Sleep Study Confusion

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
sleepyinO
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Sleep Study Confusion

Post by sleepyinO » Wed May 14, 2008 7:19 pm

I recently underwent a sleep study and just got the results from my doctor today. It seems to be pretty vague, and even contradictory, in my opinion. My "regular" doctor wasn't available to go over the results with me (she's battling breast cancer) and the nurse I spoke to couldn't even really make sense of it, so she just gave it to me.

I have several questions about the information in it. I would appreciate any expertise that any of you can provide. The sleep study is here: http://sleepyino.googlepages.com/.

These are the specific questions I have, but you are all free to comment on any of it:

Page 1

1. What is the Epworth Sleepiness Scale, and where does 12 rank on it?

Page 2

1. What exactly does arousal index mean?

2. I believe I understand the sleep stage information, but is the report saying that I didn't enter REM sleep at all??

3. Apparently I had 38 RERA's, but no sleep apnea? What does this mean? What is the difference between an RERA and apnea? Does it mean that I have trouble breathing but don't stop breathing?

4. What does all the talk about indexes (indices?) mean here?

Page 3

1. Any comments on the 23 periodic limb movements?

2. What does the information listed under "IMPRESSION" mean?

Page 4

1. "The patient might be a candidate for a dental device or surgery." ....Gee, that's not vague! What device? What surgery?

2. "The sleep apnea was so mild" - "very mild Obstructive Sleep Apnea" ....The sleep study says that I had 0 apneas, but the doctor says I have mild OSA???

3. The information about the limb movements leads me to believe this is abnormal...any comments?

4. "a number of arousals each hour not accounted for by respiratory events" OK...now what?

5. What the heck does "education in sleep hygiene mean"? I'm a "dirty" sleeper? LOL

Page 5

Any explanation of the graphs would be appreciated...

OK, that's it. Hopefully, this isn't information overload, especially for my first post. This site has a lot of useful information and you all seem to "know your stuff", so hopefully you can help. (I know you aren't doctors, and I should probably find a doctor to explain this to me, but I'd like your opinion(s)).

Oh yeah, and I have to mention:

I asked the nurse to go ahead and get me set up for a CPAP (I guess, APAP, in this case?) and I found it funny talking to her after reading the information here about all of the BS that goes on between the doctor, the DME provider, etc. I asked her if my doctor could write me a prescription for the CPAP machine, so that I could get one to test it out. She said "We'll have to get ahold of one of the companies we deal with and get it set up. We can't give you a paper prescription, that won't get you anything." MMMMMMMMhmmmmmmmmm.... LOL

Thank you all in advance for your help!!!

Brian

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CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): cpap machine, Arousal, CPAP, DME, Prescription, APAP


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Slinky
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Post by Slinky » Wed May 14, 2008 7:28 pm

Well, having not yet checked out your info at the URL you gave I will respond to your last question.

Just the script will not get you an xPAP from a local DME supplier. They also need a copy of the sleep study report.

HOWEVER, just the script (and some money) WILL get you an xPAP and other needed supplies from an online DME supplier.

And to add a precaution: call your insurance company yourself and ask them what local DME CPAP suppliers they are contracted with. Hopefully, you will have the option of more than one. W/more than one you can do some "shopping" and "negotiating" to get the equipment you want.

Just do a google search on Epworth Sleepiness Scale. Its just a short quiz that gives them some idea of your symptoms that might indicate you are a likely OSA sufferer.


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NightHawkeye
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Post by NightHawkeye » Wed May 14, 2008 8:45 pm

Hi Brian. Welcome to the forum.

It looks to me like you're processing the report fairly accurately. The problem is that you got no REM sleep due to the frequent arousals. However, you had no "scorable" apneas or hypopneas. That doesn't mean, however, that there weren't some flow limitations which caused you distress. The sleep lab apparently thinks the arousals were respiratory related. I didn't see anything definite though, so perhaps it's a guess on their part, but I'd give them the benefit of doubt. Presumably, they've seen folks in similar circumstances before.

