Encore viewer not recording data on night 8

mindy · Post by **mindy** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 8:21 am

Hmmm - that sounds like the reverse of how it should work. From what I understand, EncoreViewer doesn't use a database so it should only be able to show what's on the card.

EncorePro will accumulate data even if card was erased as long as it was downloaded before erasure. I've done that and haven't lost data.

I hesitate to ask.... but is it possible that having both pieces of software may have confused the issue? Also, I dont' know what the effect would be of having both pieces of software on the same computer. If they both use modules in common, there could be an interaction. I've seen that happen before!

Mindy

mindy · Post by **mindy** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 8:23 am

DreamStalker wrote:As Jim tried to say ... it is an issue with the "M" series machines, not the software. From the very begining, the "M" series machines have been known to randomly drop off a couple of days of data.

The older Classic "tank" models don't have that problem ... that is how we know it is not a software issue (since we use the same software).

DreamStalker,

I agree ... but I thought the question last time was about not being able to see prior downloads in EncorePro while being able to see previous data in EncoreViewer. Perhaps I misunderstood?

Mindy

neillebo · Post by **neillebo** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 8:30 am

yes. that was my last question. I dont have any problems with both software running as they are really independent. I see all of my car uploads in pro. just when i click on the one for today, it has, of course, my one day only of data and when i do my charts it shows one day. encore analyzer gives me all. is pro supposed to show long term ahi trends etc.. just interesting that encore viewer combines them all.

DreamStalker · Post by **DreamStalker** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 8:30 am

mindy wrote:
DreamStalker wrote:As Jim tried to say ... it is an issue with the "M" series machines, not the software. From the very begining, the "M" series machines have been known to randomly drop off a couple of days of data.

The older Classic "tank" models don't have that problem ... that is how we know it is not a software issue (since we use the same software).
DreamStalker,

I agree ... but I thought the question last time was about not being able to see prior downloads in EncorePro while being able to see previous data in EncoreViewer. Perhaps I misunderstood?

Mindy

... or maybe I did

The original question is asking about data on 8th day ... as I understand it, Encore Viewer can only do 7 days at a time cuz it does not utilize the SQL database.

Nevertheless, the "M" series machines have the 2-missing day issue regardless of whether using Encore Pro or EncoreViewer ... hope that clears things up.

mindy · Post by **mindy** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 9:09 am

neillebo wrote:yes. that was my last question. I dont have any problems with both software running as they are really independent. I see all of my car uploads in pro. just when i click on the one for today, it has, of course, my one day only of data and when i do my charts it shows one day. encore analyzer gives me all. is pro supposed to show long term ahi trends etc.. just interesting that encore viewer combines them all.

Aha - I think I get it now! In EncorePro, if you right click on the patient name you have created, there's an option to do a range of dates. Why not try that?

Mindy

ps The two software packages may be "independent" but if they use any dll's in common that were installed with the packages, the second installation could have overlaid the first. From the problem you're having, it doesn't sound like that happened here but I have seen it in other situations.

neillebo · Post by **neillebo** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 9:15 am

in my case i installed viewer first and then pro. mindy, are you sure that pro shows all dates even when you erase card data or are you guessing? same with the diff between pro and encore? i just need to somehow find out for sure if in pro the software allows you to see all data maintained forever in the database? again , skinners' software reads all and also on pro, the compliance data is life to date.. Yes, re right clicking, but when i do that for yesterday it does not allow for data ranges as that upload only contains one day of data... so, my question is where/how do i click to show a full range of data.. if i go to the day before, it will show the prev full week, but will exclude the newly imported items.

mindy · Post by **mindy** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 9:20 am

neillebo wrote:in my case i installed viewer first and then pro. mindy, are you sure that pro shows all dates even when you erase card data or are you guessing? same with the diff between pro and encore? i just need to somehow find out for sure if in pro the software allows you to see all data maintained forever in the database? again , skinners' software reads all and also on pro, the compliance data is life to date.. Yes, re right clicking, but when i do that for yesterday it does not allow for data ranges as that upload only contains one day of data... so, my question is where/how do i click to show a full range of data.. if i go to the day before, it will show the prev full week, but will exclude the newly imported items.

Neilebo,

No, EncorePro will not retrieve "lost" data because that data never made it onto the Smartcard. Can't find data out of the ether

From what I understood, you had asked about not being able to see prior data with EncorePro and that was the question I was addressing. Rather than clicking right-clicking on a date, right-click on your user name and you will see the option to report on everything stored in SQL Server DB.

Hope that helps

Mindy

mindy · Post by **mindy** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 9:22 am

ps - no, I'm not guessing. I had the same problem you did and it wasn't until I clicked on my "patient name" rather than one of the dates that I was able to see all of the data.

m

mindy · Post by **mindy** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 10:58 am

I've been going through EncorePro. I use the right-click on patient name to export patient (age and memory -- argghhhhh!)

I'd suggest looking at Help/Reports. If you go to "Compliance View", the third button on the Interactive Compliance View screen will create a report showing compliance, pressures and a summary of leaks.

Other options if you want more detailed data:

1) for each date downloaded, right-click and export as a "CSV" file and import into Excel and put all the data together - then can do your own graphs and reports.

2) Export patient to XML and write your own program or promise a programmer friend your first-born

3) Use Adobe Acrobat to combine the relevant pages from each day into a single document.

I'll leave it to others to advise on other options.

