Hurrah!! The Bail Out Defeated 228 to 205

[Slinky]

Now! MAYBE those idiots in Washington will give us full information on just what the bail out REALLY DOES contain so we, those w/the most to lose, the average American, can make an intelligent decision on just how acceptable it is or isn't and what changes NEED to be made to make it acceptable!

There may be hope for this country and its citizens yet!!!

[Leonbergergirl]

But it was many Repubs. who voted against it. Why don't Democrats vote for us rather than
Wall Street fatcats?????

That idea of giving us the almost $1 trillion is ideal; we would pay off our debts and spend
the money in this country, but Democrats seem to love the idea of shoveling money toward
the greasy greedy monolithic rich class. ( I really get annoyed when the Repugs co-opt our
values.)LOL
Leonbergergirl

[Reddwarf]

I would have agreed with you yesterday. But I understand that Warren Buffet stated that if the bail out fails we are headed for a bad time. If Warren Buffet thinks that then I'm on board with him. The market today certainly reacted badly. It lost almost 800 points and is down 30% over the last 11 months.

I don't know about you but my retirement fund and college funds for the kids has lost a lot!

[Slinky]

We are headed for a rough time w/or w/o the bailout. All that "hot air" inflated value has to be accounted for and dealt with. This 7% drop is NOTHING compared to the 22% drop back in October of what was it, 1987?? We lived thru it, the market survived (and w/o a government bailout). I was still working then and was able to put a few bucks in the market whilst the market was really down. If I were still working I'd try to put some in the market now whilst it is down. Nothing exotic - I'd be looking at what is NEEDED regardless of the economy - electric power, etc.

[DreamStalker]

What Slinky said

[marshaeb]

Yeah, what Slinky said. Definitely.

But Slinky, if you really believe that what you put in your first post would actually happen, I think you and Den should get together on buying a plot in his Badlands Oceanfront Estates.

Marsha

[Slinky]

Hey, if these darn politicians are hell bent on doing something then I'm for the Swedish plan! I want my pound of flesh. I want those financial "wizards', CEOs, money managment brokers, etc. to BLEED!

[Bert_Mathews]

Hey, if these darn politicians are hell bent on doing something then I'm for the Swedish plan! I want my pound of flesh. I want those financial "wizards', CEOs, money managment brokers, etc. to BLEED!

I AGREE -but- we both know that's "NOT GOING TO HAPPEN."

If we are going to BLOW that LARGE amount of $$$$$$ give "IT" to EVERYBODY let them let them pay off the house - school loan - collage fund - WHAT EVER!

The sun did come up this morning and we didn't get the sky pushed up our A$$ as promised
-- JUST come up with a NEW PLAN --- NOT A BAILOUT! and not all the Politicos BS / lying about the FACTS.......


BERT

[Country4ever]

I know there are alot of unscrupulous, greedy people out there who have had a big hand in this. But to be honest with you, I think the majority of Americans have come to want too much, and consume too much. It just seems that capitalism has gone too far. There is so much more to living a rich life, than money and possessions. I just wish some official somewhere would talk about this aspect of things. We all act so danged entitled all the time, to everything......no matter what the cost to the planet. I may regret saying this, when I find all our retirement monies gone, but I'm hoping this is a slap in the face that we all need, to live a different kind of life. I'm rather pessimistic about that though. There are just too many people who have grown up on expecting it all, all the time.
There are alot of things that America should be proud of, but there are other things that shame me. And what scares me is that many other countries are trying to be just like us. Somewhere along the line, we got lost.

[Bert_Mathews]

I know there are alot of unscrupulous, greedy people out there who have had a big hand in this. But to be honest with you, I think the majority of Americans have come to want too much, and consume too much. It just seems that capitalism has gone too far. There is so much more to living a rich life, than money and possessions. I just wish some official somewhere would talk about this aspect of things. We all act so danged entitled all the time, to everything......no matter what the cost to the planet. I may regret saying this, when I find all our retirement monies gone, but I'm hoping this is a slap in the face that we all need, to live a different kind of life. I'm rather pessimistic about that though. There are just too many people who have grown up on expecting it all, all the time.
There are alot of things that America should be proud of, but there are other things that shame me. And what scares me is that many other countries are trying to be just like us. Somewhere along the line, we got lost.

I think your right on!
The SLAP is something China - Russia - Vietnam and we should live through.....
The price on a house that cost 25K to build selling for 120K is just out of hand --- I'm sure my retirement has dropped _BUT_ I's rather go back to work instead of my grandson having to pay the debts I'm leaving ...
He might have a grandkid and I hope he looks out for their future......NOT just DUMP ON THEM "like we are planing to due!"

BERT

[tomjax]

I will forever remember N Pelosi(?) coming out with Barney Frank and praising him for his integrity and briliance along with Dodd before attakcing the repubs.
What class!!!.

These people have their fingerprints all over the big mess and they have the audacity to blame it on the republicans.

I am very happy enough people had the courage to reject the vote for socialism.
Still not out of the woods, but I hope things get better.
I am down about 15K in the past week, so i hope it turns around.

