? regarding adjusting pressure

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zzzzzz!!
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? regarding adjusting pressure

Post by zzzzzz!! » Wed Feb 06, 2008 5:15 pm

Sorry, I'm not having any luck finding anything with the search function.

Long story short: The last few days I've been waking up tired, the way I was before starting CPAP therapy. I've put on some weight in the past couple of months and am wondering if my pressure needs have changed.
  • No, I don't have a data-capable machine, just the M-Plus that the DME stuck me with before I found this site.
    No, I can't afford a data-capable machine or a new sleep study.
    No, I don't seem to be mouth-breathing (I tape).
  • Yes, my mask seems to be sealing the way it always has.
    Yes, it happens regardless of the number of hours I sleep.
    Yes, I'm hoping to get the weight back off soon. But in the meantime...
Can I go ahead and try a higher pressure to see what the empiric results are? Are there risks involved in changing it? I'm only at a 7 right now; I'm thinking of trying 8 tonight to see what happens.

I'm hoping to get a better machine eventually but that's not going to happen until at least the end of the year. Thanks for your input.


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Wulfman
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Post by Wulfman » Wed Feb 06, 2008 5:24 pm

Go for it! It's YOUR therapy.

Den
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zzzzzz!!
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Post by zzzzzz!! » Wed Feb 06, 2008 5:41 pm

Wulfman wrote:Go for it! It's YOUR therapy.
Oh, I agree with you there! I'm just wondering if there's anything I should be aware of like what potential risks there could be if I set my pressure too high (no, I'm not worried about bumping it up to 8 but wondering what could happen if I keep bumping it up).

I haven't paid much attention to all of this because up until now my therapy's been working well for me, but given the way I've felt this week and the lack of other factors, I'm thinking it's not working so well any more.

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Post by WNJ » Wed Feb 06, 2008 6:01 pm

So far as I know, the only risk you run with too much pressure is the possibility of triggering central apneas. I don't think this is likely at pressures slightly above your titrated pressure. Most of us have our Auto's upper range limit set 2 or 3 cm above our titrated pressure.

I suggest you try 2 or 3 cm above your titrated pressure. Adding 1 cm is not likely to make very much difference in the effectiveness of your therapy. At 9 or 10 cm you are still at a fairly low pressure.

Try it for a week and decide if it is helping.

Wayne


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Post by WearyOne » Wed Feb 06, 2008 8:06 pm

zzzzz!!, does your machine have any kind of AHI information on the LED screen? I know the Plus isn't data capable, but I didn't know if that just meant it doesn't have the card to collect data (like the M Series Pro that I have), and that you could still get AHI and possible leak info on the LED.

Pam


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Post by zzzzzz!! » Thu Feb 07, 2008 12:00 am

WearyOne, I don't think so, unless it's there and I just don't know how to access it.

I set it to 9 last night, but it's not really a fair trial because I went to bed way too late and only got about 4-1/2 hours of sleep. (I normally get about 6-1/2, which I know still isn't enough but I'm working on getting to bed earlier -- ideal for me is around 7-1/2 or maximum 8 hours).

I'll make a point of getting a full night in tonight and see how it goes.

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Post by hades161 » Thu Feb 07, 2008 1:06 am

When I started my treatment I had no titration study to go by so I basicly did it by feel. One thing you might wish to do is post your PSG results and ask about what others have for a pressure with your level of OSA as a starting point. You already have a starting point from your PSG but a lot of times they start you out at the wrong pressure. With a little input from others at your level of OSA you can get a ballpark idea.

After that to find my pressure I did a few things. First when I was awake I put on the mask and laid down in bed on my back. If I felt like I couldn't comfortably breath on my back I upped my pressure. Once I found a pressure I could breath with on my back. I tried it for a week and kept a log of how I felt when I woke up in a little notebook.

I put down things like did I dream? How many times I woke up to use the bathroom, and basicly how I felt when I woke up. I started at 12cmH20 on my plain jane, REMstar pro cpap, no data, no Cflex, with no LED.

After about a week my nocturna went away, but still no dreams and felt like poop in the mornings so the next I upped it 1 cmH20 per week until one week I wrote that I was dreaming, felt good each morning, with no bathroom trips, and my daily naps slowed down. A big sign post was also that I could watch a movie straight through without nodding off every 15 minutes.

