Insurance companies will eat you for lunch

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roster
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Insurance companies will eat you for lunch

Post by roster » Fri Nov 20, 2009 3:21 pm

If Congress succeeds with the current health-whatever bill, the established insurance companies will become ever more entrenched, what little competition there is today will go away, rates will go up and benefits will decline.

Here are some highlights of an opinion by Dr. Jeffrey Flier, dean of the Harvard Medical school:
-currently proposed federal legislation would undermine any potential for real innovation in insurance and the provision of care.

-However, there are no provisions to substantively control the growth of costs or raise the quality of care. So the overall effort will fail to qualify as reform.

-the final legislation that will emerge from Congress will markedly accelerate national health-care spending rather than restrain it

-the legislation would do little or nothing to improve quality or change health-care's dysfunctional delivery system

-currently proposed federal legislation would undermine any potential for real innovation in insurance and the provision of care.

-an accelerated crisis of health-care costs and perpetuation of the current dysfunctional system

-our capacity to innovate and develop new therapies would suffer most of all.
Here are his complete comments.
By JEFFREY S. FLIER
As the dean of Harvard Medical School I am frequently asked to comment on the health-reform debate. I'd give it a failing grade.

Instead of forthrightly dealing with the fundamental problems, discussion is dominated by rival factions struggling to enact or defeat President Barack Obama's agenda. The rhetoric on both sides is exaggerated and often deceptive. Those of us for whom the central issue is health—not politics—have been left in the lurch. And as controversy heads toward a conclusion in Washington, it appears that the people who favor the legislation are engaged in collective denial.

Our health-care system suffers from problems of cost, access and quality, and needs major reform. Tax policy drives employment-based insurance; this begets overinsurance and drives costs upward while creating inequities for the unemployed and self-employed. A regulatory morass limits innovation. And deep flaws in Medicare and Medicaid drive spending without optimizing care.

Speeches and news reports can lead you to believe that proposed congressional legislation would tackle the problems of cost, access and quality. But that's not true. The various bills do deal with access by expanding Medicaid and mandating subsidized insurance at substantial cost—and thus addresses an important social goal. However, there are no provisions to substantively control the growth of costs or raise the quality of care. So the overall effort will fail to qualify as reform.


.In discussions with dozens of health-care leaders and economists, I find near unanimity of opinion that, whatever its shape, the final legislation that will emerge from Congress will markedly accelerate national health-care spending rather than restrain it. Likewise, nearly all agree that the legislation would do little or nothing to improve quality or change health-care's dysfunctional delivery system. The system we have now promotes fragmented care and makes it more difficult than it should be to assess outcomes and patient satisfaction. The true costs of health care are disguised, competition based on price and quality are almost impossible, and patients lose their ability to be the ultimate judges of value.

Worse, currently proposed federal legislation would undermine any potential for real innovation in insurance and the provision of care. It would do so by overregulating the health-care system in the service of special interests such as insurance companies, hospitals, professional organizations and pharmaceutical companies, rather than the patients who should be our primary concern.

In effect, while the legislation would enhance access to insurance, the trade-off would be an accelerated crisis of health-care costs and perpetuation of the current dysfunctional system—now with many more participants. This will make an eventual solution even more difficult. Ultimately, our capacity to innovate and develop new therapies would suffer most of all.

There are important lessons to be learned from recent experience with reform in Massachusetts. Here, insurance mandates similar to those proposed in the federal legislation succeeded in expanding coverage but—despite initial predictions—increased total spending.

A "Special Commission on the Health Care Payment System" recently declared that the Massachusetts health-care payment system must be changed over the next five years, most likely to one involving "capitated" payments instead of the traditional fee-for-service system. Capitation means that newly created organizations of physicians and other health-care providers will be given limited dollars per patient for all of their care, allowing for shared savings if spending is below the targets. Unfortunately, the details of this massive change—necessitated by skyrocketing costs and a desire to improve quality—are completely unspecified by the commission, although a new Massachusetts state bureaucracy clearly will be required.

Yet it's entirely unclear how such unspecified changes would impact physician practices and compensation, hospital organizations and their capacity to invest, and the ability of patients to receive the kind and quality of care they desire. Similar challenges would eventually confront the entire country on a more explosive scale if the current legislation becomes law.

Selling an uncertain and potentially unwelcome outcome such as this to the public would be a challenging task. It is easier to assert, confidently but disingenuously, that decreased costs and enhanced quality would result from the current legislation.

So the majority of our representatives may congratulate themselves on reducing the number of uninsured, while quietly understanding this can only be the first step of a multiyear process to more drastically change the organization and funding of health care in America. I have met many people for whom this strategy is conscious and explicit.

We should not be making public policy in such a crucial area by keeping the electorate ignorant of the actual road ahead.

Dr. Flier is dean of the Harvard Medical School.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 54014.html
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Re: Insurance companies will eat you for lunch

Post by timbalionguy » Fri Nov 20, 2009 3:28 pm

My question to you, Rooster, is why to you think the general populace is swallowing this health care 'reform' hook, line and sinker. Are people REALLY that naive?
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Re: Insurance companies will eat you for lunch

Post by Autopapdude » Fri Nov 20, 2009 3:37 pm

Dr. Flier is dean of the Harvard Medical School.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 54014.html
The dean of Harvard Medical School would not be the most unbiased source in terms of health care reform, as they're advocating for what is best for their clientele--would-be doctors.

