Newbie frustrated with new mask!

[Kate1958]

I am a mouth breather, so the nasal pillows are not working for me. I was only able to wear it for 10 minutes, due to the forced air coming out of my mouth! I'm thinking about trying the Hybrid mask. Any suggestions would be great!!

[Gerryk]

Welcome aboard the boards Kate.
You need to find what works for you. However when you use a nasal interface, you need to keep your mouth shut. Some people wear a chin strap to help remind them to and to keep their mouth shut. A mouth breather has a very hard time adjusting to this, but some do adjust. Are you a mouth breather out of habit or do you have sinus problems or your nose just blocked up 24/7? If your nose is open, you should give it another try and try keeping your mouth shut and or using a chin strap.

I have not used a nasal interface much, and I am sure others who have will offer their advice.

Being a life long mouth breather with bad allergies and nose problems I finally got the quattro full face mask to work for me. Not for a lack of trying hybrid or nasal interfaces, I think I tried each one at least two times.

Gerry

[Kate1958]

Thank you Gerry for welcoming me to the boards!! I'm so glad that I found this forum. It will truly keep me motivated to get moving into the right direction. My oxygen levels were 76% during the sleep study, so I have mild sleep apnea. I am a mouth breather out of habit, and snore like a "wilda beast", so says my husband-ha! I also wake up every morning with headaches, and a bit scatter brained in the mornings!! So- looking forward to feeling better eventually.

[DreamOn]

I am a mouth breather, so the nasal pillows are not working for me. I was only able to wear it for 10 minutes, due to the forced air coming out of my mouth! I'm thinking about trying the Hybrid mask. Any suggestions would be great!!

Welcome, Kate!

I tried one of the hybrid masks during mask fitting, but it didn't seem to work for me. Everyone's different, so perhaps someone else will come along here and share their experience with that.

I use both nasal pillows (AEIOMed Headrest) and a nasal mask (ResMed Mirage Activa LT). I'm not normally a mouth breather at all. But I did find myself with my mouth open occasionally during the night, with air escaping. This occurs especially during deep and REM sleep, as all our muscles totally relax. I solved my problem with a PAPCap, a wide cotton chin strap that affixes to a cotton cap. I find it to be quite comfortable, and I have ZERO mouth leaks now. I've noticed that I feel better too. You can purchase one here if interested: https://www.cpap.com/productpage/pursle ... otton.html.

I was feeling scatter-brained all day long before CPAP! I feel terrific now -- clear-headed, with great energy!

This is a great forum for information and support. I hope you keep coming back!

~ DreamOn

[plr66]

Some of us have been able to achieve the best therapy using nasal pillows while taping our mouths shut with 2" blue painters' tape for delicate surfaces. Use a strip about 4-5" long at most, turning each end under to make a pull tab of about 1/4". You do need to very careful to remove the tape very slowly, and flat against itself, pressing against your face as you peel it back.

Edit: Forgot to add that it's a good idea to use chap stick and to slightly purse & fully roll in your lips between your teeth in a "granny-mouth" before taping, to avoid drooling and loosening the tape while you're sleeping.

[arth]

it would be much better if you trained yourself to nose breathe, its better for your health, improves the gas balance inside you, the nostrils heat, filter and humidify the air, a full face type mask seems best for now, these cover mouth and nose, with mouth breathing you need a humidifier

[sronsen]

arth wrote:
it would be much better if you trained yourself to nose breathe . . .

I don't want to insult anyone, but I really don't understand the mouth breathing thing even though my wife was a chronic mouth breather as a result of a childhood fracture which was improperly treated, and after successful surgery, she still needs to be reminded to breath through her nose.

Here's what I can't understand. If I open my mouth, I do not/can not automatically breathe through my mouth. I have to do some difficult to describe thing with my throat muscles to switch inputs and outputs. Using a nasal mask or pillows at pressure seems to make this switch more difficult. I can open my mouth all I want with my mask without any air escaping through my mouth. I don't do that because I would probably drool all over my pillow. During my sleep test, while on CPAP, I did something which abruptly opened my mouth air circuit, and I instantly learned NEVER to do that again, so I don't understand how some people would be unaware, much less unawakened by inadvertent mouth breathing while on CPAP. I also don't understand how chin straps can prevent air exhausting through the teeth and lips if the "valves" are open.