***** Now, back to the M-series data loss problem. I've been looking at possible fixes and have a little bit to report.

My hypothesis (if it's fixable at all):

The M-Series must have an algorithm to determine when to decide we're done for the night since it will account for times we turn off the pressure for bathroom and strawberry shortcake trips. We already know that whenever it thinks it's midnight, if we're "off" machine, it will split the data into 2 days.

We don't know if it writes to the Smartcard as it goes along or if it waits until morning to write the whole night's worth of data at once. If the former, it probably writes some kind of indicator to the end of the data to specify end of night.

If we unplug the machine (as I do), first thing in the am, if it hasn't finished writing last night's data or hasn't written the "end-of-night" indicator, then by unplugging we may be wrecking some havoc with the algorithm.

So, my "experiment" has been as follows:

1. Leave machine plugged in until I see that the LCD data has been updated to include last night's data and see how long that takes. Result: about 1 hour. (Now I don't always check but I leave machine plugged in for at least one hour and then turn it off.)

I've been doing this since 11/3 and as of last night, I haven't lost any data.

Now, I realize that this could still be coincidence and my hypothesis could be wrong, wrong, wrong..... but if anyone else is willing to try this (or if some of you lose data and you don't unplug machine or turn off surge protector and you are still losing data , please let us know) then there is a very small possibility we might be able to solve this little dilemma.

Mindy

leonardlake · Post by **leonardlake** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 8:54 pm

I leave my smart card in my M-series Auto w/C-Flex until I get home from work in the evening and only unplug the machine when I go on vacation. I still get the occasional two days of missing detail data with Encore Pro 1.8.49. I upload every day to Encore Pro and Encore Pro Analyzer. I seem to be able to avoid the missing data if I erase the card after accumulating 6 days of detail data.

mindy · Post by **mindy** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 10:45 pm

Thanks for the info, LeonardLake....

That scotches that theory! Ah well, I didn't have too much hope for it in any case.

Mindy

neillebo · Post by **neillebo** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 7:52 am

Thanks for the info. Mindy, I know it wont retrieve "lost" data. I was referring to data that I indeed have that has been uploaded but then I erase the card. Anyway, I think erasing will do it, as I only lost the 1 day and then once erased got the next day. Thanks all for your time!!!!

mindy · Post by **mindy** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 8:50 am

Hi Neillebo,

Yes, I do understand what you were looking for. I was looking for same awhile back and stumbled across various things. The data that is uploaded to SQL Server is, indeed, "all there". Back then once I realized that the data was there and that it wasn't going to be a picnic, I shelved it for "some day"....

One can re-create any individual detail report for each upload but to put it all together in one report looks like it requires some programming using either the SQL Server database directly or by exporting to XML and then doing a *lot* of work in Excel (or use EPA ).

I've looked at the exported file and might take a stab at it someday but it's little too time-consuming for me right now. Perhaps after I retire (not too far off) since I do too much programming at work to want to do same at home .

Mindy

Nodzy · Post by **Nodzy** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 7:54 am

The lost data glitch.

I've gone through this for months with two versions of EP Pro and now with EV. The data problem seems to be firmware or data card. Obviously, it's not likely to be the data cards. For some reason the therapy firmware in the M-series, or the card writer firmware portion, or the actual card writer itself. has a problem.

Sometimes I get 18 to 20-days without missing data. And others times data is missing every week to 14-days. Occasionally the affected daily data appears on certain report pages, but still lists in other areas that I didn't have therapy on that same night.

My problem with this glutch is.... if that long-known and widespread "data missing" problem exists... are any of the other firmware portions bug-laden.

Despite some things like the original humidifier tanks having leakage problems and the initially offered hose-swivel elbow leaking water, I think the unit is great. But then, my only experience with the "classic" tank style REMstar units was tortorous because docs had me on straight CPAP when I should have been on BIPAP through those nearly 5-years -- so I hated the whole affair and couldn't achieve beneficial compliance on many nights.

With the M-series Auto-M (from June to September) and now the BIPAP BiFlex Auto-M I have 99% compliance, but the cumulative data reflects only 94% compliance because of the days when those machines failed to accurately accurately write the data to the SmartCard.

An aside: Many years ago I ate a restaurant and was having cake and coffee for dessert. A fork cut revealed legs and body of a large crawler in the cake. The waitress commented when I called her over... "I'll have to get the manager, he'll probably want to charge you more for the extra protein in that cake."

Nodzy....

jskinner · Post by **jskinner** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 2:29 pm

wolftracker wrote:but i believe the view only shows what is on the card
and the card only holds 7 days of detailed info

Just for the record its 7 sessions not days. That means it maybe be less than or equal to 7 days.

Captain_Midnight wrote: I suspect that Respironics lawyers might had something to do with the notion that we shouldn't actually save files for the long-term, (lest we make pressure adjustments based on this info.) Just a guess.

No its a bug in the PAP fireware or software.

neillebo wrote:i just need to somehow find out for sure if in pro the software allows you to see all data maintained forever in the database?

Yes it does.

mindy wrote: The M-Series must have an algorithm to determine when to decide we're done for the night since it will account for times we turn off the pressure for bathroom and strawberry shortcake trips. We already know that whenever it thinks it's midnight, if we're "off" machine, it will split the data into 2 days.

The machines know nothing about day or night. It only stores session information. Programs like Encore Pro and EPA decide on what makes up a night.

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CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): respironics, Encore Pro

Encore viewer not recording data on night 8

I do not unplug my machine.

Re: I have same software