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Re: Insurance companies will eat you for lunch

Post by roster » Fri Nov 20, 2009 3:38 pm

timbalionguy wrote:My question to you, Rooster, is why to you think the general populace is swallowing this health care 'reform' hook, line and sinker. Are people REALLY that naive?
Timba, Isn't answering that a little much to expect of me?

But I will start and let others add on.

1. Some wise wag has said, "If you rob Peter to pay Paul, you are assured of continuing to have the votes of Paul."

2. "The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money."
- Alexis de Tocqueville

3.
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Re: Insurance companies will eat you for lunch

Post by Muse-Inc » Fri Nov 20, 2009 3:43 pm

Personally I'm disgusted with all of 'em, congress that is, puppets of big biz, insurance, & pharma! I think the only way we'll get congress to use what functional brain cells they have is to require by law that they and their immediate and extended family plus those of the executive and judical branches are the first ones to come under the new rules with no bypassing the system via the Congressional Doctors Office or private insurance.
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Re: Insurance companies will eat you for lunch

Post by PST » Fri Nov 20, 2009 3:58 pm

rooster wrote:If Congress succeeds with the current health-whatever bill, the established insurance companies will become ever more entrenched, what little competition there is today will go away, rates will go up and benefits will decline.
It's hard to understand why the insurance companies are opposing the plan so adamantly, isn't it, if it's really designed to help them. It's equally hard to understand why sources that rail constantly against the "elites," and would normally regard the opinion of a Harvard dean as proof of diabolical intent, treat one like a prophet if he happens to agree with them. Dean Flier's essay seems terribly vague, full of mere assertions without much reasoning or evidence. His basic complaint seems to be that the bill, which is already long and complicated, doesn't tackle even more problems. It is a shame that it doesn't do more to deal with some of the causes of rising costs, but I lay that deficiency at the feet of the opponents. At the moment, even the most innocuous attempt to control costs is met with the charge of death panels.

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Re: Insurance companies will eat you for lunch

Post by TWW » Fri Nov 20, 2009 4:04 pm

Personally, I'm tired of all of 'em, puppets of thinly disguised communists and undisguised race-baiters.

Regarding the question of whether The People are naive enough to allow Obamacare to bear its natural (rotten) fruit, apparently some 52% of the voting population are -- because they were warned before the election.

Funny that one poster is accusing enemies of ObamaCare as being the ones raising spurious arguments, since the Dems seem to spend most of their time calling people like me Nazis, rather than explaining how costs will ever go down without tort reform.

As to discussion of Death Panels, how does that concept differ significantly from "End of Life Counselors" as specified in the House bill?

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Re: Insurance companies will eat you for lunch

Post by PST » Fri Nov 20, 2009 4:35 pm

TWW wrote:Funny that one poster is accusing enemies of ObamaCare as being the ones raising spurious arguments, since the Dems seem to spend most of their time calling people like me Nazis, rather than explaining how costs will ever go down without tort reform.
You've got to be kidding! Have you been watching the news? Did you see the banner held up by the anti-reform demonstrators at the Capitol showing the bodies stacked at Dachau, proclaiming this "National Socialist Health Reform"? How many posters have we seen of Obama with a Hitler mustache, Obama as the Joker, Obama as a witch doctor? The abuse has been pretty much one way. The idea that the Democrats "spend most of their time" calling people like you Nazis is ridiculous and false. Most of the abuse goes the other way.
As to discussion of Death Panels, how does that concept differ significantly from "End of Life Counselors" as specified in the House bill?
Because the only thing the House bill does on this subject is to add an item to the list of things that Medicare is allowed to pay for. Under the bill, Medicare will cover an appointment with a doctor or other clinician to discuss end of life issues, but not more than once every five years. There is nothing compulsory, nothing giving a counselor power to prescribe or deny care, nothing at all like the claims made for death panels. AARP and other organizations for seniors support the measure.

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Re: Insurance companies will eat you for lunch

Post by JeffH » Fri Nov 20, 2009 6:54 pm

PST, their side doesn't want health care reform. EVERY time they have been in power they have done NOTHING....except pass the pharma / insurance welfare bill in '05.

Seen any plans their side has offered up? There aren't any. BTW, they holler the loudest about "tort reform". What a joke. Ever heard of a Doctor being sued in FEDERAL court? Me either. That's a states issue and they all know it, but it sounds good to the idiots that support them.

Don't talk about the additional deficit either. Bush's two tax cuts added trillions to that number and then add on two wars....none of it "funded". Righties, you have no case. Now please shut the ____ up.

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Re: Insurance companies will eat you for lunch

Post by cv66er » Fri Nov 20, 2009 10:16 pm

JeffH wrote:Now please shut the ____ up.
Sir,

Although I agree with your politics, that was uncalled for. Both sides have an equal right to be heard.

