Bravo vs Swift II Product Challenge Results Available

johnnygoodman · Post by **johnnygoodman** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 9:00 am

Greetings CPAPtalkers,

The results of the Bravo vs. Swift 2 product challenge are available:

http://bravoswift2.cpaptalk.com

Enrollment for the next challenge begins soon. We will announce it here as well as on the CPAP.com newsletter.

Johnny

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CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): newsletter, cpap.com, swift

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CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): newsletter, cpap.com, swift

ozij · Post by **ozij** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 9:49 am

Love those pillow fighting figures, - they're perfect.

O.

P.S, Don't always keep one for the "winner" and one for the "looser", that wouldn't be... um... pc?

ozij · Post by **ozij** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 10:10 am

Johnny,
According to my calculations, the Swift got extra points for making above average noise! Total points, 20.3 divided by 5 is 4.06.

However, an above averarge rating for noise is a negative attribute, so a 4 is just one below noisiest which is is equivalent to 2 points (just one better that the worst). That would give the Swift a total of 18.3, and an average score of 3.7. You can't have a mask getting extra scoring points for noise!

And while you're at it, giving the noise scale a different background color would also help too.

O.

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CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): swift

deerslayer · Post by **deerslayer** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 2:12 pm

never got a chance to try the bravo, but sure do like the swift. now if i can just keep the piehole closed

RichCMH · Post by **RichCMH** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 5:45 pm

Hey Johnny...
Could you space out the Swift comments so that the individual's review of both masks line up horizontally.

I would like to see the reviews side by side and not have to scroll back up to find/read the persons opposing Swift review.

I know... I'm picky.

Thank you!

neverbetter · Post by **neverbetter** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 3:50 pm

I don"t think the test was fair because you used die hard Swift II lovers and gave them a free Bravo to try for the test,. Even though he test shows one or 2 out of 5 preferred the Swift II, the real test of trying both for the first time would show the Bravo much higher, probably equal.
We know this because on your cpap.com site, you have people rate the masks and Bravo has a 3.9 where swift has 4.0. That's is the reality in my opinion. They are both about equal.

If you test the Nasal Aire II against the Swift II, that would be interesting.
I think Nasal Aire II would win 5 to one.

neverbetter · Post by **neverbetter** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 3:51 pm

Sorry, I meant one or two out of five chose bravo, not swift.

johnnygoodman · Post by **johnnygoodman** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 4:07 pm

Howdy neverbetter,

You are not the only one to express this view. I've replied to it on another thread and welcome your comments to my counter points. Below my quote is the thread it was taken from. Thanks for your feedback!

Johnny

Howdy Patrick,

Thanks for your comments. I disagree with them and my reasons follow.

Our Product Challenge is not intended to be a scientific double blind study, but I do believe it is a very good indicator of CPAP user preference.

The goal of any mask brought to market should be to become every CPAP users nightly mask of choice. This can only be achieved if it is so comfortable that it is better than what they are already using. CPAP users are looking for the best, most comfortable mask available and will gladly forsake all others for it.

To follow your logic, I should conduct my tests by instructing participants to discard a mask that works for them, take up a completely new genre of mask from the one that is known effective, and ask them to rate which of the two is best.

What conclusions could be drawn from such a test? Say I was conducting a Nasal Mask test on Nasal Pillow users. Mask A received a 2.2 out of 5 and Mask B received a 3.2 out of 5. I'd say the loser of that trial would be the participants.

Say Mask B was rated 5 out of 5. That is well and good, but how would it rate against the Nasal Mask system participants were using nightly before the start of the challenge? That would be the true indicator of comfort and of the likelihood that participants would switch at the end of a trial.

It is all about generating the highest level of CPAP user comfort. To do that, you have to test against their current mask, which is going to represent the best a given CPAP user has found for their preferences.

