I am about to change from a CPAP to an auto. I am considering using the REMstar /w Cflex for my home unit and the 420E for my travel unit.
I am getting an auto since I am having trouble with swallowing air and working my abs too hard breathing all nite. I have to decide which machine my insurance will provide (actually I am paying the difference from the initial unit [DME]) and plan to purchase the 2nd unit on the web.
The CFLEX unit sounds helpful but the 420E looks like the one to travel with.(I travel alot!)
I am also very interested in collecting my sleep data and realize that these two unit use 2 different software and 2 type of data storage.
Is my reasoning flawed?
Sincerely,
Susan
Does using 2 different AutoPAPS cause problems?
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Simply Sue
- Posts: 21
- Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2005 7:02 pm
- Location: Wimberley
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rested gal
- Posts: 12881
- Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2004 10:14 pm
- Location: Tennessee
Hi Sue,
I'm not a doctor, nor anything in the health profession. I think your reasoning is good. Never hurts to have two machines, in case one needed to go off for repairs.
If it were me, and I were:
A. Having to work hard breathing out against pressure...
B. Planning to get two machines, one of which was definitely going to be the 420E auto for its small size...
C. Have insurance pay for one and purchase the other online out of my pocket...
I think that instead of two autopaps, I'd get the 420E autopap and then a bi-level machine instead of an autopap with C-Flex. Go ahead and buy the cheaper of the two, the 420E autopap, online. Then let insurance rent or buy the more expensive bi-level machine from the DME.
Why a bi-level machine instead of an extra autopap with C-Flex? The exhalation relief from a bi-level can be set to one specific pressure for exhaling, as low as needed. Bi-level machines are extremely smooth and comfortable to breathe out against.
C-flex gives a comfortable drop for most people who use it, but the drop is vague or "relative" - seems to depend somewhat on how forcefully you breathe out. And the duration of the exhalation relief with C-Flex depends on how strong the end of your exhalation is.
A bi-level is definitely smoother as it will wait until you start to inhale before it brings the higher inhale pressure up. C-flex, by design, starts the higher pressure a bit prematurely, near the tail end of each exhalation, when the end of breathing out begins to become faint. Most can easily get used to that feeling of being nudged to inhale before they've actually completely finished exhaling, and ignore it.
But for some (WillSucceed, for example) C-Flex's premature move toward the higher pressure again can cause a person to breathe faster, and faster... in a futile race to try to get in sync with the change in feel and sound of what the machine is doing. A feeling of being pushed to inhale before entirely finished exhaling.
That feeling of being nudged to breathe in before I had finished exhaling was disconcerting to me the first couple of nights with C-Flex. I thought perhaps it was malfunctioning since it wasn't waiting until I started to inhale. Once I found out that slightly premature kick-in was the way C-Flex is supposed to work, I was able to ignore the "nudge" and wait (without having to think about it) until I was actually ready to inhale without being rushed. At high pressures, the nudge might be harder to ignore.
IF the pressure you've been using with your straight cpap machine doesn't cause you painful bloating (aerophagia) and IF the only reason you are thinking about C-flex is because breathing out against the straight pressure is "work", then I think you'd really love the smoother feel of breathing out with a bi-level machine. If you're at a rather high prescribed pressure, and really do require that pressure most of the night to handle your events, you could definitely get even more exhalation relief from a bi-level machine than what C-Flex does, nice as it is.
I'd get both machines (autopap and bi-level) by Puritan Bennett (small size for travel with either) so that I could use one software package (Silverlining and a download cable) with both. Only hitch in that plan is that I don't think PB's bi-level machine (the 425) can use the software at this point in time.
I've heard PB's working on that, but who knows when the software might be made compatible for the 425 bi-level. Even if it turned out that a person had to buy a new version of SL when they get it fixed to read the 425, that would still be less money than what the Encore Pro software and necessary card reader to use with the Respironics machines cost.
Not having software for the PB 425 bi-level wouldn't be a deciding factor to me, though; as overnight data is not anywhere near as important to see (imho) when using a bi-level machine as it is when using an autopap...IF I already had an autopap. By using autopap and software first, I could figure out easily what settings to use for the bi-level. (Been there, done that.)
If it were me, I think I'd go online to buy a 420E auto and the Silverlining software for it as the beginning step. You might find that machine alone suited you fine both at home and for travel. Even though its small size makes it very handy to take on trips, it's an extremely sophisticated machine that's great for full time use at home.
