Camping Tech question.. from a newbie

[Snoredog]

Is there a portable generator that's quiet enough for nighttime use with a CPAP? If you go the generator route, would it be important to use a power conditioner so your xPAP doesn't get fried?

I looked into portable generators about a year ago and Honda makes an excellent small generator (EU1000i) that produces about 59 decibels at 23 feet. For reference: 50 decibels (normal indoor conversation), 55 decibels (passenger car idling), 60 decibels (passenger car moving slowly). With the generator placed at the end of a 25 foot extension cord, I could sleep with that amount of noise. It would be a "white" noise and I tolerate that well. But everyone would hear that noise and many campgrounds have quiet hours between 10pm and 6-7am, so it could be a problem.

You wouldn't need a power conditioner with the Honda unit because the power is so clean. Other generators might be equally clean but that would have to be researched.

The Honda generators are rather expensive (around $700) and when I looked at them, my thoughts quickly turned to how I could use it when I wasn't camping. That started me thinking about a power outage at home and how the 900w EU1000i wouldn't be big enough to run the refrigerator and some lights and the TV... Soon I was thinking about larger generators. That really put me off the whole idea.

Regarding battery maintenance: what's the best way to keep batteries charging and chargeable, and how often do you have to check the charge on deep cycle batteries to make sure they're always ready? Is it wise to completely discharge them and re-charge every couple of months, as I do? Or is that old-thinking from nickel-cadmium 'memory effect?'

The best way to keep a lead acid deep cycle battery fresh is to charge it properly and then keep it on a trickle charger like the Battery Tender Plus (see picture in previous post). You can check a battery's state of charge with an inexpensive multimeter. Leave the battery off the charger for 5 hours and measure at the terminals. Anything above 12.7 volts should be considered fully charged.

All batteries wear out. A battery may be rated for a number of discharge/charge cycles before it loses its ability to hold a full charge. That rating depends on a lot of variables. How deep was the discharge? What level of charge is considered fully charged? It's not really worth worrying about for xPAP users. Worth considering is how much power your particular xPAP draws (measured in amps per hour) and how long you will need to use the battery before recharging. Your calculations should allow for a battery rated so that no more than 2/3 its capacity is used. (If you want a quality deep cycle battery to last a long time.)

If you discharge monthly, try to avoid going below a 50% state of charge (about 12.2 volts). This applies to deep cycle batteries. Automotive starter batteries aren't designed for deep discharge and will be intolerant to use as a xPAP power source.

Good luck and use your battery because if you don't it probably won't work as well when you need it.

[im_not_snoring!]

I have been thinking about replacing my Interstate, flooded cell, type 34 battery with one of the new Sears Marine Platinum batteries. This is for my full size Ford van, while camping.

Cold Cranking Amps (CCA at 0 deg.F)
880

Reserve Capacity (RC)
135 min.

Amp Hours at 20 Hour Rate
68

My thinking is, that running my Respironics M series/C flex with humidifier off the cigarette lighter plug, using an inverter, will partially discharge the battery each night. The Marine, deep cycle, battery is less likely to be effected by the repeated discharge. Is that correct?

Can anyone tell me how many amps I would be drawing using my unit WITH the heated humidifier?
Thanks

[sleepinginseattle]

Now there is where you can't see the forrest for the trees, you don't use the generator to power the CPAP, you only use it to recharge the battery.

http://www.hondapowerequipment.com/Mode ... me=eu1000i

"Looking" and owning is two different things. I used to own a EU1000i, great "little" generator, it wouldn't power a 900w microwave, I sold it to a buddy at work for $500 bucks and bought 2ea EU2000i's and hooked them together in parallel and now get nearly 4000VA from them in a much smaller 46lb. package compared to . Yamaha E3000SEB's 150lb. weight without gas of which I also owned. I sold it to a guy for $1,200, hellva deal for him I paid $2200 for it.

But my back couldn't take lifting that 150lb sucker into the RV for every trip, much easier carrying two smaller 46 lb. units and firing up both only when needed. With both of them running, I could run the RV Air conditioning while nuking a burrito in the microwave at the same time.

But the larger EU2000i is overkill for this application, the EU1000i would work just fine. Both the EU1000/EU2000i come with a built-in 8AMP 12VDC charger.



8-AMPS will recharge nearly any automotive battery within an hour or two. That is what you use the generator for, to recharge the battery, you don't use it to run the CPAP all night long. While both the EU1000i and the EU2000i are rated quiet enough to run in most National parks, you don't use them that way.

