OT: OBAMA SOAKS THE RICH: CHURCHES, DAY CARE, HOMELESS SHELT

[kteague]

Thimarine - thank you for your valuable perspective. Well said.
Kathy

[OldLincoln]

Chuckle.... "Are you better off today than a year ago?" Snicker...

[roster]

........ Why all the blaming, name calling and negativity? .................

Please point out where this is in the original post. This is just about whether the deductibility for charitable giving should remain the same or be reduced. I don't mind you venturing off in other directions (serpentine as Kathy called it), but you seem to be inferring something about previous posts that I don't see.

................ And, if you are giving solely for the tax deduction rather than from the goodness of your heart and a desire to help others, then keep your money. .........

I will differ with both halves of this statement. No one gives just for a tax deduction. For 2008, the highest marginal tax rate was 35% (Federal). So if you decided to give $10,000 to a charity, you could be eligible for a $3,500 tax reduction. No one who is thinking straight will pay $10,000 solely for a $3,500 tax reduction.

................rather than from the goodness of your heart and a desire to help others, then keep your money. .........

I have done a goodly amount of volunteer fund raising for a few charities over the years. This is hard work and most charities struggle to consistently maintain the funding they need. We accept, want, and cherish a lot of donations that were given for reasons other than "the goodness of the heart or a desire to help others."

I called on businesses to donate and always tried to deal only with the Presidents of the companies. Plenty of them donated money for their own ego; or because their competition was doing it; or because they wanted the company to look good in the community; or because they wanted to get me out of their hair; or because it was a key customer's favorite charity; or because we would invite them to party at our fund raising galas; or who knows what other reasons.

My charities appreciated all of the donations and we even targeted people we knew who gave for some of these reasons. The important thing was the money was going to our good cause. Anyway, who were we to judge the intentions of the people making donations. Our idealism should not get in the way of providing good things for the less fortunate we are trying to help.

Thanks for breaking your rule and giving us some input,

[Liam1965]

Wow.

Obama isn't perfect, but where we are right now is very much the result of 8 years of George Bush, and recall that our two choices in this election were Obama and 4-8 more years of essentially the same policies Bush had.

I'll take Obama.

I really don't like the continued deficit spending, but I've heard enough expert economists tell me that spending all this money to stimulate the economy is really the best way to keep us from falling into another great depression, and with the number of friends and family members who have lost their jobs in the last six months, that's a pretty important goal.

I am a strong proponent of moving back towards spending only what we take in, and hope that once the stimulus is no longer needed, spending will be reigned in.

But right now, I'm far more worried about our standing in the world, and our complete disregard for the rule of law or any of our core philosophies as a nation in the last 8 years than I am about the country moving a little bit further to the left.

Oh, and for those who continue to yell that Obama is the most liberal President ever, I'll remind you that tax rates aren't rising to anything like record levels. Yes, they're going up a little bit for a few people, but when someone takes that and starts pointing to it as proof that we're suddenly in a socialist or communist nation, remind them that at one point in the 50s, the top tax rate was 92%, according to taxpolicycenter.org! (See chart here: http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts ... ?Docid=213 ).

Heck, for 6 of Reagan's 8 years, it was 50% and that was after he cut it down from 70%.

The top tax rate for 2009 is 35%. I believe Obama favors raising it back to the Clinton era 39.6%.

Just keep those numbers in mind, as people like Dick Morris and others try to tell you Obama is the worst "tax the rich" President we've ever had and the like.

And remember how nice it was before W. to not have to worry that the President believed he had the power to simply ignore the Constitution when it suited his purposes.

Liam, not being silly. Not even a little bit.

[kteague]

Rooster,
A whole lot has been said since your original post that has evoked responses as is the nature of this venue for discussion. I think it's pretty clear that not every comment is directed to your original post, yet you repeatedly correct others of us about misreading your original post, but that doesn't look like what's happening to me.

OldLincoln - Am I better off now than I was a year ago? Bout the same financially for 3 years now, since I went from one of the haves to one of the have nots. In the big picture it's barely a blip on the radar of my life. Taken too many roller coaster rides to panic about this one.

