Serotonin and OSA

[jskinner]

From the book Clinical Pharmacology of Sleep

'Serotonin

Support for serotonin having a prominent role in the neurochemical basis of upper
airway patency is provided by excitation of brainstem dilator motor neurons by local
administration of serotonin [23–26], and conversely by reduction of brainstem
motor neuron activity by local administration of serotonin antagonists [25, 27, 28].
Identified serotonergic brainstem motor neurons increase activity linearly with respiratory
motor challenges [29], and nucleus raphe pallidus serotonin-containing motor
neurons that innervate brainstem motor neurons implicated in upper airway dilator
muscle activity become less active in non-rapid eye movement (NREM) sleep and
virtually absent in REM sleep [30–32]. Microperfusion of serotonin into brainstem
hypoglossal motor nuclei protects against sleep-related suppression of upper airway
dilator muscle activity in NREM sleep, and attenuates the suppression seen in REM
sleep [33]. Systemic administration of serotonin antagonists in the English bulldog
produces obstructive breathing in wakefulness [34], attesting to the importance
of this neurotransmitter to the maintenance of airway patency in the wake state in
this model. Importantly, the administration of serotonergic drugs (l-tryptophan and
trazadone) in the English bulldog produces a dose-dependent reduction in measures
of sleep-disordered breathing, more markedly in NREM sleep [35].'

[travismcgee]

From the book Clinical Pharmacology of Sleep

'Serotonin

Support for serotonin having a prominent role in the neurochemical basis of upper
airway patency is provided by excitation of brainstem dilator motor neurons by local
administration of serotonin [23–26], and conversely by reduction of brainstem
motor neuron activity by local administration of serotonin antagonists [25, 27, 28].
Identified serotonergic brainstem motor neurons increase activity linearly with respiratory
motor challenges [29], and nucleus raphe pallidus serotonin-containing motor
neurons that innervate brainstem motor neurons implicated in upper airway dilator
muscle activity become less active in non-rapid eye movement (NREM) sleep and
virtually absent in REM sleep [30–32]. Microperfusion of serotonin into brainstem
hypoglossal motor nuclei protects against sleep-related suppression of upper airway
dilator muscle activity in NREM sleep, and attenuates the suppression seen in REM
sleep [33]. Systemic administration of serotonin antagonists in the English bulldog
produces obstructive breathing in wakefulness [34], attesting to the importance
of this neurotransmitter to the maintenance of airway patency in the wake state in
this model. Importantly, the administration of serotonergic drugs (l-tryptophan and
trazadone) in the English bulldog produces a dose-dependent reduction in measures
of sleep-disordered breathing, more markedly in NREM sleep [35].'

Interesting observations regarding the role of serotonin and airway maintenance. I am wondering how similar the characteristics of the English Bulldog
serotonin receptors are to human receptors. Also, it would be interesting to see how or if serotonin plays a role in modulating panting behavior in dogs,
something humans don't do.

Clinical Pharmacology of Sleep looks like a great resource for all things sleep related, although at $159.00 I may have to check my local library for a copy.

[jskinner]

If it ever does turn out that serotonin plays an important role in OSA one has to wonder if psychiatric drugs such as SSRI have played any part in some peoples OSA. Is that why people seem to get some better when on SSRIs for a while, or is it simply due to the reduction of REM and thus less apnea. Even more troubling could those type of drugs actually cause OSA due to altering serotonin systems...

I tend to think of OSA as a symptom rather than a disease. I think we will find many different causes for it eventually. CPAP is a general fix since it address the problem no matter what the cause. Eventually I hope we will have better diagnostic tools and be able to give more specific treatment.

[timbalionguy]

Panting in dogs is their method of cooling their bodies. Dogs don't sweat. Furthermore, dogs are by nature very active animals that run a lot. With the fur, etc, they can build up body heat very quickly while exercising. Brain tissue cannot take body heat increases very well, so dogs have an 'engineering solution' to the problem. The blood supply to the brain first passes through vascular beds in the nose (part of the reason dogs have long noses compared to other carnivores) The act of breathing or panting passes extra air over these beds, cooling hot blood from the body core. Thus, the body core temperature can rise 5 degrees or more above normal, and the brain stays at body temperature. I would imagine the lungs are larger then required for efficient heat exchange as well as efficient gas exchange.

