Mouth Breathing.. what are you trying to avoid?

Needsdecaf · Post by **Needsdecaf** » Thu May 29, 2008 2:17 pm

Well, I am going back to my Opus after having given my Liberty a run. For me, it is just too uncomfortable for day to day usage. I don't like having my lips be numb from dehydration until 3:00 in the afternoon, and my tongue feel like I just licked a sandpaper lollipop.

So I know that I have a "bit" of mouth leaking. From my graphs it's not too bad. I've tried a couple of things...taping, which wasn't super successful due to not really reducing the amount of mouth leakage. Polident I haven't gotten to seal up properly yet (what am I doing wrong). I haven't tried a chin strap yet.

So in doing my research here through the FAQ, collective wisdom and back posts, there is a lot of info on mouth taping / polident and chin straps. But what exactly are we trying to avoid? No, let me re-phrase that. I know we are trying to avoid air leaking out the mouth. But in order to prevent that, are we talking about trying to seal the mouth so no air comes out? Or to prevent the jaw from dropping open so that our throats don't open up?

I would suspect it is the latter. Unless the tape you use seals your lips 100%, and the tape itself is completely non-porus, pressurized air in your mouth will escape. Also, using a chinstrap wouldn't be effective at all, since your lips could part and the air could blow out from between your teeth.

So which one is it? Or is it both?

I'm going to try a "home made" chinstrap tonight to see how that works. Basically one of my wife's ear protectors she uses in the winter (think stretchy fleece) fits well, but is on the tight side. I will try that to see if it does anything.

Thanks for your help!

Gerald · Post by **Gerald** » Thu May 29, 2008 2:36 pm

Decaf.......

I tried the chin strap....and it didn't help me.

I have finally resorted to taping......and it's working just fine.

I'm using 2" 3M Blue Delicate Release masking tape....available at Lowe's paint department. I've tested the medical tape....and the blue masking tape works better for me.

In addition to tape, I have a band of panty-hose tights that I wear over the tape. That band goes around my jaw area....adding slight pressure to the tape....to assist the mild adhesive. I have attached a positioning band from an area just ahead of one ear....going over the top of my head...to the corresponding point (just ahead of my ear) on the other side of my face. This "over the top" band helps maintain position.

I use full legs (double layer) from panty hose tights....and I use hot glue instead of trying to sew it. Sewing is difficult....and time consuming.

I've been taping for at least 6-months or so.....and I have experienced no difficulty.

My AHI is holding at around an average of about 0.5 or less....and most of the time I'm at around 0.2 or 0.3 AHI.

Now that I've got everything "tweaked" and adjusted, I'm having no problems......and I actually look forward to slapping on the tape, hooking up the hose, and getting some good sleep.

Gerald

Goofproof · Post by **Goofproof** » Thu May 29, 2008 2:41 pm

The whole idea of preventing mouthleaking is to keep air from exiting from the mouth, ideally to do this the mouth needs to be closed also.

In your Encore Pro your lead numbers in the dailies should be what your mask is suppose to vent at your pressure, that number is found in the papers shipped with the mask. Jim

Needsdecaf · Post by **Needsdecaf** » Thu May 29, 2008 2:58 pm

[quote="Goofproof"]The whole idea of preventing mouthleaking is to keep air from exiting from the mouth, ideally to do this the mouth needs to be closed also.

In your Encore Pro your lead numbers in the dailies should be what your mask is suppose to vent at your pressure, that number is found in the papers shipped with the mask. Jim

Goofproof · Post by **Goofproof** » Thu May 29, 2008 5:48 pm

If you leak baseline stays low all night, you aren't mouthleaking. Mouthleaking will most likely happen when you get in deeper levels of sleep or when on your back. The way I have my mask set up (MOD), my base is 25LPM @ 15 CM. On a fair night my avg leak rate is 27 to 28 LPM. Jim

I have modified my mask leak rate to be lower than the specs.

oakmont · Post by **oakmont** » Fri May 30, 2008 8:00 am

i use the resmed liberty and recently i got my dme to give me the large size (they originally fitted me with the small) and that made a HUGE difference.. i've had it 2 days now and for the past 2 nights have been leak free the whole nite.. it sounds like your mask was too small for you

Needsdecaf · Post by **Needsdecaf** » Fri May 30, 2008 8:26 am

[quote="Gerald"]Decaf.......

I tried the chin strap....and it didn't help me.

I have finally resorted to taping......and it's working just fine.

I'm using 2" 3M Blue Delicate Release masking tape....available at Lowe's paint department. I've tested the medical tape....and the blue masking tape works better for me.

In addition to tape, I have a band of panty-hose tights that I wear over the tape. That band goes around my jaw area....adding slight pressure to the tape....to assist the mild adhesive. I have attached a positioning band from an area just ahead of one ear....going over the top of my head...to the corresponding point (just ahead of my ear) on the other side of my face. This "over the top" band helps maintain position.

I use full legs (double layer) from panty hose tights....and I use hot glue instead of trying to sew it. Sewing is difficult....and time consuming.

I've been taping for at least 6-months or so.....and I have experienced no difficulty.

My AHI is holding at around an average of about 0.5 or less....and most of the time I'm at around 0.2 or 0.3 AHI.

Now that I've got everything "tweaked" and adjusted, I'm having no problems......and I actually look forward to slapping on the tape, hooking up the hose, and getting some good sleep.

Gerald

DreamStalker · Post by **DreamStalker** » Fri May 30, 2008 8:47 am

If you use duct tape, be careful taking it off so you don't end up with a bloody lip

Gerald · Post by **Gerald** » Fri May 30, 2008 2:06 pm

Decaf....

3M BLUE 2" Delicate Release "painter's tape" it is! From Lowe's paint department!

When you experiment with it, I suggest that you not remove it by pulling from a direction 90 degrees to your face. That sort of pulls the skin uncomfortably.

However, if you remove the tape by pulling parallel to your face, it "unzips" nicely....with almost no discomfort.

The slight pressure of the panty-hose tights on top of the tape helps the adhesive do a better job....thereby preventing "blow-outs".

Basically, I've achieved a balance of low cost, comfort, and performance that is best for me.

Gerald

Goofproof · Post by **Goofproof** » Fri May 30, 2008 2:17 pm

And are color correct, with your PJ's with the Blue Ducks on them. Jim

socknitster · Post by **socknitster** » Sun Jun 01, 2008 8:28 am

It is different for everyone. Some people's jaws may drop open and for them the chin strap works. I, however, puff air thru my closed lips even with my jaw tightly closed. Goes right thru my teeth. If I want the comfort of nasal-only interface it has to be tape. And actually, to be completely honest I haven't yet found a ff mask that fits my particular facial geometry perfectly. I have a recessed jaw and that makes fit terrible of most of them. The hans rudolph, being very flexible, works best, but still isn't as good as my swift II with tape.

No easy answers with cpap, sorry.

jen