Endotoxin from Bacteria Migrating from Humidifier to Lungs

[roster]

Well we have had many sharp arguments here about whether or not bacteria could migrate from water in the humidifier to the respiratory system. Here is an article wherein some local doctors that claim an endotoxin from bacteria in tap water caused a lung infection in one patient. The doctors conclude, "..... the case report shows that, in unusual circumstances, using contaminated water in CPAP machines has the potential to cause respiratory illness."

http://www.news-medical.net/news/200912 ... chine.aspx

[tattooyu]

The moral?

Use distilled water.

... or at the very least, bottled water from a reverse osmosis system.


That is all.

[Julie]

Then again, you can get killed just crossing the street, or drinking from anywhere there is water. After a while you can go nuts trying to second guess all possible dangers and the stress from that will kill you first.

[OldLincoln]

Then again, you can get killed just crossing the street, or drinking from anywhere there is water. After a while you can go nuts trying to second guess all possible dangers and the stress from that will kill you first.

Yeah, but we know using tap water grows scum in the tank. Breathing that is more like crossing a busy street with a blindfold than being aware and careful crossing a street.

I've read the arguments that bacteria cannot be atomized in the humidifier and I've never bought it. Even though a confirmed distilled water user, I still look hard at my reservoir for any sign of cloudiness and wash it well followed by a rinse with a little Control III then with distilled water before refilling. I've never had an issue with it but very rarely get sick anyway.

[Goofproof]

Or maybe the bacteria was in the air stream before the XPAP and got pulled in. I don't have room for the bubble tent in my bed room. Take two Vit "C"'s, and call me in the morning. It wouldn't hurt to follow the rules and use distilled water and be a little cleaner around your equiptment. Jim

[WillSucceed]

The moral?

Use distilled water.

... or at the very least, bottled water from a reverse osmosis system.

This is an old canard that has been talked about before; lots of strong feeling on both sides of the debate. Not-withstanding, news flash folks: distilled water is NOT sterile. Your humidifier tank is also not sterile. Your hose is not sterile, neither is your mask.

Lots of folks just leave water in their humidifier tank, topping it up as needed. Others dump, wash and dry their tank daily. Who knows which is better? Certainly not me. I do know this, however, distilled water is no guarantee of bacteria-free water.

[Scarlet834]

The moral?

Use distilled water.

... or at the very least, bottled water from a reverse osmosis system.

This is an old canard that has been talked about before; lots of strong feeling on both sides of the debate. Not-withstanding, news flash folks: distilled water is NOT sterile. Your humidifier tank is also not sterile. Your hose is not sterile, neither is your mask.

Lots of folks just leave water in their humidifier tank, topping it up as needed. Others dump, wash and dry their tank daily. Who knows which is better? Certainly not me. I do know this, however, distilled water is no guarantee of bacteria-free water.

I'm a dry-it-out in between girl. I have too much experience on the job with how bacteria multiply in deionized/purified water in a manufacturing setting. Standing water of any kind is a huge risk in that environment (and I mean in clean equipment, not puddles on the floor). No direct experience with distilled water, however. I found the following reference. It seems that as long as everything stays clean, i.e. no organic "food" enters the mix the risk is low, and certainly distilled water is safer than other water sources. I personally feel best not giving the little critters any time to multiply.

In terms of micro contamination (not mineral deposits) I am less concerned with using tap water or bottled water and emptying the humidifier daily than utilizing the same tank of water day after day after day. I'd rather not worry about whether everything thing has stayed clean enough to prohibit any organic matter entering the mix as food.

