just prescribed Effexor-really freaked to take-any thoughts?

[Guest]

Hiya.

I promised myself I wouldn't get involved in deadend arguments with dickheads - or, indeed, call anyone a dickhead. But how else can one respond to the mindless and soulless ranting from JeffH. I'm sorry, mate, you might be a wonderful person in real life, but to write in such ignorance about a truly terrible disease is beyond amazing and unbelievable, it is just downright disgusting.

Shame on you - both for your comments, and the smart-arsery that caused you to continue an argument which was clearly unnecessary. Sadly, my comment will probably just trigger you to continue your mindless ranting - but so be it.

If you think clinical depression is like feeling sad, or self-piteous then you've clearly never experienced it, and you must hope you never do. I am a chronic sufferer, and have been since I was about 15 (a typical age for it to commence, by the way) - although some of the signs were there before that. It is possibly genetic, certainly some of the traits run in my family, and several of my family members have suicided.

Feeling sad or upset over a lost love affair or a lost job or whatever can in itself be painful, but it passes. Chronic depression, which can be triggered in us sufferers by the same kinds of events, does not pass so easily. My worst attacks include uncontrollable tears (this in a proud, self contained, highly self controlled, and independent man), waking up to a world made of black glue through which I have to wade, constant thoughts of self destruction (and being a happy partner and father, the constant guilt that goes with the thoughts of leaving my family behind). It drags on, and on, and on. I hid it for decades, even from those closest to me - often by distancing myself, so I would not be discovered, and my shame at having a mental illness known to all.

Have you experienced this, JeffH? If not, then shut the hell up, because you have no idea what you're writing about. Your lack of empathy is not all that surprising, many lack empathy, but your lack of kindness is shaming.

Regards,

GrizzlyBear

[GrizzlyBear]

Oh, damn and blast. I did it again. The last post was me!

[ColinP]

Just a quick point on the issue of proving that you have a chemical imbalance in your brain.

As T&T said, these imbalances aren't reflected in your blood. When I was diagnosed with depression, I didn't want to be tied to a drug for the foreseeable future without proof that there was a measurable imbalance, so I found a good neurologist and went to have my brain checked. It was a very worthwhile visit, but not because he could provide me with proof - he couldn't. Not without booking me into a hospital and inserting probes directly into the brain, which didn't sound particularly comfortable. As he explained, as long as you take the correct precautions not to abuse the medication, trying it to see if it helps is the only practical way of telling, but that there are so many people out there who are helped by anti-depressants.

GVD - your concern and the research you are doing tell me that you are unlikely to make the mistake of dropping it cold turkey, and that you will use the drug as prescribed.

Oh one more thing - to JeffH. You have nothing to add, know nothing of the issues involved, and are being deliberately offensive. Your attempts to offend are petty and don't actually offend me as much as your ignorance and your desire to flaunt it do.

Colin

[Rachael]

I would just add that going on one med for a while makes total sense, but if you feel at all worse don't fall down the rabbit hole of adding more meds, increasing doses, etc. I don't know what its like Down Under, but when I had problems with depression and went on an anti depressant next thing I knew I was on five or six meds to handle the "worsening" depression, and the side effects, etc. A psychiatrist friend in England couldn't believe the wrong headed approach my docs here in the US were taking.

The problems withdrawing from anti depressants are real, and can be very hard. I could go on, but I guess this isn't the place for anti-depressant horror stories.

A common sense approach and an honest assessment of risks and benefits will go a long way. Only you can know the risks of going without treatment, not me, not anyone on the thread. Figuring that out when you are in pain is hard. Keep your doses as low as you can to be effective, and rely on your support network.

Good luck, I am sorry you are having such a rough time.

[bookwyrm]

I took Effexor for 2 years...it saved my life! The only major side effect I had was a distinct queasy feeling the first couple of weeks...loss of appetite. I had absolutely no trouble stopping the medicine. I hope you find what works for you...there is always a trade off...but Effexor provided the help I needed. I didn't start CPAP until a year after I stopped the medicine.

