Sleep Apnea and IQ

[roster]

If you had a bad case of apnea for a long period of time you most likely have brain damage which is not reversible. Yes, the brain is amazing and can compensate for some of the damage. But again, if you have much damage you will never be the same again. Just look at that link I posted; here is an excerpt.

The disease can swallow parts of your brain until it seems day and night become one, until whole thoughts vanish and dreams blur with reality.

It stole what Jim Reynolds used to be: a genius with an IQ of 168 who could compute complicated mathematical problems as efficiently as a calculator.

"It took me from a superfunctioning human being to a blob," said the 66-year-old Northridge man, a race car driver and pilot who also was a consultant for the original Laserium at Griffith Park Observatory.

But because of sleep apnea, or interrupted breathing during sleep, the former business owner - who used to work 14-hour days, make split-second decisions and lead a fast-paced lifestyle - simply shut down. So did his company.

"Time passes," he said. "Your life passes, and you can't do anything."

Now, UCLA researchers have found that sleep apnea can lead to serious brain injury that disrupts memory and thinking. If not treated quickly, it could have a lasting impact, said principal investigator Ronald Harper, a neurobiology professor at UCLA's David Geffen School of Medicine.

For me personally, it is a new reality I have to accept and learn to deal with.

[sleepydoll]

Thanks to all for contributing to this. I'm still learning about all this brain mechanism - its all new to me (I didn't take biology). My question: what is the function of the brain stem, and how could this disease have possibly given me this condition? Jay

Hello Jay!

The brain stem (or brainstem) is the lower part of the brain, adjoining and structurally continuous with the spinal cord.

The brain stem provides the main motor and sensory innervation to the face and neck via the cranial nerves. The neurons (nerve structure)of the motor and sensory systems (feeling, touch)for the rest of the body also pass through the brain stem.
This includes
- the corticospinal tract(motor),
- the posterior column-medial lemniscus pathway(fine touch, vibration sensation and proprioception)
- and the spinothalamic tract(pain, temperature, itch and crude touch).

( See thread below for image.)
http://i313.photobucket.com/albums/ll39 ... ray719.png

The brain stem also plays an important role in the regulation of cardiac and respiratory function.
- It also regulated the central nervous system, and is pivotal in maintaining consciousness and regulating the sleep cycle.

Encephalitis is an acute inflammation of the brain, commonly caused by a viral infection, or it can be caused by a bacterial infection such as bacterial meningitis spreading directly to the brain.

Nerve cells may be damaged or destroyed by the viral infection, the immune reaction and by pressure resulting from the inflammation. This damage is termed “acquired brain injury (ABI). Some loss of brain function is therefore a probable outcome of encephalitis. In some cases, however, this loss occurs on a relatively small scale resulting in very minor impairment, such as some loss in speed of thinking. In other cases damage can be extensive leading to significant impairments.

[thefivefingeredhand]

This is all more depressing than I can handle. I'm still smart enough to realize that I have taken a big hit to my cognitive abilities. It's not just the IQ test that has made me realize this. Actually I took the test because I was worried about what I already noticed was happening. I took it repeatedly and found I got about the same score each time, so I'm assuming that that's where I'm at now

I think what's the most hurtful is that people don't believe that I used to be quicker. A lot quicker. Now I can barely hold two things in my head, let alone one. I have absolutely no short term memory. That is the most worrisome thing.

Yes I've been using the CPAP about 6 months I think. I use it all the time and my AHI is around 2 every night. Some days I feel fine, but most days I'm groggy. I have problems with insomnia even with treated OSA.

I'm really feeling extremely depressed about this. Everything seems way too hard. Even things I used to be able to do with ease. I've forgotten it all and trying to relearn it seems impossible.

This is not a reality I want to live.

[ozij]

We seem to have a number of questions here.

Sleep apnea and brain damage
Brain damamge and IQ
Age and IQ.

I have no doubt that Rooster's quote, taken from a newspaper report of Harper's study is a description of the person while suffering from lack of oxygen to his brain. Lack of oxygen to your brain cells harms them - renewed oxygen brings much of the functioning back.

The human brain's reslience, and ability to renew damaged functioning is truly amazing.

And recent research has shown that contrary to what was thought in the past, even the cells themselves regenerate. Not all damage is irreversible.

There are a number of IQ test, and they are different. Age changes the way our brains function, and the way we process information. We are not as quick in respoding, our short term memory doesn't contain as much info, and our reflexes in general are slower. Any test using speed of response, and short term memory will show us worse than we were.