I have seen other lists tear themselves apart turning a topic they all have a mutual interest in into a political screaming match. I would prefer not to see that happen here.

To those on the other side, I would respectfully remind you of your insistence on showing the previous administration some respect, and would ask of you what you asked of us. Whether you voted for him or not, Obama is President now, and deserves a chance to carry out the agenda he ran under, and that the majority of Americans voted for.

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Re: Insurance companies will eat you for lunch

Post by TWW » Sat Nov 21, 2009 12:51 am

Before I light the match, I will give an AMEN to criticism of Republican politicians. They, thinking that this was about parties being in power, have been booed off many a Tea-party stage.
To those on the other side, I would respectfully remind you of your insistence on showing the previous administration some respect, and would ask of you what you asked of us. Whether you voted for him or not, Obama is President now, and deserves a chance to carry out the agenda he ran under, and that the majority of Americans voted for.
Respectfully? Really? Then I fear I must respectfully disagree with that position.

Over the past nine years we have had to hear/watch (in no particular order):
References to "BusHitler" and "Bush Lied People Died"
Bush in a Nazi uniform
A Book and a movie about "The Assassination of George Bush"
Code Pink
The "Bushisms" column
Pelosi alleging that I am a Nazi, and that some Pharm company sent me to protest
The head of the DNC calling me a racist
the current POTUS saying that people who disagree with him should "just shut up"
the current POTUS using the vulgarity "teabaggers"
The use of the phrase "house slave" for black members of the Bush administration
the suggestion that it was all done for oil
SNL doing a bit with Mr. Palin lusting after his own daughter
Dan Rather present fake documents as an attempted October Surprise

...And now you say that the conservatives should be respectful of both left-wing rhetoric and the left-wing president's goals?

If civility was the Left's standard, they should have led by example. They did not, because it is not. They demand the rhetorical equivalent of wielding Gatling guns to the Right's daggers.

And for the first time in two generations -- longer? -- the Right is giving it back in the same spirit as their opponents. The Left, thinking that the rights of protest, free speech, public anger, and slanted media were all their exclusive domain (due to a rather self-serving sense of moral superiority), has cried foul.

They forfeited any right to demand civility decades ago. The playing field is, finally, becoming leveled.

By the way, I have no intention of carrying this to other threads. Part of community includes the ability to go "off topic" in restricted ways, without having to intrude on the subjects of power supplies, data cards, and rainouts.

Besides which, Rooster started it.

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Re: Insurance companies will eat you for lunch

Post by timbalionguy » Sat Nov 21, 2009 1:57 am

All Rooster did is post an interesting article that talks about some of the many problems of this insane health care bill. This bill, plain and simple takes health care out of the hands of our doctors (and us as well) and puts in the hands of bureaucrats. This bill is so complex and expensive that is will bankrupt the government (unless they tax us to death like they do in other socialist countries). (BTW, Rooster, I wasn't expecting you to be an expert. I just wanted your take on what you thought the article was saying. You did get the drift of what I was asking, and I liked your answer).

What really needs to be done is the 'cash cow' parts of the system need to be broken. Open the medical industry to full competition. Drop the prescription drug act for most drugs. So the same for durable medical equipment. At the same time, give health care providers protection from the extreme lawsuits they seem to have to always fight. Give patients more control over their health care, and the freedom to treat things by themselves if they so desire (but they become responsible for their treatment and could not blame failure on another entitiy). And if need be, put restrictions on what health care providers can charge for their products or services. Above all, get the greed out of the health care system so we don't have to listen to stories here about bad treatment from inadequate 9or greedy) DME's.

As far as 'death panels' go, what is being referred to here is not 'end of life counseling', but rather rationing out or refusing certain treatments to people based on their age and physical condition. The panels that make the decision to withold treatment that is otherwise viable to reduce the 'social cost' of medicine, and usher in a new era of involuntary human euthanasia.

I hope this whole current health care mess ends up going no where. This could go down as one of the worst pieces of legislation ever.
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Re: Insurance companies will eat you for lunch

Post by Patrick A » Sat Nov 21, 2009 2:42 am

A couple of weeks ago I went to a local hospital. I had an Eco-cardiogram done on my heart {yes I do have one} I hope I spelled that correctly. Anyway I got an Expliation of benefits from my BC/BS FEHB, it showed that they and Medicare were bill almost $3,000.00 for a procedure that took all of 1 hr. Medicare Paid almost $400.00 and BC/BS FEHB paid almost $100.00 give or take $16.00 for all three amounts.

No wonder I can't get a new Bi-Pap machine from APRIA RIPOFF. I want to know why the medical costs are so expensive.

If the current herd gets their way we will have socialized medicine.

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Re: Insurance companies will eat you for lunch

Post by roster » Sat Nov 21, 2009 6:04 am

Well guys, when we don't understand, or even know, what is in the bill, all we can do is sling mud.

Carry on.
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Re: Insurance companies will eat you for lunch

Post by Slinky » Sat Nov 21, 2009 7:43 am

I wonder how much would/could be saved if hospitals were no longer required to treat illegal aliens? But, then, of course, to do that would be totally out of character for the American way, to let someone die because they couldn't pay for that medical care.

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