Can someone please explain the anatomy of breathing through the nose or mouth so that I may lose my inclination to advise people to break a bad habit which makes CPAP much more difficult to adopt. Maybe it will help me break my wife's bad habit before she needs CPAP.

Thanks. I hope no one takes offense.

[DreamOn]

arth wrote:
it would be much better if you trained yourself to nose breathe . . .

I don't want to insult anyone, but I really don't understand the mouth breathing thing even though my wife was a chronic mouth breather as a result of a childhood fracture which was improperly treated, and after successful surgery, she still needs to be reminded to breath through her nose.

Here's what I can't understand. If I open my mouth, I do not/can not automatically breathe through my mouth. I have to do some difficult to describe thing with my throat muscles to switch inputs and outputs. Using a nasal mask or pillows at pressure seems to make this switch more difficult. I can open my mouth all I want with my mask without any air escaping through my mouth. I don't do that because I would probably drool all over my pillow. During my sleep test, while on CPAP, I did something which abruptly opened my mouth air circuit, and I instantly learned NEVER to do that again, so I don't understand how some people would be unaware, much less unawakened by inadvertent mouth breathing while on CPAP. I also don't understand how chin straps can prevent air exhausting through the teeth and lips if the "valves" are open.

Can someone please explain the anatomy of breathing through the nose or mouth so that I may lose my inclination to advise people to break a bad habit which makes CPAP much more difficult to adopt. Maybe it will help me break my wife's bad habit before she needs CPAP.

Thanks. I hope no one takes offense.

No offense taken here, sronsen.

I think I know the experience that you're talking about that you had during your sleep test -- like a hurricane is coming out of your mouth! The pressurized air is escaping through your mouth rather than going into your throat as it should. This lessens the effectiveness of CPAP, since it's not keeping your airway open.

I've been using CPAP for a month. I found that I would occasionally open my mouth and have that rush of air that I just described. Sometimes it would be just little "puffs" of air escaping. Oftentimes it would wake me up, and other times I slept right through this. I was able to sleep through the noise, apparently, because I was in deep or REM sleep when it happened. All of our muscles completely relax during REM sleep, including the jaw, tongue and throat muscles. That's why our mouth tends to drop open during that period of sleep. We have much greater control of those muscles while awake.

After starting CPAP therapy, I trained myself to keep my tongue on the roof of my mouth, to form a seal against my throat. But despite that, I realized that I was leaking therapy air out of my mouth (without noticing it). I learned this by checking the leak numbers on my machine. I figured that since my mask didn't seem to be leaking, the air must be leaking out my mouth while I was deep asleep. Sure enough, once I started using the PAPCap chin strap to keep my mouth closed, I have had zero leaks every night. I can still breathe through my mouth if I need to, but it seems to hold the tongue in place enough to keep any air from escaping. It worked for me, but I realize that it may not help everyone.

Everyone has slightly different anatomy. Perhaps your throat muscles are stronger than others. When I open up my mouth during the day, I don't have to even think about breathing through my mouth. It just happens automatically for me, without any effort to "switch inputs and outputs" as you describe. But I don't normally mouth breathe at all during the day.

If there is dry mouth, sore throat, or chapped lips that may be an indication of mouth leaking. In addition to a chin strap, other remedies that sometimes work are increased heated humidity, full-face mask, and some people use tape.

~ DreamOn

[DreamOn]

If I open my mouth, I do not/can not automatically breathe through my mouth. I have to do some difficult to describe thing with my throat muscles to switch inputs and outputs. Using a nasal mask or pillows at pressure seems to make this switch more difficult. I can open my mouth all I want with my mask without any air escaping through my mouth.

I just re-read your message, and wanted to comment on this part. That's interesting because if I open my mouth with the nasal or pillows mask on, the air will just fly out of my mouth like a hurricane, unless I have my tongue firmly planted on the roof of my mouth. With the tongue in place the air doesn't escape, but if it's in the normal position, the air comes right out the mouth! Maybe your tongue is blocking air passage, even with your mouth open???

~ DreamOn

[sronsen]

DreamOn wrote:
Maybe your tongue is blocking air passage, even with your mouth open???