There's a reason the Bravo tested their product against the Swift. If you want to prove you satisfy a CPAP user's needs, you have to go after the company that is currently designing products that do. Winning that is a big deal and losing it provides feedback for improvement.

On that point, feedback indicates that the headgear on the Bravo is great and with some minor tweaks to pillow materials and positioning, the Bravo could be a formidable nasal pillow system.

Johnny

viewtopic/t26860/Challenge-format.html

dllfo · Post by **dllfo** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 10:27 pm

Hi Johnny,
I wear the Swift II and have found the nasal pillows, size large, do not handle high pressure well over a long period of time. AND that some pillows will last longer than others (Quality Control problem?).

Medicare allows me two new pillows a month. That seemed like a lot since the pillows lasted for months on the Respironics BiPap Auto I used for over a year. The BiPap Auto SV puts the pressure up to 30cm H2O and sometimes holds it there for minutes at a time, per Encore Pro 1.8.65.

Three sets of Nasal pillows have started "flapping in the breeze" or perhaps a better description is that they would go "concave" on me. I could actually hear the material flex. Pardon the expression, it makes a "plopping" type sound.

My current nasal pillows work fine, but who knows for how long. If you are talking to Resmed, you might mention it to them. I am not sure any mask made at this time was designed for that high of a pressure. Meanwhile, I am ordering another pair.

Good comments and Rebuttal.

ozij · Post by **ozij** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 2:23 am

The Swift is getting extra good points for being noisier than average.

And it hasn't been fixed yet.
O.

Robin_ · Post by **Robin_** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 5:58 pm

ozij, When rating noise level, one would intuitively give a higher score to the more quiet mask, since "less noise" is the desireable trait. At least thats the way I rated it, and I'd think most people would do the same. I never used the original Swift, but I've seen lots of complaints of noise in the forums. The Swift II was designed to improve the level of noise, and I think whatever they did in that regard probably worked. Basicly, I think both of these masks score high marks for quietness. I had no complaint with either one in that regard.

never better,
I respectfully disagree with your way of thinking. Not only for the reasons that Johnny stated, but from my own obervations as well. I'm a relatively new CPAP user, and I was given a Respironics OptiLife with my Respironics machine. That's a terrible mask, in my humble opinion. Had I not bought another mask on my own, I'd have quickly joined the ranks of the 50% of CPAK users who stop using their machines within the first few months.

I only owned the Swift II about a month before the challange. I had very few problems with it, but I was not a die-hard fan. I was anxious to particpate in the challange and try a new product with an open mind. The Bravo unit had several good points. But the bottom line is clearly that, when compared side-by-side, the Swift II had more advantages, as the test participants pointed out. It's really just that simple.

RespCare should have challenged Respironcis instead. They'd have won hands down.

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ozij · Post by **ozij** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 11:20 pm

Robin_ wrote:ozij, When rating noise level, one would intuitively give a higher score to the more quiet mask, since "less noise" is the desireable trait. At least thats the way I rated it, and I'd think most people would do the same. I never used the original Swift, but I've seen lots of complaints of noise in the forums. The Swift II was designed to improve the level of noise, and I think whatever they did in that regard probably worked. Basicly, I think both of these masks score high marks for quietness. I had no complaint with either one in that regard.

Thanks for making that clear, Robin.

O.

Issac · Post by **Issac** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 12:34 pm

I have both and I lean toward the Bravo pillow . It is not as good , in my opinion as the Nasal Aire II, however for high pressure above 16, but the Swift isn't as well. I like the Bravo head gear better. The Swift II might be quieter, but not the Swift I.
All and all, they are about the same.
If you were to put Bravo customers up to try the Swift II, your results would be reversed.
You should have had a test where they tried both for the first time. I say the results would be 50/50 in that case.

Machine	Mask

Additional Comments: straight cpap 12.20 AHI avg.0.79

Bravo vs Swift II Product Challenge Results Available

Bravo vs Swift II Product Challenge Results Available

Scoring is wrong.