Final word on sleep aids and drugs.

[jjposey]

Valerian?????

I tried this once for about a week after suffering from insomnia and violent nightmares for almost a month. Violent nightmares became waking hallucinations!
I will never take valerian again!!!!!!!

[WearyOne]

Valerian?????

I tried this once for about a week after suffering from insomnia and violent nightmares for almost a month. Violent nightmares became waking hallucinations!
I will never take valerian again!!!!!!!

That is one of the possible side effects of Valerian. I've taken it in the past without that problem, but haven't tried it recently.

Rozerem is a drug that's supposed to work in your brain LIKE melatonin.

My son has a sleeping disorder called non-24 hour sleep/wake syndrome. There's a long medical name for it that I won't bother with! He tried many sleeping pills since he turned 18 (he's 19 now). Ambien gave him hallucinations. Lunesta didn't work and neither did Rozerem. He tried melatonin at 1 milligram and it did nothing. Our sleep doc said anything less than 3 milligrams wouldn't work, so he finally tried 3 milligrams and it worked wonders! He hasn't had a problem since starting on the 3 milligrams about 3 months ago. The sleep doc was surprised the melatonin worked and the Rozerem didn't, since they're supposed produce the same reaction in the brain. He said if he ever wanted to try the Rozerem again, he could up the dose and see if that helped. But then, as he said and I agree, why do that when the cheap, over-the-counter melatonin does the trick!

Pam

[jburnham]

Like jburnham, I am using a medication (Lyrica) that is for another purpose (pain of peripheral neuropathy), but is beginning to be used off label to assist with deep sleep. My sleep doctor slowly increased the dosage. When I got to a dosage that produced a negative side effect, I went back down to a lower dose.

I take a different approach - within safe limits, I try to increase the dosage until I get enough of the desired effect or unnaceptable side-effects and then back down. Again, I'd say "do as I say and not as I do" - I don't get that much more effect from 1200mg of gabapentin than I do from 300mg and 1200mg leaves me feeling a little hung over - but I took 1200mg my first night on cpap, but am back down to 300mg.

[Sleepdeprived]

that is why I only take melatonin, it works (for me), no side effects here other than allowing me to sleep longer, no afternoon fatigue, no 3rd arm growing out of your forehead.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/melato ... -melatonin

but you have to decide on your own what works and what doesn't.

Hi Snoredog

In what amount do you take melatonin ? I have been thinking about giving it a try.

Also how long have you been taking it ?

Sleepdeprived

[Jere]

I have not checked in on this forum for a while, and it is interesting to see the same conversations going round and round.

Anyway, there really are some of us out there who really need sleep meds to sleep. I have suffered chronic insomnia for more than 25 years due to an anxiety disorder I inherited from the wackos on my mother's side of the family. There is not a snowballs chance in hades that I could function and live a normal (well sort of normal) life if I were not taking sleep meds.

For 20 of those 25 years I was humiliated and made to feel guilty by doctors whenever I had to refill a prescription. Five years ago I found a sleep doc (a very well-respected sleep doctor) who told me "you have a sleep problem - of course you should take sleep meds". That's when I realized that I do not have to feel guilty to get a reasonable night's sleep.

So, when someone says "DON'T TAKE SLEEP MEDS", not only is that person (possibly) providing dangerous advice but that person is continuing to spread the stigma that those of us who need the stuff are really, really tired of hearing. So there.



.

[Highnote]

How have you been able to deal with the tolerance and dependence issues that many sleep meds have?

I ask because in discussing treatment options with my sleep doc he has suggested long-term use of one to alter sleep architecture. This suggestion I have not (yet) assented to. Knowing something about the meds in question I looked askance at them, but he didn't have a problem or wouldn't have suggested it.

I just wonder how one deals with these issues long-term.

[Wolfmarsh]

I too use Ambien 10mg (not CR) on occasion to kick my ass into sleep overdrive, and I dont see anything wrong with it.

Some of my best nights of sleep are the nights I take the Ambien. I fall asleep faster and stay asleep longer.

I dont take it every night though. It takes me about 4 months to go through a 30 pill count bottle.

[Jere]

Dependence issues: My anxiety condition is (I believe) life-long and I assume that my use of the meds will be life long.

Tolerance: This is a problem. I tend to use one med for a year or so and then swiitch to a similar med. Seems to keep this problem under control. Also, I have gotten pretty good at knowing when I can take less - which also helps.

I stay away from Ambien/Lunesta/Sonata except for the real bad nights. Nothing wrong with it, but it becomes an effective reserve as necessary.

[darthlucy]

BTW, just as an aside to the topic, my sleep Dr says that Rozerem is, a proprietary blend of…melatonin. How is that for being a money hungry pharmaceutical company!

