Can someone explain to me why the xPAP industry seems to want its patients to think that they have some kind of problem that laypeople just won't understand?
In particular I'm talking about the software made by the manufacturers for analysis of treatment data. I called cpap.com to find out if they have ResScan 3.5 yet. They said they do not; they are still carrying 3.3 (which I am using). Okay, I decided to call ResMed to see if 3.5 has been made available to the U.S. market.
It is currently available in the U.S. market. I asked the nice lady if she could identify a sales location (online or otherwise) for its purchase. She put me on hold for a bit, and then came back and asked if I was a patient or clinician. I was honest and said patient, and she started treating me like I was a helpless person trying to dismantle a neutron bomb. "Oh, that's just for clinicians. It's meant for their use." I explained that I am very involved in understanding my own care and treatment, and that so far have found 3.3 to be essentially a trivial application to understand. She actually paused at that point as though she was surprised that a subhuman could figure out how to use their oh-so-complex software!
I've been participating here long enough to see that this is not an isolated case. Many of you out there have written stories amounting to the same thing - from your DMEs and physicians. We're too unenlightened to even participate in our own treatment. "Oh, you can't actually be told how to use the very nasty hidden features of your xPAP! You might snore!"
I just don't get it. I have other severe diseases (Type 1 diabetes and cardiovascular) in which my docs can (and are happy to) work with me as a knowledgeable partner. I can do irreversible damage to my body with a mistake in my insulin dosage. I can buy a device that will let me asses my own A1c - and my doc is confident in my understanding how to deal with the results - but the xPAP industry (medical and commercial) wants us to think this is some kind of black magic. What's wrong with these people?
Rant mode on
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NightHawkeye
- Posts: 2431
- Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2005 11:55 am
- Location: Iowa - The Hawkeye State
Think mind-set, Tony. It wasn't very long ago that you had no legal right to any of your medical records. That mind-set still pervades the medical community.
Some of the details which directly address your question are as follows:
1) The FDA does not require a prescription for any xPAP device (or, for that matter, most non-invasive medical devices).
2) The FDA "allows" each manufacturer of a "medical" (wink, wink) device to specify that it be available by prescription only, if the manufacturer cannot provide adequate instructions for lay-person use of the device. (Ever wonder how the same exact oximeter can be sold both as a "sports" device and as a prescription only medical device?)
3) Product liability laws for prescription devices provide substantial protection to the manufacturer. All instruction for proper use is ostensibly provided by the prescribing physician. (If you didn't get adequate instructions, then take the matter up with your physician. )
As for the software, I suppose the thinking (if there is any) at ResMed must run along the line that by making the software available to the patient, then they would need to make full instructions available to the patient also, but, by definition, they can't do that.
On the other hand, maybe it's just draconian control of information flow, the way many such things are handled within the medical community.
Regards,
Bill
Some of the details which directly address your question are as follows:
1) The FDA does not require a prescription for any xPAP device (or, for that matter, most non-invasive medical devices).
2) The FDA "allows" each manufacturer of a "medical" (wink, wink) device to specify that it be available by prescription only, if the manufacturer cannot provide adequate instructions for lay-person use of the device. (Ever wonder how the same exact oximeter can be sold both as a "sports" device and as a prescription only medical device?)
3) Product liability laws for prescription devices provide substantial protection to the manufacturer. All instruction for proper use is ostensibly provided by the prescribing physician. (If you didn't get adequate instructions, then take the matter up with your physician. )
As for the software, I suppose the thinking (if there is any) at ResMed must run along the line that by making the software available to the patient, then they would need to make full instructions available to the patient also, but, by definition, they can't do that.
On the other hand, maybe it's just draconian control of information flow, the way many such things are handled within the medical community.
Regards,
Bill
Two words Tony: Power and Liability
If they know it and you don't, it keeps you dependent on them. They have power over you, which for some is why they get up in the morning and come to work, just so they can feel important. They can also keep you coming back again and again to make adjustments for you, billing you and your insurance each time. The medical profession has lots of caring and kind people working in it who want to serve their patients and help improve people's lives, and God bless them for it. But there are also a bunch of (insert degrogatory expletive here) who are either just collecting a paycheck or feeding their ego.
It is also unfortunately true that there are loads of people in this country who will sue anyone at the drop of a hat hoping for a big payday. So if they tell you how to track your data or adjust your own machine, and you do something stupid they could still be sued. Very frustrating.