That was at 16cmH20 and I used that pressure until a I could get an Apap. After I got my Apap I found my pressure ranged from 16-20 most times and now I am using my Apap in Cpap mode with a straight 17cmH20.

I wouldn't jump around to much with big adjustments as the danger is in causing centrals and even if you feel good you might go a little to high and not know it. Without data to guide you I feel it would be best to error on the side of a little low then a little to high. Also give each change in pressure at least a week. Many things can effect your pressure and how you feel in just 1 or 2 nights.

DISCLAIMER

I don't advocate doing it this way but if you have no other choice, you gotta do what ya gotta do. Try to get an APAP or at least a data capable unit as soon as you can. I live on $750 a month/no food stamps but I was able to swing an APAP for $600 by borrowing the cash from a roommate. Took me 6 months to pay back but it was well worth it. All you need is a script from your Doctor with "Needs APAP or Data Monitoring Cpap". Tell him your buying a unit online and you need a script for it to fax/email/mail them. Or if you hit ebay or some other auction sites you might not even need that.

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CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): cflex, Titration, CPAP, APAP


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Post by TossinNTurnin » Thu Feb 07, 2008 2:11 am

WearyOne wrote:zzzzz!!, does your machine have any kind of AHI information on the LED screen? I know the Plus isn't data capable, but I didn't know if that just meant it doesn't have the card to collect data (like the M Series Pro that I have), and that you could still get AHI and possible leak info on the LED.

Pam
Nope, the Plus doesn't even collect the data, (even though it claims to have a "smartcard") The only info it collects is basic compliance data... which is basically how many hours a night you've used your machine and blower hours.

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Post by ColinP » Thu Feb 07, 2008 5:49 am

If I may offer some advice (which was given to me by others here) - try to wait a week between making changes so that you have a better idea if the change has worked or not. One night's sleep can be misleading.

Colin

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Post by DreamStalker » Thu Feb 07, 2008 9:46 am

Higher pressures can lead to explosions ... but I think you will be OK
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Post by rested gal » Thu Feb 07, 2008 10:34 am

hades161 wrote:When I started my treatment I had no titration study to go by so I basicly did it by feel.
Ditto for me.
hades161 wrote:to find my pressure I did a few things. First when I was awake I put on the mask and laid down in bed on my back. If I felt like I couldn't comfortably breath on my back I upped my pressure.
Ditto again.

While deliberately letting my throat relax as much as possible, I methodically tried several straight pressures, beginning with 6. I found that a pressure of 8 almost was ok, 9 was better, and 10 cm H2O worked for me to keep my throat fully open. Doesn't take but a couple of breaths at each pressure to find that out. Providing a person can really keep the back of the throat exremely relaxed. I realized, of course, that no matter how deliberately I let my throat relax during this experimentation, it could not truly be "as relaxed" as in sleep.

So, for a range of pressure later when I bought myself an autopap and software (and after playing around with some lower pressures in the range) I eventually decided to use 9 or 10 as the minimum in the range. I already knew, from my wide-awake experiments, that it would take AT LEAST a pressure of 10 to prevent my apneas from the get-go. The range I use now with my Auto with A-flex is 10 - 20. The machine rarely has to go up from 10, but does occasionally. Pressure of 13 is about the most it ever has to use...and then only occasionally and briefly.
hades161 wrote:I don't advocate doing it this way but if you have no other choice, you gotta do what ya gotta do.
I agree, absolutely.
hades161 wrote: Try to get an APAP or at least a data capable unit as soon as you can.
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Post by zzzzzz!! » Thu Feb 07, 2008 11:55 am

Thanks for all of the suggestions; I appreciate your input.

Unfortunately, repeated attempts to get a copy of my PSG were unsuccessful; they would only send me the transcribed report. Here are the details:
Total sleep recording time: 463 minutes
(pretherapy total recording time: 169.5 minutes)
Total sleep time: 363.5 minutes
Pretherapy sleep efficiency: 79%
Sleep onset: 10.5 minutes
REM latency: 105 minutes
Lowest recorded O2 saturation: 84%
(cumulative time of 68 minutes recorded with O2 saturation below 88%)
Pretherapy AHI: 41.1 with 85 apneic events and 13 hypopneic events
("well controlled and corrected with CPAP pressure at 7 cmH2O, C-Flex 3, ResMed full face mask")
Post-therapy sleep efficiency: 84%

A better machine just isn't in the cards for a while... unless the proposed tax rebate goes through, in which case I'll put that money toward a new one.