[thimarine]

Like I said, everyone is entitled to his or her own opinion. And, it is my rule to break on my own terms. I seldom get into these kinds of discussions. You are certainly entitled to characterize what I said however you want. Makes no difference to me. I believe what I believe and I know what I know. I'm not trying to change anyone's mind. I'm happy people are thinking and discussing. That's why I'm proud of America and proud to be an American. So, if you think I've tried to twist anything you've said, I apologize for that, but certainly not for the way I feel and what I believe. And, in answer to your question to someone else, I am much better off this year than last. This president actually cares about veterans and I get to see the pain specialist more than once a year now. Services to veterans were cut during the Bush years. I am happier for the younger vets and active duty personnel who will see an increase in services and benefits. My son is regular Army in his 17th year. He, and the other younger service people, will get better treatment. So, I guess that's sort of charity at work isn't it? Americans taking care of other Americans. Fewer homeless vets means less demand on charity. It all sort of comes together. Anyway, I'm done. I'm not here to debate and I'm not here to pick a fight. Your beliefs and opinions are as valid as anyone else's and entitled to respect and consideration.

Cheers,

Dennis R. Majewski
USMC 72-79

[roster]

......... So, if you think I've tried to twist anything you've said, I apologize for that, but certainly not for the way I feel and what I believe. ......

Dennis,

People take these kinds of discussions (debates) differently. I have been doing informal debating since we boys used to sit around in the dorms all night long after we had taken our dates home. We debated everything under the sun especially sports, girls, politics, rock bands, social issues, economics, professors, religion and philosopy. Just yesterday afternoon, waiting for the ball game to start, (Go Heels!) three of us discussed this thread and quickly devolved into an argument about whether we should be arguing and how we should be arguing (never got back to the tax issue ).

We were always debating with friends because, let's face it, our enemies thought we sucked and they did not want to hang around with us. So even in the loudest most vitriolic arguments (debates?) no one ever expected to receive an apology and no one ever expected to give one. I don't remember any friends being lost over this.

I can't speak for others here, but I do not see anything you said that requires an apology and even if I did I would not expect one from you.

Have a good week,

[DreamStalker]

Chuckle.... "Are you better off today than a year ago?" Snicker...

I am ...yes, significantly better. I have already begun to pay a little extra towards my monthly debt so that creditors can start lending more money to those in need (dream on GM and Chrysler). I no longer have to worry about being renditioned in the middle of the night to Gitmo for practicing my first amendment right. I pay half what I was paying for fuel last year to commute to work. I even got a 6% merit raise last month. I have lost significant amounts of body fat since last year and I seem to be reversing my pre-diabetic condition. It has even started raining again here in our drought-stricken area and LaNina is rapidly weakening indicating more normal climate conditions for this summer. Yep ... I am better so far this year than last.

........ Why all the blaming, name calling and negativity? .................

Please point out where this is in the original post. This is just about whether the deductibility for charitable giving should remain the same or be reduced. I don't mind you venturing off in other directions (serpentine as Kathy called it), but you seem to be inferring something about previous posts that I don't see.

I believe it was the Link who began the lemming name calling and I furthered it and apologize for that. Also the title of your thread is misleading and may be offensive to some (though not me).

................ And, if you are giving solely for the tax deduction rather than from the goodness of your heart and a desire to help others, then keep your money. .........

I will differ with both halves of this statement. No one gives just for a tax deduction. For 2008, the highest marginal tax rate was 35% (Federal). So if you decided to give $10,000 to a charity, you could be eligible for a $3,500 tax reduction. No one who is thinking straight will pay $10,000 solely for a $3,500 tax reduction.

Actually you may not differ ... read your statement below. I think there are some who donate not to their church, day care, or homeless shelter ... but instead to their country club or university alumni in order to get additional benefits and perks for their "heart felt" giving.

................rather than from the goodness of your heart and a desire to help others, then keep your money. .........

I have done a goodly amount of volunteer fund raising for a few charities over the years. This is hard work and most charities struggle to consistently maintain the funding they need. We accept, want, and cherish a lot of donations that were given for reasons other than "the goodness of the heart or a desire to help others."

I called on businesses to donate and always tried to deal only with the Presidents of the companies. Plenty of them donated money for their own ego; or because their competition was doing it; or because they wanted the company to look good in the community; or because they wanted to get me out of their hair; or because it was a key customer's favorite charity; or because we would invite them to party at our fund raising galas; or who knows what other reasons.

My charities appreciated all of the donations and we even targeted people we knew who gave for some of these reasons. The important thing was the money was going to our good cause. Anyway, who were we to judge the intentions of the people making donations. Our idealism should not get in the way of providing good things for the less fortunate we are trying to help.

Thanks for breaking your rule and giving us some input,

Not all people are as good natured and charitable as you Rooster (no jest here, you are indeed a good man) ... but as you point out yourself, some do for "who knows what other reasons" and not of the goodness of their heart.