Since it's an autopap and would be varying the pressure according to what you actually need throughout the night, you might end up spending most of your sleep time down at lower pressures than what you're currently using with your straight cpap machine. In that case, you might find you can breathe out easily against the lower pressures and don't even need another machine for relief during exhalation.
At any rate, after using the 420E auto and looking at the data, you could decide what you wanted in your "second" machine. Perhaps you could try the second one out through a one month rental from the DME, taking your time in trying a bi-level as well as the Respironics REMstar Auto with C-Flex -- or any machine you thought you might like.
Just a thought.
I like the way you're analyzing your options, Sue! Two machines are definitely very good to have if a person can swing it.
I'm not a doctor, nor anything in the health profession. I think your reasoning is good. Never hurts to have two machines, in case one needed to go off for repairs.
If it were me, and I were:
A. Having to work hard breathing out against pressure...
B. Planning to get two machines, one of which was definitely going to be the 420E auto for its small size...
C. Have insurance pay for one and purchase the other online out of my pocket...
I think that instead of two autopaps, I'd get the 420E autopap and then a bi-level machine instead of an autopap with C-Flex. Go ahead and buy the cheaper of the two, the 420E autopap, online. Then let insurance rent or buy the more expensive bi-level machine from the DME.
Why a bi-level machine instead of an extra autopap with C-Flex? The exhalation relief from a bi-level can be set to one specific pressure for exhaling, as low as needed. Bi-level machines are extremely smooth and comfortable to breathe out against.
C-flex gives a comfortable drop for most people who use it, but the drop is vague or "relative" - seems to depend somewhat on how forcefully you breathe out. And the duration of the exhalation relief with C-Flex depends on how strong the end of your exhalation is.
A bi-level is definitely smoother as it will wait until you start to inhale before it brings the higher inhale pressure up. C-flex, by design, starts the higher pressure a bit prematurely, near the tail end of each exhalation, when the end of breathing out begins to become faint. Most can easily get used to that feeling of being nudged to inhale before they've actually completely finished exhaling, and ignore it.
But for some (WillSucceed, for example) C-Flex's premature move toward the higher pressure again can cause a person to breathe faster, and faster... in a futile race to try to get in sync with the change in feel and sound of what the machine is doing. A feeling of being pushed to inhale before entirely finished exhaling.
That feeling of being nudged to breathe in before I had finished exhaling was disconcerting to me the first couple of nights with C-Flex. I thought perhaps it was malfunctioning since it wasn't waiting until I started to inhale. Once I found out that slightly premature kick-in was the way C-Flex is supposed to work, I was able to ignore the "nudge" and wait (without having to think about it) until I was actually ready to inhale without being rushed. At high pressures, the nudge might be harder to ignore.
IF the pressure you've been using with your straight cpap machine doesn't cause you painful bloating (aerophagia) and IF the only reason you are thinking about C-flex is because breathing out against the straight pressure is "work", then I think you'd really love the smoother feel of breathing out with a bi-level machine. If you're at a rather high prescribed pressure, and really do require that pressure most of the night to handle your events, you could definitely get even more exhalation relief from a bi-level machine than what C-Flex does, nice as it is.
I'd get both machines (autopap and bi-level) by Puritan Bennett (small size for travel with either) so that I could use one software package (Silverlining and a download cable) with both. Only hitch in that plan is that I don't think PB's bi-level machine (the 425) can use the software at this point in time.
I've heard PB's working on that, but who knows when the software might be made compatible for the 425 bi-level. Even if it turned out that a person had to buy a new version of SL when they get it fixed to read the 425, that would still be less money than what the Encore Pro software and necessary card reader to use with the Respironics machines cost.
Not having software for the PB 425 bi-level wouldn't be a deciding factor to me, though; as overnight data is not anywhere near as important to see (imho) when using a bi-level machine as it is when using an autopap...IF I already had an autopap. By using autopap and software first, I could figure out easily what settings to use for the bi-level. (Been there, done that.)
If it were me, I think I'd go online to buy a 420E auto and the Silverlining software for it as the beginning step. You might find that machine alone suited you fine both at home and for travel. Even though its small size makes it very handy to take on trips, it's an extremely sophisticated machine that's great for full time use at home.