[APN]

I think that an important point in taking an anti-depressant is remembering that the effect can be very different for different people. Taking Effexor, for instance, may cause anxiety as a side effect for one person, sleepiness for a second person, while a third person might have no side effects. In the same way, while a particular anti-depressant might be a lifesaver for one person, another person might find it doesn't help their depression or might even worsen it. A particular caution with Effexor is giving it to someone who has a history of bipolar disease or has had a manic episode (not needing sleep, racing thoughts, dramatically extreme behaviors and the like). While Effexor has been safely given to people with bipolar disorder or a history of mania, it increases the risk of precipitating or causing a manic episode. These are the kinds of issues that would make me cautious about having a general practitioner prescribing Effexor. I would prefer a consultation with a psychiatrist or at the very least having a general practioner consult with a psychiatrist prior to giving this med. At the same time, if you are already taking Effexor and are having no negative effects such as mania, then it is probably fine to continue with it. The increased risk of mania from Effexor is just that-a risk; it is not always going to happen even if the person has a history of bipolar disorder.

[lvehko]

There always have been, and there always will be, people who think that depression is just laziness, or feeling sorry for oneself, or something that we should just 'deal with.' Unfortunately, what this leads to is that people who have the illness are often quite hesitant to take medication, thinking that they just haven't tried hard enough, or are just being self-indulgent, or SOMETHING other than our brain chemistry is messed up. That kind of thinking kept me off medication and quite ill into my late 30's. At that point, I became so ill that I literally couldn't hold a job or take care of myself, and my choices were to be institutionalized or take medication. Naturally, I chose the medication, sure that I would have some kind of psychotic episode and end up institutionalized anyway. I didn't. I *did* have to try several meds before I found one that had a side-effect profile I could tolerate, but from the very first one I took (Prozac), it was clear to me that my problem was absolutely medical, and had nothing to do with my willpower or mindset or lack of discipline. Now, when I hear people say things like that, I just ignore them. It's hard for people who have never been clinically depressed to understand what it's really like, so it doesn't make any sense to try and explain it to them, if they aren't interested in knowing.

To the original poster, I hope that you'll have the courage to try the medication and see what it does for you. If it doesn't work, or it has undesirable effects, you can go off it, or try another. But pay attention to your own instincts about what's going on with you, and try not to let the opinions of other people sway you about what's 'right.' All medications carry some risk -- such is life in our age. If you are depressed, and medication helps you, take it, and nuts to anybody who tries to tell you you don't know what you're doing. You're the only one who does.

Min

[JeffH]

You "depressive's" are a kind lot. All I did was post my experience and got called an asshat and a dickhead. The following article expresses how I feel about this much better than I could put into words. He's a much better "diplomat" than I am.

Most of you read between the lines and read things I didn't say.

Good luck with your problems...and I mean that.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... inionsbox1

[sharon1965]

my own short-lived experiences with effexor were negative, but not so much because of the medication itself, but because of the laissez-faire manner in which my GP prescribed it to me: i was dx'd with fibromyalgia more than 12 years ago, and had managed reasonably well, making sure i got plenty of exercise and maintained a healthy diet; sleep continued to be an issue, but i chalked it up to the fact that fms is basically a sleep disorder, and this was something i'd have to accept...fast forward to 3 years ago, when i suddenly hit the dirt: the fatigue i was used to pushing myself through had turned into profound exhaustion, making it almost impossible for me to function; my normally positive disposition was becoming increasingly negative; my normally even mood was beginning to swing madly, causing tension and strain with my family and friends; i began, in spite of my efforts to remain active, to gain weight at an alarming speed, culminating in a 40lb gain in less than six months, causing me to go from a normal weight woman to an overweight woman in what felt like a heartbeat! all these things combined with my chronic pain condition,which was worsening day by day, made me break down in tears frightfully often... when i saw my GP and described these symptoms to her, she whipped out her pad and wrote me a prescription for pills i knew i didn't need, but she promised me that once we got my mood elevated, we could work on all the other 'physical' problems i was having...when i saw her for a check up 3 months later, she told me to eat less, move more and keep taking the pills!!! once i realized that my symptoms matched those of a person suffering from OSA, i weaned myself off the effexor (not so pleasant, let me tell ya), but not before spending five months on effexor with some pretty weird side effects, and the joy of gaining yet another 10 lbs...this is just my experience; it's not intended as an indictment of anyone who opts to use anti-depressants, but green velvet dragon did say that he or she had hoped cpap therapy would address depressive symptoms and my OWN experience is that it has, given enough time...

Relationships have been ending since the beginning of time. That is painful. Why would anyone take a pill trying to make that pain go away?

I don't get it.


