Sleeping on the plane?

[Guest]

I stand corrected, you may not HAVE to book with a live agent, however everyone may not be as comfortable with using seatguru so they may have to call IF they want a seat with power.


I'm not even going to touch the regulations that you mentioned, they have been discussed on many other threads and been shot so full of holes they look like swiss cheese. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying that we shouldn't have the right to carry our CPAP's onbaord and use them if we need too. We as PAP users need to band together and lobby the FAA to specifically name PAP machines in the regulations.

[boston]

Even if you find the seat you want at seat guru.com, theres always the chance they can switch the aircraft, flight too full or not full enough, plane breaks down, etc. so when you get to your gate, ask the agent if its still the same plane, and explain you need the power outlet(if you dont have a battery).

[Arthurs]

Guest, I don't understand your point, but based on my experience, in seat power is very low on the totem pole in terms of airline maintenance priorities and/or even provision with the current realities of air travel here in North America. If you can get yourself on a new A380, that might be a different story! Used to be 5-10 years ago that if I booked international first or business class, chances were very good I'd have in-seat power for my laptop. Now, it's an absolute crap shoot if the plug works at all! That's why I say, don't even count on it, use a battery for your CPAP on the plane! If your CPAP draws more than 80 watts, you can bet that the breaker will pop on your outlet, my MacBook Pro is borderline 85 watts, and I have been challenged to get it working in some airplane configurations. I guess the people who designed/installed these outlets never anticipated how much future devices/laptops might draw in terms of current.

There are no holes in the current regulations, in fact it's quite clear CPAP use is allowed on airplanes, even though it's not specifically named "CPAP". Unfortunately staff and crew are not sufficiently trained in these regulations, they have plenty of other things to worry about. Heck, some TSA staffers have no clue what the rules are! Persistence in key here. Calling it a "medical device" or a ventilator/respirator instead of a CPAP machine helps communicate with them in a language they understand.

[Dragon Lady]

Welcome to Aussie if you do come!

Thank you, grandmma! It will actually be in 2010, so I have time to save some pennies by then.

Love your avatar! It gave me a giggle.

[grandmma]

tks. Not very inventive, would love one like babette's, but not that good at it!

[Guest]

Here are the holes in those regulations you quoted regarding CPAP equipment.

1. A CPAP/BiLevel machine IS NOT a Ventilator/Respirator, no matter how hard you argue, they are not.
A medical ventilator may be defined as an automatic machine designed to mechanically move breatheable air into and out of the lungs, to provide the mechanism of breathing for a patient who is physically unable to breathe, or breathing insufficiently.

2. Sleep Apnea IS NOT defined as a disability, so you don’t LEGALLY fall into the second category either. Some people feel that it is and in some cases I would agree, however, you won’t find it listed as a disability. Atleast not the last time I checked anyway.

As it stands right now, there is nothing LEGALLY forcing airlines to allow you to use your PAP machine inflight. I’m just pointing out the facts, not saying I agree with them, and that changes shouldn’t be made to the regulations to clarify things.

As far as the power at you seat goes, I simply stated that some people have reported that the some airlines had the restriction that they use the power supply at their seat if they wanted to use their PAP machine during flight. Once again, there is nothing preventing the airlines from making this restriction on your PAP during flight in the current regulation. I agree with you, if you have the choice, always use a battery (no matter what kindof equipment you are using) during flight.

[Bearded_One]

I can run my autoM off of my CPAP battery while it is in the case. It would be interesting if a stew were to wake me up while I was wearing my CPAP. Unless they knew what it was, they would have no idea that it was even battery powered. If they knew what it was, I doubt that they would say anything. I have seem some really crazy pillows, humidifiers, face masks; all sorts of things. The only problem would be if they thought that it used bottled oxygen.

[Arthurs]

Here are the holes in those regulations you quoted regarding CPAP equipment.