Since it's an autopap and would be varying the pressure according to what you actually need throughout the night, you might end up spending most of your sleep time down at lower pressures than what you're currently using with your straight cpap machine. In that case, you might find you can breathe out easily against the lower pressures and don't even need another machine for relief during exhalation.
At any rate, after using the 420E auto and looking at the data, you could decide what you wanted in your "second" machine. Perhaps you could try the second one out through a one month rental from the DME, taking your time in trying a bi-level as well as the Respironics REMstar Auto with C-Flex -- or any machine you thought you might like.
Just a thought.
I like the way you're analyzing your options, Sue! Two machines are definitely very good to have if a person can swing it.
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Simply Sue
- Posts: 21
- Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2005 7:02 pm
- Location: Wimberley
Thank you Rested Gal for your response. I'm honored by your attention!
I believe you really understood what I was asking but now I have a few more questions.
You said "IF the pressure you've been using with your straight cpap machine doesn't cause you painful bloating (aerophagia) and IF the only reason you are thinking about C-flex is because breathing out against the straight pressure is "work". OK...but.
What is causing my aerophagia? The doctor said I would adjust in time and turned my pressure down to 6.
Actually I complained also that I felt like I was hyper-ventilating and breathing very hard and fast before I went to sleep (with the ramp set to start at 4 and stop at . So that's also why she turned it down to 6 and told me to stop using the ramp.
I am still having aerophagia and developing defined abdomen muscles.
I've been reading these forums and requested an auto machine from my Dr. and she just sent the RX to the DME.......guess I might share this information with her and also request a bi-level (Is that the same as as BiPAP?)
Do you think I would have any problem adjusting to an auto machine on the weekend and a Bi-level during the week?
As you can probaly tell...I have a whole 300 hours on my Remstar (model nothing...not a pro, nor plus nor even a lite..just a remstar.) but I can see the improvement.
I believe you really understood what I was asking but now I have a few more questions.
You said "IF the pressure you've been using with your straight cpap machine doesn't cause you painful bloating (aerophagia) and IF the only reason you are thinking about C-flex is because breathing out against the straight pressure is "work". OK...but.
What is causing my aerophagia? The doctor said I would adjust in time and turned my pressure down to 6.
Actually I complained also that I felt like I was hyper-ventilating and breathing very hard and fast before I went to sleep (with the ramp set to start at 4 and stop at . So that's also why she turned it down to 6 and told me to stop using the ramp.
I am still having aerophagia and developing defined abdomen muscles.
I've been reading these forums and requested an auto machine from my Dr. and she just sent the RX to the DME.......guess I might share this information with her and also request a bi-level (Is that the same as as BiPAP?)
Do you think I would have any problem adjusting to an auto machine on the weekend and a Bi-level during the week?
As you can probaly tell...I have a whole 300 hours on my Remstar (model nothing...not a pro, nor plus nor even a lite..just a remstar.) but I can see the improvement.
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WillSucceed
- Posts: 1031
- Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 7:52 am
- Location: Toronto, Ontario
Simply Sue wrote:
You have not asked me, but I am answering anyway. I do think that you could find it a bit annoying to be using an auto during the week (NO pressure relief on exhale but lower pressures overall) and a bi-level (LOTS of pressure relief on exhale but unchanging inhale pressure) on the weekend. Sleeping with the hose can be very challenging and I'd be reluctant to give myself MORE to get used to. Trying to get used to two different machines at the same time seems like a daunting task.
I'd suggest getting your Dr. to let you trial both types of machine before you commit one or the other. In this way, you can find out for yourself which system (auto or bi-level) is most comfortable for you. As Rested Gal pointed out, I had a terrible time with C-FLEX and switched to an autopap (420E) which has solved all of the air-swallowing problems. Also, the auto (I trialed machines from ResMed, Respironics and Puritan-Bennett before I purchased the 420E) all show that I don't need the prescribed pressure of 15, but do nicely at around 9 for 90% of the night and only go up to 11 periodically for short periods. Without an auto, and software, I'd still be struggling against the prescribed 15 and hating every minute of the night.
HOWEVER, unfortunately for me, I am still having some difficulty with rapid breathing and would like to try a bi-level to see how I do with it. It seems that just having the pressure hitting me makes me breath rapidly. As Rested Gal pointed out, a bi-level (or bi-pap) has two pressures, one for inhale and another, lower pressure, for exhale. The machine will wait patiently for you to finish exhaling before it increases up to the prescribed inhalation pressure.