However, there is obvious doubt as to how to fix the problem for you. That's why APAP is indicated as a test possibility to see if it might benefit you.

Give APAP a try. It certainly can't hurt. Your lack of REM sleep is a problem which needs to get fixed.

As for dental devices, I have been using one. They help some folks in specific situations. Others indicate no benefit at all. I seem to get more benefit for TMJ issues than relieving apnea. Other than the cost it doesn't hurt to try one. Dental devices simply hold the lower jaw in a relatively fixed position to keep the airway open as much as possible. So far as I know, there's no way of knowing whether a dental device will benefit you without trying one.

As for limb movements, could be related to circulatory issues. I'm sure there are other possibilities as well.

Sleep hygiene simply means maintaining a consistent sleep schedule with an adequate numbers of hours asleep. Of course, when you're constantly being awakened that's a lot easier for the physician to say, than for you to accomplish. Hopefully, the APAP or dental device will provide some relief for you.

Hope this helps a little. Once again, welcome to the forum.

Regards,
Bill


sleepyinO
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Post by sleepyinO » Wed May 14, 2008 10:03 pm

Thank you both for your help!

jules
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Post by jules » Wed May 14, 2008 10:49 pm

Look at the information on UARS at http://www.clevelandclinicmeded.com/med ... definition

Don't know if this does or doesn't match you.

I looked at your report briefly a while ago - no apneas and no hypoapneas does not give
a diagnosis of OSA. However CPAP is used to treat UARS. Insurance might balk at
paying for CPAP for UARS; they sure will for an AHI under 5 if the diagnosis is OSA and
in some cases they want an AHI of 15 w/ OSA to pay for CPAP. The actual details you
can check with your own insurance provider.

Some of the statements in your report I assume were pretty standard where the doc indicated to include this sentence and that one and not these other ones.

This is the document that governs my coverage for OSA - you might want to scan the
first 4 pages or so

You should also try to find your own insurance's criteria on the final diagnosis your doc
will write on the paperwork for the APAP.

CIGNA policy on OSA


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Snoredog
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Post by Snoredog » Thu May 15, 2008 1:45 am

My opinion:

Severity of OSA does NOT warrant use of CPAP. While you did not get any REM that may be a result of too much caffeine use. Spend a lot of time in front of a computer monitor? That may be a contributing factor.

You have PLM but it is mild.

UARS: I see NO indication of UARS, they like to toss that around when they don't know what's up with you. But there is NO recording of Microarousals or spontaneous arousals of any sort on your report to indicate that.

I would find out if the lab is even capable of diagnosing UARS or having the equipment to detect it and having a tech experienced enough to spot the symptoms.

While your summary report looks professional it appears to be missing a lot on the microarousal front unless I totally missed something from your report.

I would expect to see like 30 unexplained arousals per hour to be suspect of UARS, I simply didn't see it on your report.

My suggestion: See your GP for some blood work to rule out anything with blood contributing to fatigue including an EKG if you haven't had one in some time.

Next, it appears you are not getting enough deep sleep including REM, you would have to make some lifestyle changes to improve that, like backing off the caffeine drinks, possibly trying supplemental melatonin for a short period, but you are young so I would first look at lifestyle changes maybe more exercise. The melatonin would help you maintain sleep and possibly reduce the interruptions to sleep. But I don't really like suggesting melatonin if you are under 40, when you get older and those melatonin levels naturally drop off its okay but when you are young you are screwing that up with lifestyle (in my opinion).

cut back on the caffeine and more exercise would probably help you the most, I'd do that before I'd commit myself to a uncomfortable mask and machine for the rest of my life. instead of buying a xpap machine, buy a stationary bicycle or treadmill.

Sleep Hygiene: No it doesn't mean you are dirty, it means you have poor sleep habits (i.e. random sleep hours, too much TV, too much computer, lack of exercise, etc., etc., etc.) Here it is easier to give you the link and let you read it yourself, but basically what it means is what you do during the day can impact your sleep "quality" at night, so with some lifestyle changes you can improve your sleep and your health:

http://www.umm.edu/sleep/sleep_hyg.htm

someday science will catch up to what I'm saying...