If they know it and you don't, it keeps you dependent on them. They have power over you, which for some is why they get up in the morning and come to work, just so they can feel important. They can also keep you coming back again and again to make adjustments for you, billing you and your insurance each time. The medical profession has lots of caring and kind people working in it who want to serve their patients and help improve people's lives, and God bless them for it. But there are also a bunch of (insert degrogatory expletive here) who are either just collecting a paycheck or feeding their ego.
It is also unfortunately true that there are loads of people in this country who will sue anyone at the drop of a hat hoping for a big payday. So if they tell you how to track your data or adjust your own machine, and you do something stupid they could still be sued. Very frustrating.
It makes it easier to collect the eggs, if you keep the door closed on the chicken coop.
The government counts on us being sheep, we are taken in all year for daily trimming, and we get a main shearing on April 15.
We work to make money, they work to take our money. It seems that there are more of them than us, or they are better at fleeceing us that we are at producing fleece. Jim
The government counts on us being sheep, we are taken in all year for daily trimming, and we get a main shearing on April 15.
We work to make money, they work to take our money. It seems that there are more of them than us, or they are better at fleeceing us that we are at producing fleece. Jim
Use data to optimize your xPAP treatment!
"The art of medicine consists in amusing the patient while nature cures the disease." Voltaire
"The art of medicine consists in amusing the patient while nature cures the disease." Voltaire
I know my DME and doc did not even tell me I could access my own data off of my machine. They said I had to come back to them and have them do it. I was furious when I found out this was not the case as I think they just wanted me to come back so the could bill my insurance comapny for a visit. I went several years without having accurate data that could have really helped me get better treatment. Turns out I learned how to use my machine from the wonderful people on this forum.
Re: Rant mode on
[quote="tony22"]Can someone explain to me why the xPAP industry seems to want its patients to think that they have some kind of problem that laypeople just won't understand?
In particular I'm talking about the software made by the manufacturers for analysis of treatment data. I called cpap.com to find out if they have ResScan 3.5 yet. They said they do not; they are still carrying 3.3 (which I am using). Okay, I decided to call ResMed to see if 3.5 has been made available to the U.S. market.
It is currently available in the U.S. market. I asked the nice lady if she could identify a sales location (online or otherwise) for its purchase. She put me on hold for a bit, and then came back and asked if I was a patient or clinician. I was honest and said patient, and she started treating me like I was a helpless person trying to dismantle a neutron bomb. "Oh, that's just for clinicians. It's meant for their use." I explained that I am very involved in understanding my own care and treatment, and that so far have found 3.3 to be essentially a trivial application to understand. She actually paused at that point as though she was surprised that a subhuman could figure out how to use their oh-so-complex software!
I've been participating here long enough to see that this is not an isolated case. Many of you out there have written stories amounting to the same thing - from your DMEs and physicians. We're too unenlightened to even participate in our own treatment. "Oh, you can't actually be told how to use the very nasty hidden features of your xPAP! You might snore!"
I just don't get it. I have other severe diseases (Type 1 diabetes and cardiovascular) in which my docs can (and are happy to) work with me as a knowledgeable partner. I can do irreversible damage to my body with a mistake in my insulin dosage. I can buy a device that will let me asses my own A1c - and my doc is confident in my understanding how to deal with the results - but the xPAP industry (medical and commercial) wants us to think this is some kind of black magic. What's wrong with these people?
In particular I'm talking about the software made by the manufacturers for analysis of treatment data. I called cpap.com to find out if they have ResScan 3.5 yet. They said they do not; they are still carrying 3.3 (which I am using). Okay, I decided to call ResMed to see if 3.5 has been made available to the U.S. market.
It is currently available in the U.S. market. I asked the nice lady if she could identify a sales location (online or otherwise) for its purchase. She put me on hold for a bit, and then came back and asked if I was a patient or clinician. I was honest and said patient, and she started treating me like I was a helpless person trying to dismantle a neutron bomb. "Oh, that's just for clinicians. It's meant for their use." I explained that I am very involved in understanding my own care and treatment, and that so far have found 3.3 to be essentially a trivial application to understand. She actually paused at that point as though she was surprised that a subhuman could figure out how to use their oh-so-complex software!
