane trip, then it started whining. Then, for no reason, it stopped..

It didn't stop for No reason - the reason it stopped was the noise - a cry for help.

[GumbyCT]

hen3ry , when you travelled, did you checked your cpap machine with your luggage? Or did it get banged around or dropped?

I wonder if it is a bearing whine? Contact your DME for a replacement.

Guess I'll neva no.

that's where the "Inner Circle Member"ship pays. They will issue a spare machine to use when things happen cuz you can believe your DME will be closed for a looong holiday weekend or something else. They even allow you to use it for travel purposes. A BIG help.

[DaveMunson]

I -think- I read through all the responses to date but did not see the correct response.

You have a bit of oil or crud in an airhole. Probably oil from your hand around one or more of the small holes. The holes are small and there is a strong flow of air. Any bit of oil on the inside of the holes and you start creating turbulence which is the noise.

Dismember the soft plastic from the hard plastic. I assume that the exhaust ports are onthe hard plastic.

Take a soft bristled tooth brush with a drop of dawn on it. Soft. After wetting the mask, nicely scrub with the brush every where. All around the port holes. Where plastic meats the mask parts. Scrub. The dawn detergent plus scrubbing with the tooth brush will remove whatever is changing the air flow and make it quiet. You need a good dish detergent. You need to wet the plastic before scrubbing (allows the detergent to chemically surround any particulates on the mask). Rinse well and air dry. Clean your hands before you reassemble.

[GumbyCT]

Gumby has a theory about how travel affects cpap equipment. I am beginning to wonder if when traveling people aren't simply emptying the humidifiers "completely" (or at all) and any remaining water makes its way into the electronics of the machine. And when the power is applied the water shorts out the components which have water on them. Squealing noises can be caused by bearings.

Some folks may not even realize when this has happened while others are certain to outright deny they played any role in the fate of their equipment. After all, it's always someone elses fault, isn't it?

Probably the best way would be to carry 2 humidifier chambers, the 2nd doesn't even have to hold water or be a good one. Just use it to put in the machine when packing because you know it is DRY. Take the other, empty, water chamber and put it into a plastic bag and pack it separately. This way any remaining water drops can't get close to your working machine.

I would use the empty water chamber only to help keep dirt and other contaminants out of the inside part of the machine.

If you can dedicate a machine just for travel is probably the very best way bc if it is lost or damaged you will still have a machine. You are less likely to forget things this way. Plus you can pack everything you need up way ahead of time and not rush or forget to empty the water chamber in the morning. Well except for the return trip.

HTH

[bailachel]

Gumby, that's a good idea. if i get to the point where have 2 tanks, I will try it because I travel a lot.

Meanwhile, I'll just have to keep doing what I do now, empty it, dry it, and put 2 dry kleenex in it to absorb any hidden moisture before I reinsert it in the machine. (and they always come out damp when I get home.)

[GumbyCT]

Gumby, that's a good idea. if i get to the point where have 2 tanks, I will try it because I travel a lot.

Meanwhile, I'll just have to keep doing what I do now, empty it, dry it, and put 2 dry kleenex in it to absorb any hidden moisture before I reinsert it in the machine. (and they always come out damp when I get home.)

Maybe someone else will know for sure (or call your insurance) how often you can get a replacement water chamber. I seem to think it is 6mos. but could be 3. Your Ins. Co should know tho.

It's ALWAYS to have spares of anything that could break and impact your therapy. The water chamber is one such item. Spare masks are ALWAYS welcome

[dianefay]

I also have the "whistling mask"! I think my noise comes from the small vents, that let your co2 out. It will stop for a short time if I brush past these very small holes with my fingertip. But it often comes back, and seems to happen most when we are having a house fan pull in cool air, from the outside, through a skylight in our bedroom. And some nights it seems to stop not long after getting in bed, and other times it will keep me awake for hours. I run my finger over the holes, it stops the squeak, and usually comes back - and I always wonder if sometimes I fall asleep inspite of it whistling... don't know about that one. Hope this helps someone~
Diane