don't be so quick to judge

sleepycarol · Post by **sleepycarol** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 8:15 am

Due to all the advice on this board I have been thinking about some of my comments since starting to post on this forum.

Nightwatcher that means you and I have missed the boat in some instances.

What works for us may NOT work for someone else. I hadn't given it much thought until this thread was started and am glad that it did -- as it gave me another perspective to think about.

In my reflections, I tend to be shortsighted. When someone has posted comments about their pillow -- I have jumped to the conclusion that everyone needs a memory foam pillow -- after all it is what works for me. When people have problems with their nasal mask I have incorrectly assumed that a full face mask would solve their problem because that is what works for me. If they have trouble with a full face mask and it is not the F&P 431 -- I am quick to think ahh if they would only change to the one I use and that would take care of their problem. The list goes on.

I feel that the posters were trying to remind him that he has multiple reasons for making treatment works. I think for the most part everyone of us at some point in our treatment has been ready to throw in the towel and quit. If he didn't want some support and reasons not to quit he wouldn't have been on here posting. It is my feeling that subconsciously he was looking for a reason not to stop treatment and was just expressing his frustration at things not going right.

Members were simply reminding him of those reasons why not to stop treatment. After all I equate it with this -- if you saw someone standing on the edge of a roof about ready to jump you would try to stop the person from making this horrific mistake.

Snoredog · Post by **Snoredog** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 3:41 pm

DreamStalker wrote:
LavenderMist wrote:Nightwatcher,
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think you were referring to people pointing out the risks of stopping treatment, i.e. heart attack, stroke, impact on family etc, but was referring to this part

My guess is that there are other underlying issues (family/wife)
Maybe I read things wrong, but I thought this was what you meant by this thread. We have no way of knowing what is going on in someone's family life. Sometimes in written word it is hard to communciate because of lack of facial expression, tone of voice etc. Things can be misconstrued. Perhaps, I'm off the mark. If so, please forgive me.
Yes. You too are wrong and off the mark.

I agree blame it on the wife

sharon1965 · Post by **sharon1965** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 3:50 pm

snoredog, you instigator you, you're as bad as you can be!

j.a.taylor · Post by **j.a.taylor** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 4:34 pm

Wow!

Take a couple of days off this forum, and you miss all kinds of activity.

I went through and read the original post that this one refers too, and didn't see judgmentalism, nor did I see "tough love." What I saw was compassionate responses to someone crying out for help, frustrated, and ready to give up.

Sometimes, the most compassionate thing we can do is speak the truth, even if it isn't viewed that way. In my opinion, forum members were just trying to give daddyof7 some perspective.

I've been doing this therapy for 3 months, and there are still whole weeks when my sleep is lousy, and I feel like crap (although I will admit that I haven't had the troubles that some have had). There are days when it doesn't feel "right" to continue this treatment.

But then, I remember the words of many on this forum, who have been further down this path, who say things like "Don't quit, Keep trying, Things will get better, etc." And it keeps me going.

I also appreciate some of the tough comments that come at times. Some of us need to learn, if we're going to be successful in this treatment, not to be whiners (and no, I'm not implying that that's what daddyof7 was doing, just stating a fact). If tough words are tinged with compassion, understanding, and an "I've been there too attitude," then they're often a great motive for change.

This treatment isn't going to change things for us overnight, and we're foolish to expect it to do that. After all, it took most of us much of a life-time to get to the place where we were finally getting treatment. We're not going to reverse the results of that overnight.

So my advice to daddyof7 and others is simply this: be patient, keep trying, think of the reasons why you're going through this treatment, keep connected to those on this forum who will encourage you (and at times, tell you to quit whining), and things will eventually get better.

Treesap · Post by **Treesap** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 5:33 pm

j.a.taylor wrote: I went through and read the original post that this one refers too, and didn't see judgmentalism, nor did I see "tough love." What I saw was compassionate responses to someone crying out for help, frustrated, and ready to give up.

I agree. I had to go back and read the posts after I posted my 2 cents. I don't think anyone was being too tough.

Some people are not very good followers of prescriptions or doctor's orders. If they don't understand their life is at risk, then they need to hear the consequences of their actions (or lack thereof).

Is that tough love? I guess it depends on who you talk to. I would much rather my loved ones and friends tell me like it is rather than sugar-coat or not tell all of the truth of a situation.

rested gal · Post by **rested gal** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 3:27 am

For newcomers to this message board who may have missed the topic that lead to this topic...and might have not realized the the words in blue within DreamStalker's post were clickable.... here's the topic that's being discussed:

viewtopic/t25238/I-QUIT.html

jennmary · Post by **jennmary** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 7:57 pm

I just have to put my 2 cents in.