On the serotonin thing: very interesting. I wonder if a future therapy for sleep apneia would be a device that releases microscopic quantities of serotonin into the aforementioned ganglia. The other interesting thing is the stimulation of serotonin production by tryptophan, This is a common amino acid, found in large amounts in many meats. Maybe this is part of the reason I feel better overall after a good, heavy feed of meat.

[DreamStalker]

I read a book called "Potatoes, Not Prozac" a few months ago. The plan is intended to reduce stress and cravings for carbohydrates, or any other addicitve issues a person may have.

The idea was to eat a small potatoe (starch) with the skin (l-tryptophan) at night right before going to sleep. The starch creates an insulin spike which then allows the l-tryptophan to cross the blood/brain barrier. The insulin supposedly attaches onto larger amino acid molecules and carries them off to muscle and other tissues leaving the l-tryptophan with better access to the brain. The l-tryptophan once across the blood/brain barrier then helps create serotonin during sleep.

I never did try the plan but maybe I'll have to run an experiemnt this summer.

[Marietjie]

The idea was to eat a small potatoe (starch) with the skin (l-tryptophan) at night right before going to sleep

........ ?


DreamStalker, 1 x raw or boiled potatoe ?

[DreamStalker]

I don't see how anyone could eat raw ones ... I think the book said cooked -- boiled or baked should not matter.

[timbalionguy]

I read a book called "Potatoes, Not Prozac" a few months ago. The plan is intended to reduce stress and cravings for carbohydrates, or any other addicitve issues a person may have.

The idea was to eat a small potatoe (starch) with the skin (l-tryptophan) at night right before going to sleep. The starch creates an insulin spike which then allows the l-tryptophan to cross the blood/brain barrier. The insulin supposedly attaches onto larger amino acid molecules and carries them off to muscle and other tissues leaving the l-tryptophan with better access to the brain. The l-tryptophan once across the blood/brain barrier then helps create serotonin during sleep.

I never did try the plan but maybe I'll have to run an experiemnt this summer.

That is one of the more bizarre theories I have hard in a while!!

[BlueSky72]

It's not that bizarre, to me anyway. Haven't we known for years that most of the goodness of potatoes is just under the skin? They're high GI, so that accounts for the insulin spike. Personally, I prefer to adjust my brain chemistry with pharmaceuticals for assured potency, but there is a lot to be said for eating a diet rich in unprocessed/low processed veges, fruit, nuts and grains.

Regarding carbohydrate cravings, I think there are strong gender differences here. I'm not sure about men, but many women crave carbs according to the menstrual cycle and other hormone shifts. More women also have Atypical Depression, a subset of the depressive disorders, and carb cravings are one of the diagnostic criteria. Another criterion is hypersomnolence or, increased sleep. I often wonder how many people have AD and no-one ever diagnoses it.

[DreamStalker]

I read a book called "Potatoes, Not Prozac" a few months ago. The plan is intended to reduce stress and cravings for carbohydrates, or any other addicitve issues a person may have.

The idea was to eat a small potatoe (starch) with the skin (l-tryptophan) at night right before going to sleep. The starch creates an insulin spike which then allows the l-tryptophan to cross the blood/brain barrier. The insulin supposedly attaches onto larger amino acid molecules and carries them off to muscle and other tissues leaving the l-tryptophan with better access to the brain. The l-tryptophan once across the blood/brain barrier then helps create serotonin during sleep.

I never did try the plan but maybe I'll have to run an experiemnt this summer.

That is one of the more bizarre theories I have hard in a while!!

Well the author has a web site if you really want to know just how bizarre her theory is ...

http://www.radiantrecovery.com/

Goto the sugar sensitivity and Resources FAQ menus.

[Marietjie]

I don't see how anyone could eat raw ones

.... I know some people eat raw potatoes to help with high blood pressure !

[DreamStalker]

I don't see how anyone could eat raw ones

.... I know some people eat raw potatoes to help with high blood pressure !

I was unaware of that particular use of raw potatoes. Learn something new on this forum everyday.

I do recall however as a teen that raw potatoes were used for makeshift explosives by stuffing a raw potatoe into the muffler of a car.