Mouth taping vs. FF mask?????

[becka]

I have been on CPAP and now Bipap for almost a year. Started with the nasal pillows but could not tolerate air blowing up my nose. I had the same mouth opening problem with the nasal mask and tried tape which was murder for my sensitive skin. After having limited sucess with the REsmed Activa I am now relatively happy with a Quattro. I put moleskin on the sides touching my face and bought a pad from pad a cheek for the forehead and top of the nose. That eliminated the red marks and abrasion on my skin so I can have the mask tight enough to prevent leaks. I also use a Pap pillow so the mask is not touched. I use a medium size mask and the bottom usually stays well below my mouth. One time I woke up and it was under my chin which actually was OK since it helped keep my mouth closed so it would not get very dry. I use a drop of lemon oil from a herbal store in my humidifier water and I believe it helps with overdryness and it smells good. Anyway, this is what has worked for me and everyone has different size faces.

[echo]

I use a drop of lemon oil from a herbal store in my humidifier water and I believe it helps with overdryness and it smells good. Anyway, this is what has worked for me and everyone has different size faces.

Becka, glad you have found what works for you. Though I wouldn't continue with putting lemon oil in the HH. There was some discussions a while back about the risks of inhaling lipids (fats/oils) through the HH ("lipid pneumonia" i believe it's called). It could be that the lemon is not actually fat-based, but even then I would be careful about continued nightly use. It might be better to put a drop on a cotton ball and put that near the air intake (a-la the Pur-sleep way).

As for mouth taping, I thought I had wrote it in this thread but probably it was elsewhere, so I'll repeat it again....

Ways to avoid ripping your skin off in the mornings when you mouth tape:
- Use a bit of milk of magnesia around your lips/mouth (& let it dry) before you put the tape on.
- Stick the tape on your hand first so that the stickiness is reduced
- In the morning apply some hand/face lotion or cold cream on the tape and let it soak in for a few minutes - the tape will come off much easier. Some lotions/creams work better than others.

Leonbergergirl: I use both the Activa+tape and the UMFF. I find that it's nice to have a few masks to rotate between - sometimes I can't tolerate the tape and sometiems I can't tolerate the FFM. Though in all honesty I think I sleep better with the FFM, but that's only due to congestion. If you're not congested, and you don't have any other health issues contraindicated for mouth taping, then there's no reason not to tape (my non-medical opinion of course ). I think it comes down to comfort in the end. And sometimes I prefer the FFM so that I can yawn like a normal person when falling asleep

[frapilu]

Echo,

thanks for those tips. Part of why I'm waffling between taping and the FFM is that my skin gets sensitive after a few days of taping. I'll copy your tips and paste them into a document to save in my PDA.

Thanks
France

[gasp]

Hi
I have the full face Quattro, have tried many different masks, I have a nose with pressure sores I am constantly dealing with, and I am also a mouth breather. I got a splint from my dentist to stop me from grinding my teeth, but I have not been able to get my strenght back like I did when I first started in 2005. When I would feel sleep deprived we upped the pressure, however with my last sleep study, it showed mask leaks was why I am not progressing. Even with the splint, I wake up with the lower portion of the mask in my mouth. I tried taping my lips but got a flight response. I find myself very frustrated. Any suggestions? Thank you Barb

Have you tried a size larger mask so it won't end up in your mouth?

[psikes]

Well, after three nights I finally got a good nights sleep with the Liberty mask. The nose pillows are by far the most comfortable I have ever tried but size is of great importance with this mask it seems. I started with the medium size but could not get a good seal. I finally tried all three one after the other and settled on the large pillows. For now, I am really enjoying the Liberty mask. The Quattro on the other hand has been a dismal failure. Even with the right size (small) it leaks like a sieve no matter how I try and adjust it.

My only problem now continues to be a serious case of dry mouth in the middle of the night. I even used a chin strap last night to see if holding my mouth closed would help, it didn't. I did manage to moisten my mouth a little and get back to sleep but all in all I woke three times with dry mouth. I did try the humidifier at a setting of 0, 1, and 3 last night with 3 being slightly better but no major differences. I am going to call my DME this morning and see if she has any suggestions.

So for me, the Liberty with a small mouth cushion and large nose pillows has worked out to be my best mask yet.

Phil

[birdshell]

One thought on wrinkling the upper lip with tape: You may wish to try running the tape vertically over your mouth, especially with 1" wide tape. I do so because I can get a better seal of my lips, and the tape then contours over the mouth and onto the chin. I have experienced no upper lip wrinkles... But then, we are all different, aren't we?

RE: Sizes of the Liberty mask.

Just to clarify:

As far as I know, the Liberty comes in ONLY two sizes: Small and Large. [URL=https://www.cpap.com/productpage/mirage ... llows.html]ResMed Liberty Mask on cpap.com[//b][URL]

In your post, Phil, you are referring to the sizes of the nasal pillows, which will fit into either size cushion. The nasal pillows come in sizes S-M-L.