What does one expect when they put something on a CPAP message board stating "I quit"? Come on! Of course people spoke up, of course it ruffled a few feathers. Some of us have been through hell, lost jobs, husbands, wives, friends, years of our lives because of our SA. Most of us remember the days of calling in sick because they just couldnt get out of bed, of snapping at our beloved children for the smallest thing and not being able to stop the mood swings. I know I remember.

None of us had it "easy" when we started CPAP. None of us went through the first week thinking about how FUN and wonderful and comfortable it was. Did we? But we stuck through it....because we knew what was at stake, and because we had eachother to remind us of it if we forgot.

I dont think anyone was being judgmental. I think that everyone was trying to help, trying to ask the questions needed to help someone.

I also think that it is frustrating for some of us to see someone give up after a week....knowing that WE had to go through it too. Yes we know how hard it is.

I would imagine that yes....there are family issues. I can understand how hard it is to lay there awake for 3 hours with the mask on knowing you have to be up in the morning to take care of your children or earn a living to support your family. I know that at that moment a few hours of apnea sleep can seem 10 times better than 1 hour of uncomfortable sleep apnea sleep. Many of us know this and understand it well. So yes...in a lot of ways CPAP IS a family issue, and a marital issue. When you share a bed with someone you want them to be comfortable, which makes you think about the fact that you are tossing and turning while doing your best impression of darth vadar and blowing air into your partners face. This is how I took the wife/family statement.

I dont think there was any judgement going on....just people trying to help.

j.a.taylor · Post by **j.a.taylor** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 8:33 pm

jennmary wrote:I just have to put my 2 cents in.

What does one expect when they put something on a CPAP message board stating "I quit"? Come on! Of course people spoke up, of course it ruffled a few feathers. Some of us have been through hell, lost jobs, husbands, wives, friends, years of our lives because of our SA. Most of us remember the days of calling in sick because they just couldn't get out of bed, of snapping at our beloved children for the smallest thing and not being able to stop the mood swings. I know I remember.

None of us had it "easy" when we started CPAP. None of us went through the first week thinking about how FUN and wonderful and comfortable it was. Did we? But we stuck through it....because we knew what was at stake, and because we had eachother to remind us of it if we forgot.

I dont think anyone was being judgmental. I think that everyone was trying to help, trying to ask the questions needed to help someone.

I also think that it is frustrating for some of us to see someone give up after a week....knowing that WE had to go through it too. Yes we know how hard it is.

I would imagine that yes....there are family issues. I can understand how hard it is to lay there awake for 3 hours with the mask on knowing you have to be up in the morning to take care of your children or earn a living to support your family. I know that at that moment a few hours of apnea sleep can seem 10 times better than 1 hour of uncomfortable sleep apnea sleep. Many of us know this and understand it well. So yes...in a lot of ways CPAP IS a family issue, and a marital issue. When you share a bed with someone you want them to be comfortable, which makes you think about the fact that you are tossing and turning while doing your best impression of darth vadar and blowing air into your partners face. This is how I took the wife/family statement.

I don't think there was any judgment going on....just people trying to help.

jenmary,

That was a lot more than 2 cents!

Although I know you were being serious, you had me LOL because you summed up this whole topic well.

It's kind of hard not to tell someone, "Straighten up, you too will survive," when you've "been there and done that."

Yet, to me, it's also comforting. To know that others have been there, that others have shared our struggles, that others know what we're going through.

So daddyof7 if you're still out there, please don't walk away from CPAP, and please don't walk away from this forum.

We're here for ya!

DreamStalker · Post by **DreamStalker** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 8:55 pm

I changed my mind and decided to make one last post to this thread because I think Nightwatcher perhaps now understands … that we all were indeed trying to help daddyof7 in our own way … that we are all different and therefore express ourselves differently … that yet we all have in common this apnea condition which we struggle to treat successfully … and that we all participate in this forum to share our experiences, knowledge, and friendship as CPAP/xPAP users.

In all fairness to Nightwatcher, I now realize that he did have good intentions with this thread … and that I took his comments about me a bit too personal (for that I apologize). Perhaps we can move on now and allow this thread to rest peacefully within the forum archives.

… and yes Mr. Taylor, I too hope that daddyof7 comes back to visit the forum and is compelled to keep trying.

GumbyCT · Post by **GumbyCT** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 8:56 pm

j.a.taylor wrote:
jennmary wrote:I just have to put my 2 cents in.

I also think that it is frustrating for some of us to see someone give up after a week....knowing that WE had to go through it too. Yes we know how hard it is.

I don't think there was any judgment going on....just people trying to help.
jenmary,

That was a lot more than 2 cents!

It's kind of hard not to tell someone, "Straighten up, you too will survive," when you've "been there and done that."

Yet, to me, it's also comforting. To know that others have been there, that others have shared our struggles, that others know what we're going through.

So daddyof7 if you're still out there, please don't walk away from CPAP, and please don't walk away from this forum.

We're here for ya!