[Hermit]

The only "change" I see is the "change" you're gonna have left in the bottom of your pocket at the end of day. I see no good from government running businesses when they themselves never did.And they ( the govnernment) run off about abusing pay and benefits they should look in the mirror.It used to be they work for us -We The People- now We The People work for them.The marxist regime that is in now handing out left and right from the public coffers so future generations can line up to pay this public handout at the troff for many years to come. By the time they get don taxing we'll all have to work an extra 10 years!I for one think the public troff should have a cover put on it and welded shut. I'm old enough to know right from wrong and don't need big brother telling me when to get up- go to work- eat sleep- who I can talk to - or what ever.what happened to common sense? Respect? don't do to others that they wouldn't want done to them.??Politicians and lawyers see thing though very different glasses. When they ( the government) are done lining there pockets some how they forget us.How is it they( the government ) has better benefits than Joe the plumber or Sue the office worker?The change hasn't even begun. sooner I hope than later people will wake up and see the light.The government needs to read the Constitution if they're not sure what they're supposed to be doing. government doesn't belong in banking or jet planes or cars....People don't have any money left to give by the time the government is getting done taxing the taxes!!!!!!
Hermit
the great thing is this I served my time to be able to defend the freedoms to be able to say this... the bad thing is they are hammering them away!!!!!!!

[LinkC]

I believe it was the Link who began the lemming name calling

If you refer to me, not guilty! I called no one a "lemming" nor any other name. I specifically said I wanted future generations *NOT* to be lemmings. If you chose to take it personally, well, who am I to argue with your own self-assessment?

Of course, you are free to "believe" whatever you want. Even your professed belief that speciation thru evolution is science and not faith.

[Dpursi]

I don't believe the reduction in the write off will affect the charitable giving in any meaninful way. I know for myself the tax deduction is an after thought only important as we approach April 15th and has little to due with what I do the rest of the year. I do fear that this massive increase in spending will, as it did under Jimmy Carter, lead to an inevitable spike in inflation. It appears to me that just looking at the numbers and history we should all expect a dollar in 2013 to be worth about 64 cents in 2009 dollars. This will likely have a really bad effect on not only charities but all of us. This unseen tax is much harsher on lower incomes than on higher ones. Hold on this may get bumpy.

[thimarine]

Rooster,

Just had time to read your post. I appreciate your courtesy. I am always happy to see people engaged in the system. It's what makes this country great. Also good to hear someone still has a team in the tournament. It's going to be a long time before my Hoosiers see the tournament.

I also appreciate the "thanks" I have received on this forum. I have to admit it feels good.


DRM

[Debjax]

, and recall that our two choices in this election were

Actually, I will disagree, at least with respect to the financial meltdown.....I posted some links a few days ago, I would encourage those who believe this meltdown is the result of Bush policies....when in fact, he tried to warn of this very situation a number of years ago, in 2002. Barney Franks and
congress pretty much told him not to worry, things were fine. The link below is a video showing a timeline of public telecasts and other recordings showing where Bush, his administration and Senator McCain tried to warn of the inevitable consequence of the Fannie and Freddie "creative financing" models.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMnSp4qEXNM&NR=1

This current crisis was brought about in large part because of the sub-prime mortgage meltdown, where institutions such as AIG and others, through creative financing practices with Freddie and Fannie encouraged and pushed by Obama (yes, he was part of this) and other Democrats to get people who otherwise could not afford a mortgage into home ownership, leaving them with more bad debt than they could hold and stay solvent. If you doubt this, watch the videos at the links below, which are from C-SPAN during some of these debates, including the CEO of Fannie Mae explaining their connection with Democrats in general and specifically Barack Obama and the Congressional Black Caucus. The verbage of those who posted these may be strong, but the actual videos speak for themselves, for those who will watch.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usvG-s_Ssb0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivmL-lXNy64

If you want to blame Bush, fine. But get the entire story, because the fault lies with the "golden boy" also.

[Debjax]

I don't believe the reduction in the write off will affect the charitable giving in any meaninful way. I know for myself the tax deduction is an after thought only important as we approach April 15th and has little to due with what I do the rest of the year.

Oh, I don't thnk people will conciously reduce their charitable giving because they will get less of a deduction. It will be because their actual tax liability will be that much greater that money that might normally go to charities will instead have to be used to pay taxes, reducing the amount available to give.

[Debjax]

This president actually cares about veterans and I get to see the pain specialist more than once a year now.

Other than the fact that he tried to move our service connected disabilities (including combat injuries) to be the responsibility of our private insurance....fortunately that got shot down when it went public...but even after meetings with a number of veteran's organizations, it wasn't until the press got it and pretty much lambasted him that it was finally "taken off the table." He was shocked that people were upset....