The quotes I was interested in:
"Some of the water microbes can live in distilled water to which the smallest amount of organic matter has been added."
"The statement that certain forms of bacteria can flourish in clean distilled water seems to be untrue When transferred to such a medium the organisms soon die and undergo a granular degeneration of their substance If however in their introduction a good sized drop of culture material is carried with them the distilled water ceases to be such and becomes a dilute bouillon fitted to support life for a time."

http://books.google.com/books?id=eZwlc5 ... 3F&f=false

[Gerryk]

I have a humidifier in my bedroom for some extra moisture. This humidifier has a light in it that blinks and supposedly kills bacteria. For the life of me at this moment I can't recall what kind of light it is. I am just wondering when the manufacturers are going to incorporate something like this into our cpaps? If it can be put in a humidifier that costs under 100 bucks why not into a cpap? That would only make sense to add additional protection since it is being blown right into your lungs.

Gerry

[roster]

That is probably an ultraviolet light, but I did not know they would blink. I stayed in Mumbai with a friend in his very nice high rise apartment. Where the water came into the building from the city, the apartment management had installed a fairly large storage tank. The tank had ultraviolet lights to kill bacteria coming in the city water.

[bearded_two]

City tap water water could inhibit the growth of bacteria better than distilled water. City tap water frequently contains chloramine, which maintains a degree of bacteriostatic properties in tap water for some period of time after it has been drawn. A normal charcoal water filter will not remove the chloramine, although it will remove chlorine. Distilled and bottled drinking water doesn't have any bacteriostatic properties.

[OldLincoln]

This is an old canard that has been talked about before; lots of strong feeling on both sides of the debate. Not-withstanding, news flash folks: distilled water is NOT sterile. Your humidifier tank is also not sterile. Your hose is not sterile, neither is your mask.

Lots of folks just leave water in their humidifier tank, topping it up as needed. Others dump, wash and dry their tank daily. Who knows which is better? Certainly not me. I do know this, however, distilled water is no guarantee of bacteria-free water.

Well I have to admit I've never seen a gallon jug of water labeled "Sterile", but then what makes you think needles for shots or surgical tools are sterile? The label?!! Distilled water may or may not be sterile, but it's pretty darn close, and a whole lot better than tap water.

[timbalionguy]

That is probably an ultraviolet light, but I did not know they would blink. I stayed in Mumbai with a friend in his very nice high rise apartment. Where the water came into the building from the city, the apartment management had installed a fairly large storage tank. The tank had ultraviolet lights to kill bacteria coming in the city water.

It takes shortwaae ultravoilet light to kill bacteria in water. At this point in time, it takes a low pressure mercury (a.k.a. fluorescent) lamp to generate any amount of this kind of energy, and these lamps tend to have relatively short lives. But since they have long wave ultraviolet LED's now, it is just a matter of time before someone comes up with a shortwave ultraviolet LED. I then would not be surprised to see these cropping up all over, not just in CPAP machines.

I will have to agree with Oldlincoln that for all reasonable intents and purposes, good quality distilled water is sterile. No bacteriostatic properties, but the concentration of bacteria and the nutrients they need to live on would be quite low. Routine cleaning of the tank probably introduces far more bacteria and 'food' for same. But another good argument for changing your water daily is that water will trap a lot of chemicals that are in the air, and pass right through the machine's filter. So, if changed daily, the water actually helps filter some of these chemicals out of the air.

[Gerryk]

Perhaps it didn't blink on and off. Thinking back, I didn't use this one in my room last year I used a different one. I have it on now and it doesn't blink.


As far as sterile water being bottled. Yes, water is bottled and marked as sterile water. It is used in the medical field. Ambulances carry liter bottles of sterile water, which comes with a seal indicating it has not been opened and therefore is still sterile. They do have an expiration date but so do bandaids and almost all other medical supplies.

Of course once that bottle of sterile water is opened it is no longer considered sterile.

And to think all of us M series owners have been commenting about the blue lights on the buttons on our machines.

Gerry

[brain_cloud]

Not-withstanding, news flash folks: distilled water is NOT sterile.

Right, distilled water is not sterile. Hey, you know what is sterile? Urine. I'm just sayin.

[roster]

Right, distilled water is not sterile. Hey, you know what is sterile? Urine. I'm just sayin.

I have heard that many times. On the other hand, to confirm a urinary tract infection, don't they check a urine sample for bacteria?

Just askin'.