As a one year user of the Liberty, I found it to be comfortable but since I have slotted nares, the tips would tend to leak even if I used the Large nasal pillows. I found that using a REAL PANTYHOSE leg tied just under the nasal pillows was the solution. Sadly, I never tried the one demonstrated here:

I have been using the Hybrid since last fall and I think it is a great mask, I did have to make a mod for it to keep the nasal pillows in place, and it works fine, I have been trying the Liberty the past week and found it had the same problems as the Hybrid with the nasal pillows, luckily my mod for the Hybrid works just as good for the Liberty. Anyway my mod is made with Hair Elastics and Christmas Tree/Net Light clips it is pretty easy to do and it works great.
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The pictures are pretty self explanatory but I will try to answer any questions, if I can. I hope this helps if anybody has problems with the nasal pillows leaking or keeping them in place. I do swab my nostrils with Nasal Saline Gel just before putting my mask on, as it helps the pillows to seal. And I put a gauge pad under the elastic on my forehead to keep it from leaving a mark.

I had to quit using the Liberty before I could Whitebeard's fix. My Liberty broke AGAIN! I'm hoping that I had the older model, as ResMed has supposedly fixed the elbow and upper strap hook weaknesses. Anyone know if they have improved, or not?

Karen,
Who liked doing almost NOTHING to wear the Liberty
From the Home of the Free

[Barbarainmichigan]

Hi,
Funny, the sleep lab fit me with a large, I struggled with that and then after a check up found I needed a small. The ulceration of my nose is from my quattro mask. I am using the liberty mask that has nasal prongs and goes over my mouth, by I do not sleep well with it. Dry skin and dry mouth as well. I wonder if the tank is not lasting the full night on the humidifier perhaps the room you sleep in needs more moisture with a humidifier close to the head of the bed. This might help decreasing the amount you use in a water tank on your c pap machine. I had the large for about a year before I was told to switch, but still have the sore nose. Birdshell, is that nylon cording your using, or a silk like rope? Very interesting because the liberty head gear seems to place a lot of pressure on the nares and upper lip, I wonder if what your doing helps with that? Barb

[birdshell]

The above picture was Whitebeard's solution.


I just used the Liberty as it came, and tied my pantyhose (not tights) leg around the middle of the nasal pillows and behind my head.

I am guessing that this could help you to loosen the straps a little and avoid that pressured feeling.

Karen

[Hawthorne]

Phil - You might try that vertical mouth taping with 1 or 1 1/2 inch medical tape with your Liberty. I use that method, with great success, while using a nasal pillows or prongs mask. I just seem to need a slight "reminder" ( the strip of vertical tapes does that for me), to keep my mouth shut!

Another thing I do every night is rinse my mouth with Biotene Mouthwash. It is especially forumlated for dry mouth. You might try that first and leave the vertical mouth taping until you see if Biotene is enough to solve your problem.

[psikes]

Thanks for the tip on taping but it would seriously interfere with my mustache and beard!! For me, the combination of small face cushion and large nose pillows seem to be a great solution. Thanks for the Biotene mouthwash hint also. I remembered seeing something about this once before but couldn't find the post again.

Thanks to everyone on the forum, you are an invaluable resource for us new to CPAP.

Phil

[Barbarainmichigan]

Hi all

Thanks so much for the info. I will try the stocking idea tonight. I am so glad to have found this great group. Where can you buy activia tape?

I also was warned about not using essential oils in the water because you are in effect inhaling the properties into your lungs, not only with the risk of a fatty embolism, but you could be destroying viable tissue.

[birdshell]

Phil - You might try that vertical mouth taping with 1 or 1 1/2 inch medical tape with your Liberty. I use that method, with great success, while using a nasal pillows or prongs mask. I just seem to need a slight "reminder" ( the strip of vertical tapes does that for me), to keep my mouth shut!

Another thing I do every night is rinse my mouth with Biotene Mouthwash. It is especially forumlated for dry mouth. You might try that first and leave the vertical mouth taping until you see if Biotene is enough to solve your problem.

The Liberty is a full-faced mask, though, so it should cover the mouth breathing problem. Taping doesn't help with dry mouth for me. And, why tape if using a full faced mask? One may as well use a far less intrusive nasal mask in that case. However, we ARE each individuals, so maybe that will help.

I have tried the Biotene mouthwash, which helped. But, I have found Oasis mouthwash helps much more with the dry mouth. (Used along with my flossing and brushing with my trusty Sonicare toothbrush, that is.) Mine is caused by medications, though...I tend to have dry tongue while producing plenty of saliva. I guess I don't move my tongue enough to disperse that moisture while asleep.

Karen

[frapilu]

Karen,

I just love your posts with all those cool emoticoms. Just had to tell you

France, who just has the regular emoticoms that comes with cpaptalk.com

[birdshell]

Dear France, and any others:

I use Smiley Xtra 4, which is an add-on for Firefox.

If you use the Firefox browser, here is the URL: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/375

This MAY be my favorite:

Karen,
Who believes the more, the merrier!

P.S. My signature followed by "Who..." is a tribute to a forum member who is not often here now--due to his inability to tolerate any CPAP treatment although he tried valiantly over and over. Liam, it was a great idea and you were much better at it than I!

[Liam1965]

P.S. My signature followed by "Who..." is a tribute to a forum member who is not often here now--due to his inability to tolerate any CPAP treatment although he tried valiantly over and over. Liam, it was a great idea and you were much better at it than I!

Liam the Narcissist arrives to say "Thank you".

Liam, who finds narcissism SO much easier to accomplish when people send him a private message to let him know he's been mentioned.