So, long story short, try to test-drive a few auto machines over the course of several weeks and see how you do. Then, if possible, test drive bi-level and see how that goes. I'm going to have to wait until I'm eligible for another sleep study (Nov. 2005) and see if they will let me try out a bi-level.
Good-luck!!
Hi Sue:Do you think I would have any problem adjusting to an auto machine on the weekend and a Bi-level during the week?
You have not asked me, but I am answering anyway. I do think that you could find it a bit annoying to be using an auto during the week (NO pressure relief on exhale but lower pressures overall) and a bi-level (LOTS of pressure relief on exhale but unchanging inhale pressure) on the weekend. Sleeping with the hose can be very challenging and I'd be reluctant to give myself MORE to get used to. Trying to get used to two different machines at the same time seems like a daunting task.
I'd suggest getting your Dr. to let you trial both types of machine before you commit one or the other. In this way, you can find out for yourself which system (auto or bi-level) is most comfortable for you. As Rested Gal pointed out, I had a terrible time with C-FLEX and switched to an autopap (420E) which has solved all of the air-swallowing problems. Also, the auto (I trialed machines from ResMed, Respironics and Puritan-Bennett before I purchased the 420E) all show that I don't need the prescribed pressure of 15, but do nicely at around 9 for 90% of the night and only go up to 11 periodically for short periods. Without an auto, and software, I'd still be struggling against the prescribed 15 and hating every minute of the night.
HOWEVER, unfortunately for me, I am still having some difficulty with rapid breathing and would like to try a bi-level to see how I do with it. It seems that just having the pressure hitting me makes me breath rapidly. As Rested Gal pointed out, a bi-level (or bi-pap) has two pressures, one for inhale and another, lower pressure, for exhale. The machine will wait patiently for you to finish exhaling before it increases up to the prescribed inhalation pressure.
So, long story short, try to test-drive a few auto machines over the course of several weeks and see how you do. Then, if possible, test drive bi-level and see how that goes. I'm going to have to wait until I'm eligible for another sleep study (Nov. 2005) and see if they will let me try out a bi-level.
Good-luck!!
Buy a new hat, drink a good wine, treat yourself, and someone you love, to a new bauble, live while you are alive... you never know when the mid-town bus is going to have your name written across its front bumper!
Simply Sue wrote:
What is causing my aerophagia? The doctor said I would adjust in time and turned my pressure down to 6.
Actually I complained also that I felt like I was hyper-ventilating and breathing very hard and fast before I went to sleep (with the ramp set to start at 4 and stop at . So that's also why she turned it down to 6 and told me to stop using the ramp.
Sue,
This may or may not be relevant. But I have been suffering with aerophagia but after experimenting, believe I may know why. But before I say why I will add that my pressure was diagnosed to 15cms. I tried dropping by 1 cm & that seemed to significantly lower the condition. Then for the past few nights I went back up to 15 & a full face mask & that seemed ok. Last night I went back to my nasal mask & back came the aerophagia. Tonight I will reduce to 14 & if it goes I will regard this as me having a personal threshold of 14cms for nasal masks & a 15cms threshold for f/f masks.
One other factor that was brought home to me last night was my need to seal my mouth shut with J&J waterproof tape if using a nasal mask. I had forgot to do this as I was reverting to my nasal mask (my chin strap was present but doesn't seal my mouth). I will be switching back to a f/f mask soon after further experiments.
### Update:
Also, I am quite convinced that a high C-FLEX setting (of 3 vs 2), causes me to swallow more air. The RemStar unit I have is quite impressive as to how fast and far it ramps up the pressure during breath cycles. (I have no trouble keeping the machine in tune with my breathing rhythm). Again my high cms setting means the machine accelrates fast & quick, result - tummyfulls of air.
###
Am hoping that my experience may help you with understanding what might be happening in your case allowing that you are way lower on cms than I. But I am a solidly build male.
Cheers
DSM
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CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): Ramp, seal
xPAP and Quattro std mask (plus a pad-a-cheek anti-leak strap)
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Simply Sue
- Posts: 21
- Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2005 7:02 pm
- Location: Wimberley
2 autopaps
Thanks WillSucceed & dsm for your input. I am listening and learning!!!
I noticed in another posting that RG had a concern about the 420E. "WillSucceed, if PB ever adds exhalation relief to the 420E auto, that wonderful little machine will be the one I yap about all the time to new users considering an autopap."