On the other hand, as Joannie said, age brings on a different kind of cognitive functioning in which experience comes into play.

Mathematicians are (usually) at their best at a younger age. Philosophers take longer to mature.

O.

[crossfit]

There are a number of IQ test, and they are different. Age changes the way our brains function, and the way we process information. We are not as quick in respoding, our short term memory doesn't contain as much info, and our reflexes in general are slower. Any test using speed of response, and short term memory will show us worse than we were.

This is an interesting point. I read also that our brains tend to sacrifice our short term memory in SA in order to save the longer term functionality. So the short term memory and speed thinking may be doubly impacted while other parts of our brain are not.

[sleepydoll]

[quote="thefivefingeredhand"]This is all more depressing than I can handle. I have absolutely no short term memory. That is the most worrisome thing. Yes I've been using the CPAP about 6 months I think.
I'm really feeling extremely depressed about this. Everything seems way too hard. Even things I used to be able to do with ease. I've forgotten it all and trying to relearn it seems impossible.
This is not a reality I want to live.

[Guest]

Without my ability to think, I'm nothing. I can't do physical labor. I'm not old enough to retire.

[JZ]

I think what's the most hurtful is that people don't believe that I used to be quicker. A lot quicker. Now I can barely hold two things in my head, let alone one. I have absolutely no short term memory. That is the most worrisome thing.

Yes I've been using the CPAP about 6 months I think. I use it all the time and my AHI is around 2 every night. Some days I feel fine, but most days I'm groggy. I have problems with insomnia even with treated OSA.

I'm really feeling extremely depressed about this. Everything seems way too hard. Even things I used to be able to do with ease. I've forgotten it all and trying to relearn it seems impossible.

This is not a reality I want to live.

fivefingered,

I'm sorry to hear that those around you do not believe that things have changed for you. Many of us here believe you because we have had similar experiences. I think I have had some (limited, but noticeable) cognitive improvement during my second year of cpap.

Please hang in there and give cpap more time to help restore what it can. You likely need to work on maximizing your cpap therapy and addressing your insomnia before you see improvement. I hope you can determine the sources of your grogginess and find ways to resolve those issues. There are many here on this forum who can provide guidance.

If you need to, look for a skilled professional who can help you to increase your acceptance of what you have lost and to develop compensation techniques that will help you perform at a higher level.

We are all pulling for you.

[sleepydoll]

Without my ability to think, I'm nothing. I can't do physical labor. I'm not old enough to retire.

Perhaps this will help...Once you choose hope, anything's possible.

http://www.wikihow.com/Cope-With-Short- ... y-Problems

[mindy]

This is all more depressing than I can handle. I'm still smart enough to realize that I have taken a big hit to my cognitive abilities. ...

I think what's the most hurtful is that people don't believe that I used to be quicker. A lot quicker. Now I can barely hold two things in my head, let alone one. I have absolutely no short term memory. That is the most worrisome thing.

I'm really feeling extremely depressed about this. Everything seems way too hard. Even things I used to be able to do with ease. I've forgotten it all and trying to relearn it seems impossible.

This is not a reality I want to live.

I think I understand. I've had difficult challenges to face for reasons besides sleep apnea. I used to be on the fast track for upper management in industry when flashbacks from PTSD took over. Besides the flashbacks, I feel the meds definitely affected my brain. I strongly suspect that sleep apnea just added to the pile.

Now I do much lower level work (for less money but also less stress) and I sometimes find it frustrating that I can't do the level of work I used to be able to. However, there are also many benefits. I'm much more tuned in to the people around me and their feelings, I live much more in the moment instead of always wanting something else and I'm generally happier (though still get depressed at times).

I guess what I'm trying to say is that "yes, those feelings are real and they are understandable and they are ok". At the same time, where we are now is ok too and there are [sometimes unquantifiable] benefits from being where we are now.

Work is frustrating for me because it takes me longer to do things and it's harder to learn new things at a speed I'm accustomed to. I wouldn't take an IQ test because I can guarantee it won't be what it used to be. The same way, I wouldn't want a brain fMRI because I don't want to see the Swiss cheese my brain has become. What I *can* do is to live each day and enjoy what I have, including friendships.

