Ultra Mirage vs Quattro - one night's observation

[elader]

So I have been using my quattro for about three months and tried the UM FF mask last night (obtained in a swap from a fellow cpaptalk member). It seems a little less adjustable - the forehead piece cant get taller and shorter. but not a biggie. The length of the mask is smaller than the quattro - so the distance from top to bottom of the seal is more compact. The quattro lets me mouth breath more easily. The Mirage keeps my mouth closed by applying more pressure between my chin and lower lip. The seal feels stiffer. Might be because my quattro has been used for several months. I did not find it as comfortable as the quattro.

Set up was easy, the vent is pretty quiet, I did wake a couple of times, but as my nose was not stuffy last night, I slept pretty well. Looking at the data form the night, the leak curve was pretty flat, flatter than my usual Quattro line. But it was only one night. My AHI was really low )AI at 1, total AHI at 2.5) - I cant actually recall my AI or HI ever being that low.... hmn.... I think it merits another couple of nights to see if it's real or not.

One more thing I am going to keep an eye on. I, like others, sometimes feel like there is a CO2 buildup in the quattro - just a feeling. I didn't notice that with the mirage. It may actually be a reflection of a lower HI, you know, that "i need a deep cleaning breathe feeling' when you have been shallow breathing.

[summmersoff]

Thats the mask i use and its the only one i have used. worked for me from the get go

[luke]

That CO2 build-up you mentioned makes me want to undo my teflon fix for the elbow joint and just let it leak more.
Or: just apply ONE layer of the teflon tape to eliminate squeaking (if indeed it does squeak).



Bill

[Wulfman]

......hmn.... I think it merits another couple of nights to see if it's real or not.

< grin >

Den

[spitintheocean]

Whether or not you're shallow breathing, wouldn't the continuous pressure within the mask which should equal your pressure setting, be sufficient to immediately flush any expiration since there is a vent expressly for that purpose?

Paul

[Sleepy Boy]

Elader: Where does the co2 build up at? I just got the Quattro a month or so ago, and really like it. don't understand the co2 thing?? Thanks, Larry..

[Catnap]

This pretty much mirrors my experience with the Quattro vs. the Ultra Mirage. The Quattro is roomier and more adjustable, but is much leakier than my UM. I like the fit and feeling of the Quattro better, but I seem to get better quality sleep (i.e., better PAP results) with the UM. I prefer the vertical exhaust pattern of the Quattro to the horizontal one of the UM; the air from the UM seems to readily deflect off surrounding objects (pillow, hose, headboard) and cause a draft into my face. I really wish the UM were as roomy as the Quattro around the mouth/chin, too. The UM seems to exert a lot more pressure on my teeth and jaw. And yes, I have had that same "too much CO2" experience with the Quattro, especially if I'm ramping up to full pressure and maybe a little breathless when I put the mask on (have just bounded up the stairs and leapt into bed or something like that).

[tattooyu]

Maybe it has a lot to do with face and mouth/chin shape. I am going to get a FF mask as a backup (for colds and such) when my three months comes up with my insurance. I will be going in for a fitting (with pillow, on the floor!) to see which one I like better. I'll let you guys know.

Catnap, just curious, what is your starting ramp pressure?

[elader]

Elader: Where does the co2 build up at? I just got the Quattro a month or so ago, and really like it. don't understand the co2 thing?? Thanks, Larry..

yeah about the whole CO2 thing. I confess to not knowing (and I am both a scientist and a scuba diver so I know about this stuff in general) - Obviously the dead space in the hose - your breath going back and forth in the hose - you would htink would be a bigger problem. So, for now, all I can say is I just have this feeling...

[elader]

This pretty much mirrors my experience with the Quattro vs. the Ultra Mirage. The Quattro is roomier and more adjustable, but is much leakier than my UM. I like the fit and feeling of the Quattro better, but I seem to get better quality sleep (i.e., better PAP results) with the UM. I prefer the vertical exhaust pattern of the Quattro to the horizontal one of the UM; the air from the UM seems to readily deflect off surrounding objects (pillow, hose, headboard) and cause a draft into my face. I really wish the UM were as roomy as the Quattro around the mouth/chin, too. The UM seems to exert a lot more pressure on my teeth and jaw. And yes, I have had that same "too much CO2" experience with the Quattro, especially if I'm ramping up to full pressure and maybe a little breathless when I put the mask on (have just bounded up the stairs and leapt into bed or something like that).

I hear me in you - breathless is a good term for it. And I don't ramp -just right to 10cM. Yup, less roomy, yup, more pressure on my teeth and jaw. I'll give the mask a week and check out the data and how I feel.

[Catnap]

Tattoo, I'm not sure what my starting pressure is. I will have to check to see if that info is available on my (not-very-data-capable) machine. My final pressure is 13 cm H2O and the ramp time is 20 minutes, if that helps at all.

[robertmarilyn]

....And yes, I have had that same "too much CO2" experience with the Quattro, especially if I'm ramping up to full pressure and maybe a little breathless when I put the mask on (have just bounded up the stairs and leapt into bed or something like that).

You do realize that a sleep therapist would tell you that bounding up the stairs and leaping into bed it NOT good "sleep hygiene". Really, it put a funny picture in my mind...sounds like you must be feeling good about life and sleeping.

[ClayL]

Snip
yeah about the whole CO2 thing. I confess to not knowing (and I am both a scientist and a scuba diver so I know about this stuff in general) - Obviously the dead space in the hose - your breath going back and forth in the hose - you would think would be a bigger problem. So, for now, all I can say is I just have this feeling...

Also a scuba diver here but not a scientist - a retired electrical engineer instead.

When you breathe out the air doesn't go in the hose but instead out through two holes in the elbow on the mask where the hose connects. A small flap that is normally held open by the positive air pressure from the hose closes when you breathe out and causes the expelled air to exit through the holes. Air in the mask is also flushed our through the intentional leak holes by the air coming from the hose.
I don't see how CO2 could build up in any appreciable amount.
The flap also acts as an anti suffocation device if the machine stops supplying air.

As a side note I think CPAP was much easier for me to get used to because of all the hours I have spent underwater breathing through the regulator with a small amount of positive air pressure.

[Wulfman]

yeah about the whole CO2 thing. I confess to not knowing (and I am both a scientist and a scuba diver so I know about this stuff in general) - Obviously the dead space in the hose - your breath going back and forth in the hose - you would htink would be a bigger problem. So, for now, all I can say is I just have this feeling...

Remember when we had this discussion back in February?

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=38408


Den

[elader]

yeah about the whole CO2 thing. I confess to not knowing (and I am both a scientist and a scuba diver so I know about this stuff in general) - Obviously the dead space in the hose - your breath going back and forth in the hose - you would htink would be a bigger problem. So, for now, all I can say is I just have this feeling...

Remember when we had this discussion back in February?

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=38408


Den

yup I do remember. i gave up on the Mirage after a few nights. It really was too short for my face and was uncomfortable. Back to the Quattro.... and that higher HI.