What does she mean and does that affect me with my "anxious" breathing?
I noticed in another posting that RG had a concern about the 420E. "WillSucceed, if PB ever adds exhalation relief to the 420E auto, that wonderful little machine will be the one I yap about all the time to new users considering an autopap."
What does she mean and does that affect me with my "anxious" breathing?
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rested gal
- Posts: 12881
- Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2004 10:14 pm
- Location: Tennessee
Sue, it wasn't really a concern about the 420E, it was just that since C-Flex is a help to many people (not to WillSucceed) it would be nice if the other autopap mfgr's had a similar exhalation reduction feature for their machines too.
If the 420E auto had an exhale relief feature the way the Respironics REMstar does, I'd be recommending the 420E auto all the time to new users, instead of my usual recommendation of the REMstar Auto with C-Flex. I remember how confused I was about which autopap to get when I was starting...so I tend to hop right out on a limb and mention one in particular if someone seems to be in the same decision quandry.
I've always liked the 420E auto so much, not only because the machine was sophisticated workhorse in a small package, but also because of the Silverlining software it uses is my favorite.
However, since there is only one autopap at this time that can give any exhalation relief at all if a person wants/needs that in an autopap, I do "yap" about the Respironics REMstar Auto with C-flex to most people who ask what autopap they should get if they have a choice. (The C-Flex can always be turned off.)
I agree with WillSucceed that renting several different brands and/or types of machines is the best way to go.
Unfortunately, many people are not dealing with DMEs (or doctors, either) who will let them switch from month to month to whatever machine they want to try.
If the 420E auto had an exhale relief feature the way the Respironics REMstar does, I'd be recommending the 420E auto all the time to new users, instead of my usual recommendation of the REMstar Auto with C-Flex. I remember how confused I was about which autopap to get when I was starting...so I tend to hop right out on a limb and mention one in particular if someone seems to be in the same decision quandry.
I've always liked the 420E auto so much, not only because the machine was sophisticated workhorse in a small package, but also because of the Silverlining software it uses is my favorite.
However, since there is only one autopap at this time that can give any exhalation relief at all if a person wants/needs that in an autopap, I do "yap" about the Respironics REMstar Auto with C-flex to most people who ask what autopap they should get if they have a choice. (The C-Flex can always be turned off.)
I agree with WillSucceed that renting several different brands and/or types of machines is the best way to go.
Unfortunately, many people are not dealing with DMEs (or doctors, either) who will let them switch from month to month to whatever machine they want to try.
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rested gal
- Posts: 12881
- Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2004 10:14 pm
- Location: Tennessee
Sue, do you have aerophagia (bloating) at a pressure of 6? And is 6 difficult for you to exhale against?
Just want to be sure I understand what pressure is causing you difficulties when you wrote:
Just want to be sure I understand what pressure is causing you difficulties when you wrote:
So that's also why she turned it down to 6 and told me to stop using the ramp.
I am still having aerophagia and developing defined abdomen muscles.
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Simply Sue
- Posts: 21
- Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2005 7:02 pm
- Location: Wimberley
I do still have aerophagia (bloating) at a pressure of 6? And it is not so difficult at 6 for me to exhale against but it keeps me awake feeling as if I am racing the machine? My respirations before sleep are probably 60 as opposed to 20 when I sleep.
My AHI preCPAP was 81 but I actually only slept 1 hour with the mask on during my last sleep study. (I resisted sleep about 45 min.)
I didn't understand that the C-Flex was the only one with exhalation relief....I thought the 420 was the only one without it.
My AHI preCPAP was 81 but I actually only slept 1 hour with the mask on during my last sleep study. (I resisted sleep about 45 min.)
I didn't understand that the C-Flex was the only one with exhalation relief....I thought the 420 was the only one without it.
"My respirations before sleep are probably 60 as opposed to 20 when I sleep. "
60
You seem to have issues with using the cpap. Its a mind thing. At 60 breaths a minute you should be unconscious from hyperventilation. I know its not easy for you but you need to relax. Count in 2,3,4,5, out 2,3,4,5, in 2,3,4,5.....out ..see the air is still there, you can still breathe, now read a book . You'll be breathing normally in no time..
:twis ted:
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CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): CPAP
60
You seem to have issues with using the cpap. Its a mind thing. At 60 breaths a minute you should be unconscious from hyperventilation. I know its not easy for you but you need to relax. Count in 2,3,4,5, out 2,3,4,5, in 2,3,4,5.....out ..see the air is still there, you can still breathe, now read a book . You'll be breathing normally in no time..
