How did the new FullLife stack up against the Quattro: PC11

[sifr]

I wish I'd known this was coming down the pike, since I received my FullLife one day before the results were posted.

Oh well. I'll still try it and see. I tried a ComfortGel last night, and it felt very uncomfortable and leaky. But the data showed a 95%ile leak rate approaching 0, and I had 3 apneas in 8.5 hours of sleep. THREE! I usually have dozens. I really don't like the ComfortGel, but if I get that kind of therapy out of it, I may have to pick one up (this one's a loaner). This was with my machine set to MIR FULL.


But I still have hopes for the FullLife. I'm going to try it tonight. Sadly, I own that one, so it can't go back. Maybe I'll get decent therapy from it as well.

[sifr]

Quick followup: Tried the FullLife last night. It felt comfortable (though delicate) when I put it on and finally figured out the straps. But it leaked all night long, and I woke up with the chin strap not even on my chin anymore. I also hated the inability to hit two catches and have the thing off my face as soon as I woke up. The detailed graphs verified what I feared: leaks high and constant throughout the night, and occasionally completely unacceptable. My AHI was higher than with the Quattro.

I'm going to try my best to exchange it. It's an interesting idea, but one that just doesn't seem to work in practice.

[BleepingBeauty]

Quick followup: Tried the FullLife last night. It felt comfortable (though delicate) when I put it on and finally figured out the straps. But it leaked all night long, and I woke up with the chin strap not even on my chin anymore. I also hated the inability to hit two catches and have the thing off my face as soon as I woke up. The detailed graphs verified what I feared: leaks high and constant throughout the night, and occasionally completely unacceptable. My AHI was higher than with the Quattro.

I'm going to try my best to exchange it. It's an interesting idea, but one that just doesn't seem to work in practice.

Wow, you can tell after just one (lousy) night that a particular mask is no good for you? Why not adjust it for the leaks and see if you get better results? Took me awhile to tweak the FullLife, but it gives me the best therapy, so the time I invested in fine-tuning it was worth it.

Maybe the FullLife really isn't a good mask for you, but how can you possibly know that after just one (leaky, no less) night?

[sifr]

Quick followup: Tried the FullLife last night. It felt comfortable (though delicate) when I put it on and finally figured out the straps. But it leaked all night long, and I woke up with the chin strap not even on my chin anymore. I also hated the inability to hit two catches and have the thing off my face as soon as I woke up. The detailed graphs verified what I feared: leaks high and constant throughout the night, and occasionally completely unacceptable. My AHI was higher than with the Quattro.

I'm going to try my best to exchange it. It's an interesting idea, but one that just doesn't seem to work in practice.

Wow, you can tell after just one (lousy) night that a particular mask is no good for you? Why not adjust it for the leaks and see if you get better results? Took me awhile to tweak the FullLife, but it gives me the best therapy, so the time I invested in fine-tuning it was worth it.

Maybe the FullLife really isn't a good mask for you, but how can you possibly know that after just one (leaky, no less) night?

because the leaks were around my chin, and I tried with the thing both loose enough to "float" and so tight that it was uncomfortable. At a constant pressure of 12.6, that mask doesn't seem to want to seal on my face. I'm all for tweaking, but I'm also not willing to sacrifice multiple nights of restful sleep playing with a mask that, in my opinion, was poorly-designed, particularly when I have another mask on loan that's infinitely better.

[BleepingBeauty]

Wow, you can tell after just one (lousy) night that a particular mask is no good for you? Why not adjust it for the leaks and see if you get better results? Took me awhile to tweak the FullLife, but it gives me the best therapy, so the time I invested in fine-tuning it was worth it.

Maybe the FullLife really isn't a good mask for you, but how can you possibly know that after just one (leaky, no less) night?

because the leaks were around my chin, and I tried with the thing both loose enough to "float" and so tight that it was uncomfortable. At a constant pressure of 12.6, that mask doesn't seem to want to seal on my face. I'm all for tweaking, but I'm also not willing to sacrifice multiple nights of restful sleep playing with a mask that, in my opinion, was poorly-designed, particularly when I have another mask on loan that's infinitely better.

Could be you had the wrong size cushion, but it doesn't matter. I'm glad you have a mask that works well for you.

And I wasn't advocating that anyone spend countless bad nights in a row trying to adjust a mask. We're all here to improve our therapy.

One night just isn't an adequate trial for any mask, IMO. (And it is just that - MY opinion. And you know what they say about opinions... )

[ozij]

I do see two problems with the product challenges in masks when the comparison is of a "newcomer" against the one a person has been using for months, or even years

• Many of us find a favorite masks after a long process of trial and error -- and the mask we finally select is the one that fits our individual face form. So pitting any new mask against an older one on people who have been using the older one is problematic. The results in this case only tell us that Quattro users don't do well with the FullLlife. We have no idea how the FullLife would serve those who rejected the Quattro. Suppose the Quattro was terrible for persons with a receding chin, and the FullLife great for them. The way the challenge is run, nobody would find that out.
• The second problem has to do with the fact that a mask and the way it feels becomes part of our sleep habits, and a change may disruptive by and of itself.

.

I don't know how feasible this is for cpap.com but I would really like to see 2 "other" masks pitted against each other on users of the third. Now that, of course of a problem, because, anyone who uses mask 3, and has already rejected mask 1 or 2 would not join a challenge which pitted 2 and 1 against each other.