JeffH

i also have to say that i don't think jeff was implying that GVD was having a "pity party"; i think he inferred from the original post that GVD's depression was situational as opposed to clinical, as he did state that his depression stemmed from relationship issues; i've participated in many threads with jeffh over the past year, and my experience with him is that he is a man of few words who is not afraid to express his opinion, and i think that's all he was doing...i also agree with him that he did not attack anyone, and that he, instead, is the one who has been attacked on this thread...i understand that it's a sensitive issue and that many of us could use some education around it, but name calling and attacking character has never gone very far toward educating someone...i believe this technique is called 'bullying'

just my two cents
sharon

[roster]

Just another man's opinion based on personal experience, JeffH and I rarely see eye-to-eye, but here I think it would be a mistake to overlook his comments.

I called the suicide hotline twice, spent a year in talk therapy and was prescribed Paxil, Prozac and Effexor. I had two GPs working on me plus a psychiatrist and a psychotherapist with a great reputation. All of this with disastrous results.

That is a brief but good article JeffH cited and quoting from it:

When you interview patients about how they got better, they hardly ever cite Prozac or Zyprexa or lithium. For that matter, they rarely cite a particular doctor or therapist or treatment program. Rather, they talk about a person who was kind to them when they were really down; they talk about the child they wanted to be a good parent to; they talk about God and spirituality; they talk about something that brought them pleasure even when they were cloaked in pain.

So how did I get better? I finally figured out I had severe obstructive sleep apnea, got a sleep study to confirm it and started cpap treatment. The cpap treatment is another long story of two botched titrations and how I finally figured out on my own the pressure I needed and some other things to sleep at night.

I am very suspicious of the medical profession and the huge quantities of anti-depressants prescribed, at least in the U.S. I am also very skeptical of the research that claims antidepressants properly balance brain chemistry.

There may be people who have "bad brain chemistry" and can benefit from antidepressants. But I bet if there are any, for every one of them, there are a thousand who are given antidepressants who have problems besides "bad brain chemistry".

Be kind and loving and forgiving. Develop close relationships. Eat healthily, have fun physical activities, enjoy nature, art, music. Ask God to draw you closer to Him. Become aware of the universe and our special and very temporary place in it.

You are likely carrying a heavy mental and physical burden caused by sleep apnea. So, keep at that cpap therapy. It is a difficult therapy for many of us and may take a long time to yield good results for your mental health. Best of luck on your journey.

[GrizzlyBear]

In my experience, if I get honest with myself, what I call depression is usually self-pity. When I make an effort to get off my pity pot, I feel better.

Of course, this is JeffH's assessment of his own condition. I don't want to get into a constantly and unedifyingly negative argument over this - but I would suggest that someone who wants to comment on a matter about which they clearly have limited knowledge and understanding could exercise greater restraint and empathy. The EXTREMELY clear implication I read in this is that he gets off his pity pot, so should other people, and then everyone will be OK.

If this is a misunderstanding on my part, I make no apology because he should take greater care with his statements. His comment appeared to be intentionally hurtful and ignorant and I am not yet convinced that it wasn't. To make a remark like that to a person who is suffering deep depression, which in this case has been brought on by a relationship difficulty, beggars belief.

I repeat that a lack of empathy does not really surprise me. The world is full of people who have difficulty empathising. But the lack of kindness shocks and disappoints me. I stick by my original 'dickead' assessment, at least in this case.

Of course, I don't know JeffH from a bar of soap. He may be a lovely bloke in other circumstances - and, indeed, be usually far from being a dickhead. However, his unwise, unnecessary and unkind statements reveal him in this case to at least be acting like a dickhead.

Of course, we all know the concerns regarding over-prescription of anti-depressants, and we all share them. But JeffH, your concerns could have been expressed in a much kinder and more effective manner than that which you chose - and, indeed, the continuing argumentatively-directed approach you still seem to adopt.

Yes, we all also know that depression is a condition which can be enhanced or triggered through lack of sleep, and conditions like OSA. But that is not the only causative factor. For many of us, cpap is not the answer, or at least not the only answer. Sometimes drug treatment helps, sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes counselling helps, sometimes it doesn't. Depression is still not a fully understood condition, and there may be a number of different forms of it. The blanket prescription of drugs is not only NOT the answer, it will create other problems.

Nonetheless, greenvelvetdragon was describing a severely depressive condition. The drug may help, and it does not look like a knee-jerk reaction by her doctor. It is worth at least a short tryout to see - although in my case, it took lexapro a couple of months to effect any obvious change (apart from loss of libido, which has happily improved!). Yes, as several of us suggested, other things should be done as well, and the impact of this particular drug should be VERY carefully monitored.