1. A CPAP/BiLevel machine IS NOT a Ventilator/Respirator, no matter how hard you argue, they are not.
A medical ventilator may be defined as an automatic machine designed to mechanically move breatheable air into and out of the lungs, to provide the mechanism of breathing for a patient who is physically unable to breathe, or breathing insufficiently.

2. Sleep Apnea IS NOT defined as a disability, so you don’t LEGALLY fall into the second category either. Some people feel that it is and in some cases I would agree, however, you won’t find it listed as a disability. Atleast not the last time I checked anyway.

As it stands right now, there is nothing LEGALLY forcing airlines to allow you to use your PAP machine inflight. I’m just pointing out the facts, not saying I agree with them, and that changes shouldn’t be made to the regulations to clarify things.

As far as the power at you seat goes, I simply stated that some people have reported that the some airlines had the restriction that they use the power supply at their seat if they wanted to use their PAP machine during flight. Once again, there is nothing preventing the airlines from making this restriction on your PAP during flight in the current regulation. I agree with you, if you have the choice, always use a battery (no matter what kindof equipment you are using) during flight.

Hmmm, from what you described, it seems that a respirator is pretty close to what a CPAP machine does, but I'll agree with you that they are different, but do you really think a flight attendant or gate agent would know or care about the difference? Semantics!

You should read the entire DOT regulations to understand better how they define "disability." While I may not think that because I have UARS I have a disability, for the sake of the regulations, their definition of disability can encompass those worse off than me who simply cannot sleep without a CPAP machine. You seem to be hung up on the letter of the law, good luck in getting the government to change the wording to suit your needs and everyone else's, heck frequent travelers are still waiting for a decent set of regulations protecting them with the usual screw ups Airlines have been known for these past few years! Being prepared to present your case is the best way to look out for your own well being in the meantime, I would think that reasoned well, the *intent* of the regulation will prevail, not the "holes" you claim are there. In the end, the ultimate decision maker here is the captain of your flight. When those cabin doors close, he's the ultimate authority on what can and cannot be done on the plane. Period.

In all the years of flying, I have yet to hear of any restrictions on using on-board power for PAP machines. Sorry, on most carriers power in coach class is few and far between. Care to share with us some details instead of hearsay?

[Dragon Lady]

I have been reading your posts with interest.

All I can think of at this point is if I can't figure out what to do will be to go ahead and nap (I always have had trouble sleeping on a plane, anyway) and if I snore too loudly, they'll gladly put me somewhere so I could plug in my CPAP!

[billbolton]

In all the years of flying, I have yet to hear of any restrictions on using on-board power for PAP machines.

Well, three instances that I am well aware of in the case of international travel (which is the specific topic here).....

• QANTAS will only let you use on board power if your CPAP machine is on an approved list (which fortunately does cover a lot of common CPAP units).
  
  Emirates will not let you use a CPAP in flight at all, even on battery power.
  
  Singapore Airlines will not let you use a CPAP machine on seat power.

Cheers,

Bill

[Guest]

Sorry, on most carriers power in coach class is few and far between. Care to share with us some details instead of hearsay?


Arthurs,

For starters I never claimed that there were carriers who had power in coach class. This whole flying with cpap/using cpap on a plane issue has been discussed here many times. The same regulations are quoted every time and are shot down. Legally that regulation doesn't apply to cpap's, IF you can buffalo the carrier into believing it does, that's on them. However, don't think you are going to change a carriers policy about cpap use by quoting these same regulations, it's been tried and has not worked.

Here are just a few of the threads that where this has been discussed, i'm sure you can find you details in there.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=35465&p=305042&hili ... ns#p305042

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=32370&st=0&sk=t&sd= ... egulations

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=20109&st=0&sk=t&sd= ... egulations

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=17706&st=0&sk=t&sd= ... egulations

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=18376&p=157548&hili ... ns#p157548


And YES I have read the complete regulation, as well as the regulations for rail and ocean travel. Personally I don't see anywhere in the regulation where it supports the theory that OSA is a disability.