Mindy

[Country4ever]

Hi Fivefingeredhand,

I can very much relate to what you're saying. May I ask how old you are?
There are so many possible reasons for your brainfog now.......from nutrition to aging to vitamin deficiency, to something like ADD, etc.
Do you eat healthily? Do you have any other medical problems? Are you on any meds? I'm on a beta blocker and it makes me dumber than a box of rocks. I can get really anxious just from not being able to think clearly.
How about your blood sugar, and your thyroid levels?
I get very sad too, because I used to be very sharp and quick. I'm 58, and the doc acts like its normal to have these problems as we age. But it sure isn't fun.
Try to be patient with yourself. Try to be as healthy as you can be. Definitely cut back on sugar and other carbs.
I've heard that constantly learning new things can keep our brains in better shape.......something like learning a new language.
I guess I don't have alot to offer, except support. Hang in there.
P.S. Another thing to check might be your testosterone level. I've heard that men can actually have menopausal-type symptoms too, but with a lower testosterone level. Haha.......on a comedy show awhile back, a little kid referred to menopause as "mentalpause". That's a better word for it!
Also.......depressed people can have mentation problems.

[roster]

Without my ability to think, I'm nothing. I can't do physical labor. I'm not old enough to retire.

Can you do this:

-Show up every day decently groomed and dressed?
-Treat associates with respect and develop good relationships with as many associates as you come in contact with?
-Give customers the feeling you love doing business with them?
-Stay out of politics?
-Be loyal to the company?

I have done a lot of hiring and mentoring of professional and managerial employees. Give me one employee who can do those things listed and I will give you five with high IQs and good memories who fail in many of those things.

You can be a very valuable employee despite some shortcomings in memory and higher thinking levels.

Hang in there.

[OldLincoln]

I was more than quite worried about short term memory before xPAP, it was seriously bad. Based on my sleep patterns I must have had OSA for 10 years or more before I went to the doc. He told me that probably had a large impact, born out when my oxygen numbers were in the mid 70's for a good part of the night.

After about 15 months now, I have recovered the most dangerous part - getting lost all the time. I still have good and not good days but it can improve, so don't let it get you down. Cheat a little, at work I carried a pen and pad everywhere and wrote notes, and so forth.

I had to accept that as I've aged, memory is about like all the other parts - can't pee, can't remember.

[pianomagoo]

This is not a reality I want to live.


Hi five-finger-hand

I understand this feeling.

I also can no longer multitask the simplest things like stir oatmeal and make toast at same time. I always forget the toast. I also always forget to turn the stove off. I often forget the name of some object as well as people. At first I feared I was in Alzhmeirs. Even though I forget and have trouble holding any information for more than (sometimes a few seconds or more) I eventually remember, Alzhemier patients don't remember later, as I understand.

I too need to keep hoping that eventually this fog and memory problem will clear up. Not believing this is not an option.


You mention that this is not a reality you want to live. This I totally understand for the same reason and more. I have been told I will lose my eye sight and have been experiencing a few episodes of waking up with worse vision than the day before. That is very scary to me. Along with a bad memory, no sense of smell (asnomic) , my fingers going crooked from arthritis, and losing hair, I totally understand how you feel at this moment. I'm losing my senses.

Babydoll is right in that we have to stop focusing on what we cannot do (right now) and find a passion that you can do and love. For me that was discovering I enjoy learning to read music and play piano. Now I'm not good yet, but I am very much enjoying learning and playing for my enjoyment. In the future, if I can't see the keys even, I can still learn by ear, be creative and have fun.

Have you considered learning to play guitar or some other musical instrument? Just for the fun of it. How about another hobby that would make you feel creative or fulfilled?

I heard the learning and playing music is very good for the brain because you have a goal, practice persevering and learn a chunk at a time. In the meantime you compete only against yourself but without stress as this is something you totally love. I don't check to see improvement every day but only every few months, that way I am more likely to see improvement. My only goal is to learn well enough to be able to play by ear while I still have enough sight.

Out of every negative we can find something to take from it and turn it into a very good thing rather than letting it totally defeat us. Try looking at these negative things we have no control over as a challenge to use it to discover something that will neutralize the negative effect and give you new passion for something you had no clue would be something you could be passionate about.

It is so easy for any of us to feel defeated and that is why we need others in our situation (who truly understand) to encourage us, and give us hope and let us know we are not alone in our feelings and that we will be conquerors.

That's what this forum is about.

I heard there was a new drug approved for Alzhmeirs that can stop the damage and even bring the person back to a previous lucid state. You don't know what's around the corner so it's a way to early to give up.

I feel much better and more hopeful after several people from the forum responded to my posts. I am very touched that they care and take the time to help.

Take care and keep posting and you will soon be encouraging others,

Anne

[RonS]

OK, I'll repeat myself.

GO TO A NEUROLOGIST.

There could be any number of things going on, perhaps more than one. Some might be very fixable and/or reversible, but time might be of the essence. Really.

Please?