Regards,

GrizzlyBear

[TossinNTurnin]

You "depressive's" are a kind lot. All I did was post my experience and got called an asshat and a dickhead. The following article expresses how I feel about this much better than I could put into words. He's a much better "diplomat" than I am.

Most of you read between the lines and read things I didn't say.

Good luck with your problems...and I mean that.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... inionsbox1

Yes, we all know that anti-depressants can be over prescribed. What does that have to do with GVD's post? Zero, nothing.

So at first you simply made an insensitive comment.

Any suspicions some may have had in terms of your lack of understanding and callowness were confirmed in subsequent posts, such as when you used the term "pity pot".

You didn't not "merely" give your experience, your pretense that that's all it was is disingenuous at best. You made a snide, thoughtless remark (that had nothing to do with GVD's original post) and then went on to dig your self deeper into a hole with your further comments.

Trying to claim now that we all just misunderstood you and read something into your comments that weren't there, is hogwash.

GVD posted in the hopes of gaining support and understanding. Your posts offered none of that.

Like GrizzlyBear, I don't want to continue to get into a negative argument over this either. But it should be made clear that the problem here does not lie with your being "misunderstood". Trying to turn yourself into the victim here doesn't cut it.

A simple, "I'm sorry, I didn't realize." would suffice. But I won't hold my breath.

i also have to say that i don't think jeff was implying that GVD was having a "pity party"

Your right, he didn't imply it, he straight out said it. Why bring up his own tendency to have a "pity party" in the context of this thread if not to MORE than imply that it applied in this case?

When they can give a blood test and PROVE that your brain chemistry is screwed up, then I'll believe it. Until then, nope.

So, the intent was clear.

This thread was not a general discussion about the veracity of depression. It was a person in pain asking for support and understanding.

Jeff was not "attacked, he was called out on his inappropriate remarks and snarky attitude. Any negative feelings he's received were earned.

[TossinNTurnin]

Just another man's opinion based on personal experience, JeffH and I rarely see eye-to-eye, but here I think it would be a mistake to overlook his comments.

Then a simple, "Have you looked into other options?" would've sufficed.

So how did I get better? I finally figured out I had severe obstructive sleep apnea

Then likely you didn't have major clinical depression in the classic sense. You had a side effect of another medical issue. Sometimes these episodes are situational, and sometimes an initial "situational" depression is what sparks off a clinical form of depression, that occurs due to chemical imbalance unrelated to general health or "strength of character"

The reality is that for all the over-prescribing there is of anti-depressants, there is also a HUGE problem with depression being dismissed, undiagnosed and inadequately or completely un-treated. What alarms many experts more than over diagnosis is that depression is too often missed in those at risk of harming themselves. Some people are reluctant to get help, perhaps because they don't consider depression to be a legitimate medical condition. Are ashamed of it and fear people label them as being lazy or having a pity party.

Comments and terms like "pity pot" do not help anyone and in fact contribute to that problem. Which is why Jeff's attitude was so irresponsible and deserved to be challenged.

[dream_weaver]

Hi:

Just a few thoughts. 1) it will take at least 30 days for your effexor to start to help you feel better.

2) I am not sure that you family doctor was able to prescribe a "clinical dose" of effexor which you might need.

I have a diagnosis of major depression and have been doing ok except for a month a few years ago when I could not even get out of bed.

I am taking Effexor 150 mg, 2 in a.m. as well as welbutrin 300 mg. a.m. which is prescribed by a psychiatrist. I am not overweight and these meds have not had any ill effect at all.bs U aq m

i totally agree that you should see a specialist, a psychiatrist for your medication management. They are trained to know how to combine 2 drugs for enhanced effect.

hu

[deerslayer]

the Washington post article does make sense. ...it brings to mind a comment a brit copter pilot said to me years ago" anytime you yanks have a twinge you take a pill" -a generalization-needless to say i wanted to clock him....i always try to acess my situation vs. what a doc says i need. afterall how many times have you heard a doc say,if this doesn't work try this i cannot comment on any certain drug. the only personal experiance with debilitating,self destructive depression is during a major reumatoid flare up & then i was put on oxycontin(pain killers)but only took about 40% of the pain,methatrexate,prednasone ...never really told the doc about the depression because of the free way docs prescribe meds. it comes down to the individuals common sense and going from there. i wish you all the best. sorry i could not contribute any more than rambling.