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Slinky
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Post by Slinky » Thu May 15, 2008 6:10 am

Snoredog wrote:My opinion:

... While your summary report looks professional it appears to be missing a lot on the microarousal front unless I totally missed something from your report. ...
Actually, I got the impression that your report was the result of a "lazy" doctor using a "canned" form and just dropping in a few actual stats from your study. I've never seen a dictated report that wasted so much paper to say so little.

I'd insist on a sit-down w/the doctor to discuss those results until I understood them fully. W/a little knowledge and education gleaned from this forum you should be able to tell w/in a few minutes just how knowledgeable and experienced this "sleep doctor" is.

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sleepyinO
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Post by sleepyinO » Thu May 15, 2008 11:29 pm

Thank you all for your responses.

I know I definitely need to exercise and cut back on caffeine. However, I didn't have any caffeine for 12 hours before my study, so would it still be a culprit?

I am going to call the sleep center and ask them why I got a "fill in the blanks" report.

I thought the sleep study would give me some answers, but all it has done is make me more confused.

I know I'm not sleeping well, which the sleep study confirmed, but I have no idea why.

Does anyone know if there is a resource online to find "sleep doctors"? I think I might visit one to see what they think.

Thanks again!

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Slinky
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Post by Slinky » Fri May 16, 2008 1:13 am

No, caffeine more than 12 hours prior to your sleep evaluation should not have contributed to your poor sleep the night of your evaluation.

The recommendation is for a "trial" w/a loaner autoPAP for an at-home titration to see if CPAP therapy improves your sleep and your PLMs. This is a good suggestion in that it eliminates the sleep distractions of an in-lab titration. And costs substantially less.

And if the results are inconclusive, you will be more comfortable going into an in-lab titration having gone thru the in-lab evaluation and at home acclimation to CPAP and mask.

It is also recommended that you be seen by an ENT and evaluated for things like a deviated septum, enlarged tonsils, etc. and by a good dentist/orthodontist for jaw abnormalities that might be correctable by a dental device or even surgery.

Another consideration recommended is a workup by a gastroenterologist for reflux/GERD (heartburn) and a blood draw for iron levels, etc. that could contribute to the leg movements.

Any or all of the above could account for your poor sleep. And in going over that report again I realized that this was not all that bad a "canned" report after all. It appears to be a combination of the scored data summary w/condensed graphs and instead of the doctor dictating a separate report his opinion was incorporated into the data summary.

I wouldn't be too quick to jump the gun here. I'd go along w/the recommendation of a trial w/the autoPAP as suggested. And I would also follow up on the suggestions of physical causes of your sleep disturbances such as reflux, enlarged tonsils, etc.

Remember we are all "patieints" here and most of us have had less than desirable experiences w/sleep professionals and local DME suppliers and thus tend to be somewhat overly skeptical and critical.


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Snoredog
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Post by Snoredog » Fri May 16, 2008 1:28 am

[quote="Slinky"]No, caffeine more than 12 hours prior to your sleep evaluation should not have contributed to your poor sleep the night of your evaluation.

The recommendation is for a "trial" w/a loaner autoPAP for an at-home titration to see if CPAP therapy improves your sleep and your PLMs. This is a good suggestion in that it eliminates the sleep distractions of an in-lab titration. And costs substantially less.

And if the results are inconclusive, you will be more comfortable going into an in-lab titration having gone thru the in-lab evaluation and at home acclimation to CPAP and mask.

It is also recommended that you be seen by an ENT and evaluated for things like a deviated septum, enlarged tonsils, etc. and by a good dentist/orthodontist for jaw abnormalities that might be correctable by a dental device or even surgery.

Another consideration recommended is a workup by a gastroenterologist for reflux/GERD (heartburn) and a blood draw for iron levels, etc. that could contribute to the leg movements.

Any or all of the above could account for your poor sleep. And in going over that report again I realized that this was not all that bad a "canned" report after all. It appears to be a combination of the scored data summary w/condensed graphs and instead of the doctor dictating a separate report his opinion was incorporated into the data summary.