::knodding:: Jennmary's summary was worth much more than 2 cents. My feeling is that many of us do not want to hear THE truth but would prefer that someone will say it's gonna be alright.

Fact is, everything WILL be alright but this is what YOU gotta do!!! So it IS up to YOU!!

I was impressed with this -

Anonymous wrote:My sponsor in AA said to me when I asked him to be my sponsor "If you want to stay sober I will walk thru fire to help you, if you just want a shoulder to cry on when you are sick, sober and sorry I will walk across the street to stay away from you".

I found it quite inspiring.

Nightwatcher · Post by **Nightwatcher** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 9:09 pm

I am sorry to have started off so clumsily with everyone. The first 2 months of cpap have been hell for me. I've slept less and been a lot less pleasant to be around. And, I'm spending a lot of money that I don't have. When this frustration has spilled over into my posts, I am sorry. This experience is driving me a little crazy.

On a more hopeful note, and I hope dadof7 is still here, I have gotten my first good three nights sleep since starting cpap over 2 months ago!

The answer has been a 25 pillow made of feathers and down. Now I can sleep on my side without my mask slipping around. It has made all the difference. After buying a new mask, changing my bed, adjusting my sleep schedule and getting used to looking like man in the ER all I really needed was a soft pillow.

A week ago I would not have believed that a simple pillow from the dept store would help me so much. It's been 3 nights in a row of at least 6-8 hrs sleep. I was getting only 3-4 before the feather/down pillow.

Again, my apologies for allowing so much of my frustrations spill over into my posts. I feel much better after several night's sleep!

j.a.taylor · Post by **j.a.taylor** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 9:13 pm

DreamStalker wrote:I changed my mind and decided to make one last post to this thread because I think Nightwatcher perhaps now understands … that we all were indeed trying to help daddyof7 in our own way … that we are all different and therefore express ourselves differently … that yet we all have in common this apnea condition which we struggle to treat successfully … and that we all participate in this forum to share our experiences, knowledge, and friendship as CPAP/xPAP users.

In all fairness to Nightwatcher, I now realize that he did have good intentions with this thread … and that I took his comments about me a bit too personal (for that I apologize). Perhaps we can move on now and allow this thread to rest peacefully within the forum archives.

… and yes Mr. Taylor, I too hope that daddyof7 comes back to visit the forum and is compelled to keep trying.

Well said DreamStalker!

And Nightwatcher, thanks for sharing openly and posting this thread. We're all interested in helping one another, and there may be times when we appear to come across to harshly to someone relatively new to the forum.

But you gave everyone a chance to explain themselves, and even if you still don't agree with all the methods, perhaps you can look past that to the intent of the message. Many on this forum have been in the same place as daddyof7, and they want to make sure that he's around to enjoy his 7.

And Dreamstalker, it's good to see you posting again. You went away for a brief "sabbatical" just as I was getting started on this forum. I'm glad to see that you didn't stay away too long.

RosemaryB · Post by **RosemaryB** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 10:06 pm

Mostly I was trained to be "nice" to people. I did not want to rock the boat. Well, today I talked to 2 people I care about who are on cpap. With one of them I gave information firmly about why sleeping the last 4 hours of the night without her cpap was very bad. I used the "put a plastic bag over your head x times a night analogy." Further, I saw her sleep study and the desats she had and I told her she was having this w/o the cpap. She thanked me for it and said she didn't realize how serious it could be (she's had at least a few mild strokes).

The other is someone who is compliant for over a year. I suspect that he needs a bipap as he's at a high pressure and in his titration study they only got him down to 7.5 AHI. He was too uncomfortable to get a good sleep study, IMO. I lent him my data capable machine set to his pressure and it showed way too many apneas, more than that. He has a bare bones machine. I've been politiely trying to convince him to get another sleep study, or at least get a data capable machine to monitor things. This is someone with bypass surgery and other cardiac issues. Today I'd just had it and told him off, saying it was his health and he was the one making the choices. This is not my usual style!!! He called later and left a long message saying I was right and he did need to get things taken care of so the therapy works right (not just halfway) for him. He outlined his plan to take care of it.

Now, I would not be a thorn in the side to these people before I started reading this forum. But it is working and both of them were grateful. I'm not commenting on the OP, since I think that's also a valid point. But I wanted to say that I learned a lot and threads like these have helped me sort it out. And stop being so nice to the people I care about when I need to do that, too. Loving and being nice are not always the same thing!

Further, a lot of this is the fault of the DME's who don't give data capable machines. And the doctors who don't tell people how serious a disorder it is, particularly the desats for certain folks. They scare you plenty about cholesterol and stuff like that, but this is made to seem like comfort and getting better rest.

KAZ · Post by **KAZ** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 7:19 am

Well said all, we need to stick together for certain. Regards

split_city · Post by **split_city** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 7:38 am

Is everybody ready for a group hug yet??

don't be so quick to judge

WELL SAID!