I guess so. I don't know if my physiology is unusual, but it certainly made the adjustment to CPAP a lot easier than most have experienced. I hadn't realized that I inherited at least ONE positive physical attribute. Apparently, my son has the gene too. Uh, maybe that's why we both have OSA??? Not so good!

[plr66]

Sorry to be the contrarian, but as you sit here reading, place your tongue solidly against the roof of your mouth. Close your lips. Breathe out through your mouth. Easy. Clench your teeth as would be the case with a chin strap, and breathe out through your mouth. Easy. Mouth leaking can easily happen, despite these suggestions by many here. Further, the object while sleeping is for the body to achieve a relaxed state. I'm will to bet that those who plant their tongues on the roof of their mouth (and I'm one who has learned to do this for TMJ reasons), will not maintain this all night while sleeping.

[sronsen]

plr66 wrote:
Sorry to be the contrarian. . .

I have no answers for anyone. I'm still curious as to why some people have trouble with mouth breathing while others, myself included, have no problem keeping their mouth shut, even during deepest sleep.

I tried your tongue at roof of mouth thing, and frankly, I find it pretty hard to breathe through my mouth. Anyway, that's irrelevant as that "posture" is foreign to me and it's not the reason I can't inadvertently breathe through my mouth.

[DreamOn]

Sorry to be the contrarian, but as you sit here reading, place your tongue solidly against the roof of your mouth. Close your lips. Breathe out through your mouth. Easy. Clench your teeth as would be the case with a chin strap, and breathe out through your mouth. Easy. Mouth leaking can easily happen, despite these suggestions by many here. Further, the object while sleeping is for the body to achieve a relaxed state. I'm will to bet that those who plant their tongues on the roof of their mouth (and I'm one who has learned to do this for TMJ reasons), will not maintain this all night while sleeping.

Hi plr66,

I'm not really sure who you're responding to, if anyone in particular, but I tried your experiment just now. Yes, a bit of air does come out of my mouth. But it doesn't happen when I am using the CPAP machine. There are no hurricane-force winds or even puffs of air escaping if I keep my tongue up during therapy, blocking my throat. I agree that few (if any) can keep their tongues on the roof of their mouth all night long, especially when the muscles fully relax. And that's exactly why I now use the PAPCap chin strap. I don't even have to think about where my tongue is now. The chin strap works great for me -- zero leaks every night according to my machine. The numbers don't lie. And I feel great. I know that it may not be the solution for everyone, but it may help some.

~ DreamOn

[Gerryk]

A chin strap isn't designed to stop you from mouth breathing. It does encourage you to try and breath through your nose by holding your mouth open.
I mouth breath because I have had severe allergies all my life and also have huge turbinates and a deviation in the septum which will be fixed.
I myself find that if i can move air through my nose that holding my mouth shut is a reminder for me to breath through my nose.

Gerry

[DreamOn]

DreamOn wrote:
Maybe your tongue is blocking air passage, even with your mouth open???

I guess so. I don't know if my physiology is unusual, but it certainly made the adjustment to CPAP a lot easier than most have experienced. I hadn't realized that I inherited at least ONE positive physical attribute. Apparently, my son has the gene too. Uh, maybe that's why we both have OSA??? Not so good!

sronsen,

Interesting topic! I'm just curious....if you stretch out your tongue more, or lay it down flat, is it then easier for you to automatically switch from nose to mouth breathing? I just asked my husband to open his mouth and tell me if he automatically switches to mouth breathing, without having to think about it. He said "yes" -- same as me.

Interestingly, it seems that this feature that is a blessing for you during treatment may have been a negative before treatment, making your airway more prone to closure. I dunno. I have mild/moderate sleep apnea, so maybe that's why my tongue/throat work differently than yours? And my husband has no apnea. It's interesting.

Like I said, everyone's anatomy is slightly different. I actually have adjusted to CPAP really well too, with very few problems and great results from Day 1. My mouth leaks were never large (always well within normal tolerances per the machine stats), but I wanted to bring my leak rate to zero if I could, mainly to see if it improved how I felt. And I do think it has made a difference. As long as you're happy with your results, that's all that matters.

~ DreamOn