I wouldn't be too quick to jump the gun here. I'd go along w/the recommendation of a trial w/the autoPAP as suggested. And I would also follow up on the suggestions of physical causes of your sleep disturbances such as reflux, enlarged tonsils, etc.

Remember we are all "patieints" here and most of us have had less than desirable experiences w/sleep professionals and local DME suppliers and thus tend to be somewhat overly skeptical and critical.

someday science will catch up to what I'm saying...

countman88
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Post by countman88 » Fri May 16, 2008 2:28 am

I haven't read the report, or all of the replies in detail, but I would have thought it important for the lead up day to the sleep study being the same as any other day. ie. usual diet, alcohol/coffee intake, exercise, lead up sleep etc. Difficult for the study to detect an ongoing sleep problem if the night of the study is significantly different to normal?
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sleepyinO
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Post by sleepyinO » Fri May 16, 2008 11:10 am

Thanks for the advice.

I only had one arousal that was linked to PLM. I had 38 RERAs and the other +- 50 were "unexplained". I did wake up twice to go to the bathroom and there were two or three times, within the first hour, that one of my leads came off and they came in to reattach them.

I think I am going to follow Slinky's advice and try the APAP. I won't know if it will help unless I try it. Given the fact that I had 38 respiratory effort related arousals, maybe the APAP will help...

I do have enlarged tonsils, so I wouldn't be surprised if that is a contributing factor. I may also have GERD. There have been times when I have woken up having hiccups with stomach acid shooting up into my mouth.

I'll give the APAP a try and make an appointment with an ENT and GI doc. I'll let you all know how things go.

Thanks again for all of your help!

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NightHawkeye
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Post by NightHawkeye » Fri May 16, 2008 10:09 pm

sleepyinO wrote:I'll give the APAP a try and make an appointment with an ENT and GI doc. I'll let you all know how things go.

Thanks again for all of your help!
Good luck. Hopefully, the APAP will offer you some relief. It kinda sounds like a reasonable starting point, but may not be the final answer for you.

Regards,
Bill


Sleep Techy Here

Raw Data Info

Post by Sleep Techy Here » Sat May 17, 2008 1:33 am

I'm really surprised you were given your raw data on your Polysomnogram, simply because you are not trained as to reading it properly. Your MD should have thoroughly gone over your sleep study results with you!!! You mentioned something about finding a Sleep Physician? Did you not see a Board Certified Sleep Physician prior to having a sleep study? Was this an accredited lab that you had your sleep study done in? Just judging by what is on your raw data, according to the lab I work in, we would not have issued CPAP. There are, however, a few things that are concerning with your results:

No REM Sleep (which could be due to some medications --- OR because of the "first night effect" of being in a sleep lab)

Now, this lack of REM Sleep.... You could very well have some form of OSA that is REM Related. This is an unknown.


The Educate on Sleep Hygiene statement.... that just means that you need to follow a routine before bed. No caffeine, no strenuous exercise,ect.


sleepyinO
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Post by sleepyinO » Sat May 17, 2008 2:11 am

Thanks for the reply Sleep Techy.

While I am not trained to read a sleep study, I am able to understand the results. They just prove what I already knew, which is that I'm not sleeping well.

The frustrating part is what appears to be the laziness of the doctor. It seems like his report is nothing but "your data states this, so we'll put this sentence in the recommendations."

No, I did not see a Sleep Physician before having the sleep study. My GP referred me to the sleep clinic. I started to setup a sleep study once before and the sleep clinic was going to have me see another doctor before the study, but this place didn't. I don't know if the sleep lab I used is accredited. Where can I find that out? It was at Alegant Lakeside Hospital in Omaha, NE.

With regard to CPAP: This is one of the things that I am so confused about. The data states that I didn't have any apneas, yet the recommendations state that I have mild OSA.

I think I am going to call the sleep lab and ask them to explain the recommendations to me. I'm sure my doctor would have gone over the results with me, if they made any sense.

I'm really surprised that they charge $2000 for a sleep study, and what you get out of it is a sloppy report that is just thrown together...