I've been participating here long enough to see that this is not an isolated case. Many of you out there have written stories amounting to the same thing - from your DMEs and physicians. We're too unenlightened to even participate in our own treatment. "Oh, you can't actually be told how to use the very nasty hidden features of your xPAP! You might snore!"
I just don't get it. I have other severe diseases (Type 1 diabetes and cardiovascular) in which my docs can (and are happy to) work with me as a knowledgeable partner. I can do irreversible damage to my body with a mistake in my insulin dosage. I can buy a device that will let me asses my own A1c - and my doc is confident in my understanding how to deal with the results - but the xPAP industry (medical and commercial) wants us to think this is some kind of black magic. What's wrong with these people?
Re: Rant mode on
I'm with you, schleima. For people like us it's almost funny. And alnhwrd, I agree with you completely, yet at the same time there are docs who work in partnership with their patients. I may be an odd case, but in no way do I feel any less of a need to see my specialty docs who treat me as an intelligent consumer. If anything, I look forward to my visits with them. Then again I haven't had any cause to sue anybody yet .schleima wrote:You've expressed my concern exactly. I too am a Type 1 diabetic, on an insulin pump with a continuous glucose monitor. I am used to taking responsibility for my health on a day-to-day basis (or night-to-night, as the case may be). I take real issue with this untrue notion that somehow this breathing machine is more dangerous to tweak than insulin and BG levels.
schleima, do me a favor and PM me. I'd like to know what continuous monitoring system you are using and how it's working out.
Yes Tony, you are right, lots of good docs, and other medical pros, who really want to help and work with their patients. They are shining stars in the field. Thanks for pointing that out.
It really does seem strange that we can drive cars, boats and planes, operate heavy machinery, and do a host of other things without harming ourselves, but people think we can hurt ourselves if we track our data and adjust our own machines.
It really does seem strange that we can drive cars, boats and planes, operate heavy machinery, and do a host of other things without harming ourselves, but people think we can hurt ourselves if we track our data and adjust our own machines.
amen brother. I just saw a report on TV that they're spending 30 million in east BUFU somewhere to search for a woodpecker they thought was extinct. All the while, the IRS constantly harasses small businesses and average citizens. Trust me, having dealt with the IRS as a business owner, you are GUILTY until THEY say you're innocent. It's no wonder the elites hate the 2nd amendment so much. Sooner or later, people are going to turn off american idol and realize how out of control Gov't has gotten.Goofproof wrote:It makes it easier to collect the eggs, if you keep the door closed on the chicken coop.
The government counts on us being sheep, we are taken in all year for daily trimming, and we get a main shearing on April 15.
We work to make money, they work to take our money. It seems that there are more of them than us, or they are better at fleeceing us that we are at producing fleece. Jim
Oh well, sorry for the off-topic rant!
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Shilohcane
- Posts: 78
- Joined: Mon May 05, 2008 4:34 pm
tony22
I found your thread on my same rant about ResMed's software ResScan 3.5. Had I known they wouldn't sell me their software before I got my S8 AutoSet II I would have never gone with ReScan.
I will start sending them e-mails and telling them what I think but if I had it to do over I wouldn't have got a ResMed that doesn't give me access to software.
I found your thread on my same rant about ResMed's software ResScan 3.5. Had I known they wouldn't sell me their software before I got my S8 AutoSet II I would have never gone with ReScan.
I will start sending them e-mails and telling them what I think but if I had it to do over I wouldn't have got a ResMed that doesn't give me access to software.
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DreamStalker
- Posts: 7509
- Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2006 9:58 am
- Location: Nowhere & Everywhere At Once
You can buy 3.3 here : https://www.cpap.com/productpage/2596Shilohcane wrote:tony22
I found your thread on my same rant about ResMed's software ResScan 3.5. Had I known they wouldn't sell me their software before I got my S8 AutoSet II I would have never gone with ReScan.
I will start sending them e-mails and telling them what I think but if I had it to do over I wouldn't have got a ResMed that doesn't give me access to software.
I doubt there is much difference between 3.3 and 3.5
Is there some kind of incompatability between 3.3 and S8 II's?
EDIT: Uhhh ... never mind, I just located the answer to my own ignorance
President-pretender, J. Biden, said "the DNC has built the largest voter fraud organization in US history". Too bad they didn’t build the smartest voter fraud organization and got caught.
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