:twis ted:
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CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): CPAP
SS, I also am still having trouble adjusting. I find that if I don't get a book, magazine or something to think about instead of listening to the machine and my breathing, I soon breathe faster and faster and swallow air also. I've just learned to keep my mind occupied with something else and then I drift off to sleep. Only if I keep ramp on, also. I can't go without it, I've tried.
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Simply Sue
- Posts: 21
- Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2005 7:02 pm
- Location: Wimberley
My Dr. turned my pressure down to 6 and told me to stop using the ramp since that low a pressure makes you breathe harder. The 6 did help my swallowing air some but I can't tell that I am sleeping any better....I'm back to wanting 10 hours bedtime. Before CPAP I could stay inbed 12 hours.
I do relax before sleep...I can read with my swift on.
The DME's RT offered to let me try a bipap out in his office. Will that do any good?
PS...how do I swallow air? What is the mechanics? My mouth stays closed.
I do relax before sleep...I can read with my swift on.
The DME's RT offered to let me try a bipap out in his office. Will that do any good?
PS...how do I swallow air? What is the mechanics? My mouth stays closed.
dsm......question?
dsm:
what is the reason you have an AUTO machine set at a fixed pressure? doesn't that defeat the reason for an auto? i have the same machine set at 10cm to 20cm. my old fixed pressure was 18cm H2o. and i find the auto feature and c-flex at 3 great for me. thanks for your input! can never learn too much!
steve,
ufo13
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CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): C-FLEX, auto
what is the reason you have an AUTO machine set at a fixed pressure? doesn't that defeat the reason for an auto? i have the same machine set at 10cm to 20cm. my old fixed pressure was 18cm H2o. and i find the auto feature and c-flex at 3 great for me. thanks for your input! can never learn too much!
steve,
ufo13
_________________
CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): C-FLEX, auto
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| Mask: AirFit™ P10 Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear |
| Additional Comments: Also use ResMed N30 and ResMed P30i |
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Simply Sue
- Posts: 21
- Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2005 7:02 pm
- Location: Wimberley
OK...my latest update. Got Dr. to OK an AutoPap.
Met with my DME today who let me try a BiPap with BiFlex machine. It was wonderful......no effort to exhale!
However he told me that no current biPap on the market is auto.
I am still trying to find my pressure....8 seemed to high and 6 was to low so he lent me an auto (Spirit) for 2 weeks.
So when I finally get this all figured out.......should I get a BiPap for home and an auto to travel with????? THAT IS STILL THE QUESTION.
Met with my DME today who let me try a BiPap with BiFlex machine. It was wonderful......no effort to exhale!
However he told me that no current biPap on the market is auto.
I am still trying to find my pressure....8 seemed to high and 6 was to low so he lent me an auto (Spirit) for 2 weeks.
So when I finally get this all figured out.......should I get a BiPap for home and an auto to travel with????? THAT IS STILL THE QUESTION.
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rested gal
- Posts: 12881
- Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2004 10:14 pm
- Location: Tennessee
Sue, I wish the autopap the DME is letting you trial were the one you're interested in buying - the PB420E auto. That would kill two birds with one stone - accomplish what the doctor is looking for in an autopap trial (what pressure works best for you) and be letting you try out the 420E auto at the same time.
Oh well...at least you are getting to try an autopap.
The Spirit is a fine machine, I don't mean to knock it... but it is large and clunky compared to the compact 420E auto which is much handier for travel.
If the humidifier that's with the Spirit you're using is the Humidaire 2i, don't judge all integrated humidifiers by that one. I found the Humidaire 2i a real pain to try to deal with. I finally rigged up a funnel with a tube, so I wouldn't have to take the humidifier chamber off and turn it up on its side each time just to do something as simple as adding more distilled water. Also, the Humidaire 2i didn't seem to get the water anywhere near as warm as other brands of heated humidifiers I've used. I had to turn its heat setting all the way up just to get the amount of warmth that others give at much lower settings.
Wasn't the BiPAP fun? Like exhaling into an empty hose. No work at all. I'm glad you got to experience it.