And why do those wh refer to BHO as a community organizer say ACORN lawyer?
ACORN has a very big role in the fiasco, but comes out semlling like a rose and FRANK wants to gie them MORE money.

GAFL, Barney F Frank

[Claire]

I'm with Country4fever. We live like no one in human history has ever been able to live, and we do it by using, squandering, and depleting more than our share of resources. Yet changing this requires sacrifices no one really wants to make. I'm very pessimistic. And, I've reached the point where I can't stand what has happened to politics. Everything is a sound-bite with the result that everyone is stereotyped and every issue's complexity diminished. I don't know who I'll offend here but the Republican ticket is absolutely ludicrous. How did it get to this? What's happened to our judgement. Sigh.

[Tallen234]

I am reluctant to argue politics on this forum, but.....

This mess is very complicated for a variety of reasons, but the fact remains that there is a substantial liquidity problem in the market. Regular businesses can't get credit and this will affect a host of people. For example, Sonic (the fast food place) uses GE Capital as their lender to help their starting fanchisees. GE Capital has stated that it has stopped its loans on further Sonic franchisees, thereby halting new businesses, depriving contractors of business, new employment opportunities, etc.

A lot of the blame rests with Fannie and Freddie Mac who "backed" loans to people with less than desirable credit, especially at very attractive rates (subprime). Because of this federal support, Fannie and Freddie ignored typical risk (and reasonable lending practices) and loaned all kinds of money to very risky people. People, who couldn't afford a particular house, took out a 100% financing loan with the expectation that the market would go up and they would be able to refinance, etc. When the housing market didn't go up, these homeowners started to default and become delinquent on their mortgages. Now, in the business world, these mortgages are packaged as mortgage backed securities. Because of the problems, these securities are now "toxic" and, right now, worthless. Another one of the problems is that there is "mark to market" accounting practices that requires a company to list this asset according to what it could sell it in the market. Although there is still "value" in these securities (i.e. there are still 85-95% good loans in these packages that people are still plying and even the defaulted loans still have property as security), the government requires the company to list them as a 0 on their balance sheet. So, there is very little money left for the company to "loan" to the market and the companies are, in fact, selling off assets to raise money to help balance their ledgers.

Now, I agree that it would be nice to see the sleezy companies who didn't evaluate risk properly to "crash and burn". But, the problem is that this will hurt the majority of us who may require loans in the near future (mortgage, student loans, etc.). I have a friend who had to put something like 35% down recently on his house in order to secure a loan. I know a few people who had their savings accounts at a local bank that went under wiped out. Yes, they were insured to 100,000, but these folks had more than that "saved up" for retirement.

So, now the BIG question, what to do? The bailout was a way for the government to get involved in handling these toxic securities (that still have some intrinsic "worth") and eventually sell them to recoup the 700 billion sometime in the future. Now, there are reasonable economists who believe that the bailout is not the right path and that they should let the free market handle the situation (bankruptcies, etc.). The support for the bill was very strange, both Democrats and Republicans supported it, AARP, Citizens Against Government Waste and the U.S. Chamber of Commerce all supported it. Hardcore conservatives and very liberal democrats voted against it. Strange bedfellows, indeed.

The bailout may work to a certain extent, but nobody knows how effective it will be. There are other options to free up $$$. Raise the FDIC insurance limits on bank accounts, eliminate/freeze the "mark to market" accounting requirement (I think they are doing this), allow the FDIC to "insure" mortgages.

In short, it really is a mess. (my own 401k lost 20% recently!).

[Slinky]

The market took a considerably bigger dive in October 1987 and we and it survived W/O A BAIL OUT!

The Senate has had the audacity to schedule a vote on the bail out tomorrow, Wednesday, 01 Oct 08, in the evening.

Two politicians, I didn't catch their name, other than they were a man and a woman and if I understood correctly, one was a Republican and one a Democrat, have put forth what they are calling "The No Bail Out Act" which supposedly incorporates some of the Swedish and Finnish principals used during their problems in the '90s and some principals used by the USA for the '87 "crash".

Contact your Senators, and both Presidential candidates, as well as your Congressman and ask that they vote against this bail out again and again until it dies and is buried. Ask them to look into this No Bail Out Act and make its contents public and clear to the American people so we can determine if IT is worth supporting.

[Snoredog]

A friend sent me this today.
If you had purchased $1,000 of shares in Delta Airlines one year ago, you
will have $49.00 today.

If you had purchased $1,000 of shares in AIG one year ago, you will have
$33.00 today.

If you had purchased $1,000 of shares in Lehman Brothers one year ago, you
will have $0.00 today.

But, if you had purchased $1,000 worth of beer one year ago, drank all the
beer, then turned in the aluminum cans for recycling refund, you will have
received a $214.00.

Based on the above, the best current investment plan is to drink heavily &
recycle. It is called the 401-Keg.

A recent study found that the average American walks about 900 miles a year.

Another study found that Americans drink, on average, 22 gallons of alcohol
a year.

That means that, on average, Americans get about 41 miles to the gallon!
Makes you proud to be an American!

Check this out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cS ... stapundit/