I don't believe that is correct. This is what I found:

"Rozerem acts on 2 of the melatonin receptors (MT1 and MT2) while sparing the peripheral melatonin receptor MT3. Melatonin, which hits all 3 receptors, has the theroetical possibility of interfering with puberty/reproductive functioning because of its effect on MT3. MT1 and MT2 are located mainly in the brain, at the suprachiasmatic nucleus.
Melatonin itself is useful for shifting the biogical clock if given at the proper time. However, it is not a good drug for pure insomnia- it has only about 25 % effectiveness for primary insomnia. Why is Rozerem, a melatonin agonist, effective for insomnia while melatonin isn't?? Nobody knows for sure, but it may be because of increased bioavailabilty or because of its ratio of action at the 2 main melatonin receptors.
From what I've heard, Rozerem is a little less effective for insomnia than the benzodiazepines and the benzo agonists (Ambien, Lunesta, Sonata). But it has a good side effect profile and no risk of addiction. Psychiatrists need to be aware that Luvox (fluvoxamine) raises its levels to 50-70x's normal, and therefore Rozerem and luvox should not be prescribed together."

[RosemaryB]

I currently take melatonin because I'm a light sleeper (lots of arousals) and it seems to help me stay asleep. My gp thinks it's fine to take.

When I went through menopause I had difficulty sleeping. I took 5-HTP (100 mg in the evening) and it solved the problem. It's a supplement, a tryptophan precursor, I believe. It doesn't have research behind it like melatonin, but it worked for me and made quite a difference. It tried some other supplements first and they didn't work. This was all before my OSA was discovered, though I'm sure I had it then.

Here's some info about it.

http://healthlibrary.epnet.com/GetConte ... kiid=21399

[Highnote]

Jere -

Thanks. It is good to know that these meds can work well and the issues are manageable when used properly.

[Highnote]

Melatonin itself is useful for shifting the biogical clock if given at the proper time. However, it is not a good drug for pure insomnia- it has only about 25 % effectiveness for primary insomnia. Why is Rozerem, a melatonin agonist, effective for insomnia while melatonin isn't?? Nobody knows for sure, but it may be because of increased bioavailabilty or because of its ratio of action at the 2 main melatonin receptors.

Maybe the fact that the Rozerem dose is 8 mg has something to do with it. Few melatonin users take that much. If anyone knows their relative bioavailabilites that might shed some light.

Personal view: a lot of docs are hesitant to recommend a dietary supplement out of fear someone will get a bad batch and keel over. This happened to some people who took tryptophan a number of years ago. Since Rozerem is FDA-approved they don't worry about that. And if it's $3 a pill, hey, they're not the ones paying.

Subjectively I can't tell them apart.

[JZ]

Melatonin itself is useful for shifting the biogical clock if given at the proper time. However, it is not a good drug for pure insomnia- it has only about 25 % effectiveness for primary insomnia.

That is interesting, Lisa. I have insomnia and have been frustrated that melatonin does not seem to help me at all.

Janna

[SleepGuy]

I came across this study a while back and think it's relevant to this thread.
It turns out that science has proven that lavender essential oil actually has therapeutic value in inducing and promoting sleep. The abstract for the first human study of lavender and sleep states:

“Aromatherapy is an anecdotal method for modifying sleep and mood. However, whether olfactory exposure to essential oils affects night-time objective sleep remains untested. Previous studies also demonstrate superior olfactory abilities in women. Therefore, this study investigated the effects of an olfactory stimulus on subsequent sleep and assessed gender differences in such effects. Thirty-one young healthy sleepers (16 men and 15 women, aged 18 to 30 yr, mean+/-SD, 20.5+/-2.4 yr) completed 3 consecutive overnight sessions in a sleep laboratory: one adaptation, one stimulus, and one control night (the latter 2 nights in counterbalanced order). Subjects received an intermittent presentation (first 2 min of each 10 min interval) of an olfactory (lavender oil) or a control (distilled water) stimulus between 23:10 and 23:40 h. Standard polysomnographic sleep and self-rated sleepiness and mood data were collected. Lavender increased the percentage of deep or slow-wave sleep (SWS) in men and women. All subjects reported higher vigor the morning after lavender exposure, corroborating the restorative SWS increase. Lavender also increased stage 2 (light) sleep, and decreased rapid-eye movement (REM) sleep and the amount of time to reach wake after first falling asleep (wake after sleep onset latency) in women, with opposite effects in men. Thus, lavender serves as a mild sedative and has practical applications as a novel, nonphotic method for promoting deep sleep in young men and women and for producing gender-dependent sleep effects.”

Goel, N, Hyungsoo, K, Lao, RP (2005); An Olfactory Stimulus Modifies Nighttime Sleep in Young Men and Women; Chronobiology International Vol. 22, No. 5:889-904.