In mask challenges I think it isvery important to give the results by gender. Woman's heads have a different shape than men's. And as long as the manufacturer's are not making masks shaped for women we should at least find out which men's mask is better for us.

O.

[Guest]

the premise of a 'challenge' between two items that are designed to fit a wide spectrum of people with majorly different physical characteristics is a joke in its very concept. It's akin to comparing the same set of pants on two different women or asking which beer is "better." Hogwash.

Smart people know that some masks fit some people well and others fit others well. Nobody with at least a minimal level of intelligence will lend merit to such a silly comparison. It's humourous actually to continue to watch people buy based on what 40 strangers say about a mask - each having their own face to fit. To add laughs, go search for all of the complaint threads here about the Quattro.

[DreamDiver]

the premise of a 'challenge' between two items that are designed to fit a wide spectrum of people with majorly different physical characteristics is a joke in its very concept. It's akin to comparing the same set of pants on two different women or asking which beer is "better." Hogwash.

Smart people know that some masks fit some people well and others fit others well. Nobody with at least a minimal level of intelligence will lend merit to such a silly comparison. It's humourous actually to continue to watch people buy based on what 40 strangers say about a mask - each having their own face to fit. To add laughs, go search for all of the complaint threads here about the Quattro.

Guest - that's what we've been trained to do from childhood. We are both victims of the commercial advertisement system in that respect. Consider: how many commercial advertisements use these techniques?

• "Hop on the bandwagon - everyone is buying this product. Gain credibility with the 'gang' by buying it too."
• "Miss Famous Person uses it - you should use it too, and you'll be like her."
• "Mr. Expert Doctor with Credentials endorses this product. You should use it because he knows more than you do."
• "I'm so very sexy. You'll be almost as sexy as I am if you buy this product."

You're not upset when advertisers use all of these techniques to sell the product. You pay millions to advertisement designers to come up with a scheme that holds a user base's attention-span long enough that they won't change the channel and might actually remember the name of the product more than the sexy gal in the skimpy swimsuit.

No, you're upset because this kind of negative endorsement is a wild card over which you, as a product designer/maker/distributor have little or no control. Yes - they are technically strangers in that I have not personally met them face to face. But are we entirely strangers? No. I have met some of them on line as members of a community that is trying to help other members of the same community. Too many times, regardless of what I think or wish, the consensus knowledge and support I've gained from the community members of this forum has helped me. It's been on the mark, useful and reliable. We've grown closer as some of us have passed away and new members have joined. No, it's not the usual kind of community, but it is a community I've become accustomed to trusting with regards to all things xPAP. That's what bothers you.

I did not participate in the product challenge. Fifty other forum members did. They gave their objective opinion without malice - all of them. Forty five of those fifty people said "Meh - If I had to choose between the Full Life and the Quattro, I'd choose the quattro. And I'm not even happy about the Quattro. It comes down to the least painful of two ill-fitting devices." Two of the five who preferred it said the mask actually fit without many problems. The others who preferred the mask (by the star-rating) said things like, "It's not so bad after your nose heals and you get a bridge callous."

Why are you not thankful for these veteran-mask-wearer's objective opinions? You could continue selling the mask because you've invested hundreds/thousands of hours in its design and you demand a return on your investment, but if most of the masks you sell come back as returns or sit in someone's closet as rejects, whom have you served? You have not served your investors with a dud product, the DME's with a higher percentage of returns, and unsuspecting xPAP newbies who are entirely clueless about proper fit and will probably stop using the mask and machine altogether because a leaky fit gave them no therapy.

If this were an aeroplane, it would be grounded. And still - we're talking about people's lives here. If the mask leaks or is too painful to use, we aren't getting therapy - that means we aren't breathing and our lives are significantly shortened because of a crummy product - we're still dying from a defective product - it's just taking a little longer. Why not take this back to your engineers and give them an earful?

• Stop designing masks for engineers.
• Stop building with test dummies.
• Start engaging real mask wearers in the actual design process.
• Ask us what we want in a mask before you even begin the design.
• Ask us what's good and what's lacking in the design throughout the design phase. We need to test the design changes at each phase if we're to be any use to you.
• Get a designer who actually wears a mask to design the mask.
• Give us a wider array of shapes and sizes to fit a wider array of faces.
• Give us a better method for more accurate sizing of the masks you create.

Some beers are clearly better.
Some pants are also clearly better.

[Guest]

some posters are clearly oblivious

[Cygnusia]

Well, obviously, no mask will work for every person.

Would I rather have the opinion of 50 well-informed, veteran mask users instead of a company's sales pitch to go by?

Absolutely.

Does that mean that the mask that comes out on top is going to work for me specifically? Of course not. But reading the reviews of regular people just like me CAN give me a better idea as to which of the two contenders MIGHT work for me.

If you don't like the product challenge, no one's forcing you to read it.

[tinkerbell009]

I've talked to several people who have tried the FitLife full face mask, and most said they were going back to their original masks. I wear a Resmed Ultra Mirage, which is the model before the Quattro, but the same in size/shape, and really like it! Course I also use a RemZzzs every night with it. That makes a very comfortable combo, and why try other masks when what I have is working for me? Seems like the mask companies just keep trying to reinvent the wheel, but basically all the masks have one thing in common...silicone makes the skin sweat. When we sweat, the mask slips around & there goes the seal! The liner I use takes care of that problem & feels so much better against my face than the silicone.

[alerachkalove]

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