About the aerophagia. It's easy to swallow with mouth closed. Plus, I think that for some people, under certain circumstances, perhaps the air flow pushes past whatever anatomical features normally close off the esophagus, allowing some air to go down the wrong way even when you don't actually swallow. Possibly more likely to happen if you sleep sometimes with chin tucked down toward your chest.
GERD (acid reflux) also might be a culprit, causing reflexive swallowing as the acid from the stomach rises up into the esophagus.
I don't know if a BiPAP would relieve that. When I tried out two bi-level machines (BiPAP and VPAP III) I got aerophagia from either one, IF I put the higher Inhale pressure above 12. They were extremely comfortable to use as long as I kept the higher pressure no more than 12. (Eleven does me fine anyway, so no problem.)
I've never had aerophagia from any of the three brands of autopaps I've used with my normal range. Only have gotten it when experimentally using a few straight high pressures with one of them, just to see what higher pressures felt like. Aerophagia is awful!! I have a very low pain threshold, so it didn't take much bloating to have me get up after a couple of hours to turn that pressure down -- FAST.
You, however, can get aerophagia even down as low as 6. So if your autopap trial indicates that you need more than 6 very often, a BiPAP might not help you deal with that at all. Trialing a BiPAP at home for a week or so would be the only way to know how it might handle aerophagia for you.
I'm sorry I ever brought BiPAP up earlier in the thread. That was before I knew you have aerophagia at such a low pressure! But at least the mention caused you to get your DME to let you see what BiPAP felt like for a few minutes. Easiest exhaling of all! And who knows...perhaps BiPAP is what could prevent aerophagia for you. I don't know. How's that for a noncomittal answer?
Oh well...at least you are getting to try an autopap.
The Spirit is a fine machine, I don't mean to knock it... but it is large and clunky compared to the compact 420E auto which is much handier for travel.
If the humidifier that's with the Spirit you're using is the Humidaire 2i, don't judge all integrated humidifiers by that one. I found the Humidaire 2i a real pain to try to deal with. I finally rigged up a funnel with a tube, so I wouldn't have to take the humidifier chamber off and turn it up on its side each time just to do something as simple as adding more distilled water. Also, the Humidaire 2i didn't seem to get the water anywhere near as warm as other brands of heated humidifiers I've used. I had to turn its heat setting all the way up just to get the amount of warmth that others give at much lower settings.
Wasn't the BiPAP fun? Like exhaling into an empty hose. No work at all. I'm glad you got to experience it.
About the aerophagia. It's easy to swallow with mouth closed. Plus, I think that for some people, under certain circumstances, perhaps the air flow pushes past whatever anatomical features normally close off the esophagus, allowing some air to go down the wrong way even when you don't actually swallow. Possibly more likely to happen if you sleep sometimes with chin tucked down toward your chest.
GERD (acid reflux) also might be a culprit, causing reflexive swallowing as the acid from the stomach rises up into the esophagus.
LOL!! Well, I'd get the 420E auto for both - one small machine for both home and travel. The only reason I can think of that you might want to get a BiPAP is if you had a chance to trial it at home, continued to love the easy exhalation you experienced for a few minutes at the DME, and most importantly...didn't get aerophagia while using it.So when I finally get this all figured out.......should I get a BiPap for home and an auto to travel with????? THAT IS STILL THE QUESTION.
I don't know if a BiPAP would relieve that. When I tried out two bi-level machines (BiPAP and VPAP III) I got aerophagia from either one, IF I put the higher Inhale pressure above 12. They were extremely comfortable to use as long as I kept the higher pressure no more than 12. (Eleven does me fine anyway, so no problem.)
I've never had aerophagia from any of the three brands of autopaps I've used with my normal range. Only have gotten it when experimentally using a few straight high pressures with one of them, just to see what higher pressures felt like. Aerophagia is awful!! I have a very low pain threshold, so it didn't take much bloating to have me get up after a couple of hours to turn that pressure down -- FAST.
You, however, can get aerophagia even down as low as 6. So if your autopap trial indicates that you need more than 6 very often, a BiPAP might not help you deal with that at all. Trialing a BiPAP at home for a week or so would be the only way to know how it might handle aerophagia for you.
I'm sorry I ever brought BiPAP up earlier in the thread. That was before I knew you have aerophagia at such a low pressure! But at least the mention caused you to get your DME to let you see what BiPAP felt like for a few minutes. Easiest exhaling of all! And who knows...perhaps BiPAP is what could prevent aerophagia for you. I don't know. How's that for a noncomittal answer?