You run the generator 1-2hrs during the daytime to recharge the battery. The little EU1000i will run for nearly 8 hours at 1/4 output which is where it runs recharging the batteries.

You are also wasting your time and money purchasing those expensive batteries, the life span of any battery is about 3-5 years or less, the smaller types even less than that. All you need is a sealed lead-acid battery, those can be found for under $50 bucks nearly anywhere. A sealed lead-acid battery won't leak acid and there is very little if any off gassing.

Also, you are NOT saving a dime purchasing a deep-cycle marine battery either, their life-span is not any longer than a conventional battery. You will NEVER be able to fully drain a battery to that drained state using a CPAP machine, it will cut OFF way before the battery ever reaches that drained state to cause damage to the battery. Should the voltage drop where the CPAP cannot maintain its delivery pressure it will shut off completely.

If it is a Remstar it should give you a low-voltage error code and shut itself off way before that ever happens. Don't believe me? Take a digital volt meter along and when your CPAP shuts off check the battery voltage, I bet it is well above 10-volts.

I also have a 420e, it is not as sensitive to voltage fluctuations as the Remstar, but the Remstar has a much higher in-rush current requirement and if the battery has initial current limitations like many of the cheaper smaller batteries have, it won't even start up. Those batteries have a label on the side indicating "Standby" and "Initial" current ratings. You need one rated at 2.4AMP or higher for the Remstars or they won't even start up.

There are obviously a number of ways to charge a battery. I like your suggestion about using the generator to charge the battery. I hadn't thought of that because I don't think that taking a generator, gas can, and a battery on a camping trip is a good use of the precious space in my car. I've got a family, camping gear, toys, bikes, etc. One battery is enough!

I did my research on batteries. 3-5 years is not typical.

You like cheap batteries. I like well engineered batteries. We have a difference of opinion.

I've fully drained batteries, small motorcycle type batteries, when I first experimented with motorcycle camping solutions. No way I'd try to carry an automotive battery on a motorcycle. The battery was so badly damaged that it had to be replaced shortly after. Automobile starter batteries are not engineered for deep cycle use. They will work, they're cheap, but deep discharges will damage them severely. I prefer a battery type that was designed for the sort of drain my CPAP demands.

Nice logic on the generator though. Skinning horses.

_________________

CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): cpap machine, 420E, CPAP, Power

[sleepinginseattle]

I have been thinking about replacing my Interstate, flooded cell, type 34 battery with one of the new Sears Marine Platinum batteries. This is for my full size Ford van, while camping.

Cold Cranking Amps (CCA at 0 deg.F)
880

Reserve Capacity (RC)
135 min.

Amp Hours at 20 Hour Rate
68

My thinking is, that running my Respironics M series/C flex with humidifier off the cigarette lighter plug, using an inverter, will partially discharge the battery each night. The Marine, deep cycle, battery is less likely to be effected by the repeated discharge. Is that correct?

Can anyone tell me how many amps I would be drawing using my unit WITH the heated humidifier?
Thanks

The van needs CCA (cold cranking amps) or the ability to discharge a lot of power at once to get started. I've never researched deep cycle batteries to be used as starter batteries but you'd be asking a product designed for one application (operating an electric trolling motor, for example) to do a task it wasn't designed to do.

I don't know of any xPAP device that is rated to operate a heated humidifier on DC (12 volt) power. I wouldn't try it unless expressly recommended by the manufacturer. Part of the problem is inverters. The inexpensive ones have a modified sine wave that is incompatible with the humidifier. The pure sine wave inverters are pricey. (Pure sine waves is what your electrical utility is supposed to deliver.)

Good luck.

[Goofproof]

I've got a family, camping gear, toys, bikes, etc. One battery is enough!

There is the answer, use the bike with a small generator as a stationary bike, and make the kid's ride until the battery is recharged. Jim

[sleepinginseattle]

I've got a family, camping gear, toys, bikes, etc. One battery is enough!

There is the answer, use the bike with a small generator as a stationary bike, and make the kid's ride until the battery is recharged. Jim

Gee Jim...he's only six...maybe in a year or two.

Actually, I could use the exercise. LOL

[im_not_snoring!]

I have been thinking about replacing my Interstate, flooded cell, type 34 battery with one of the new Sears Marine Platinum batteries. This is for my full size Ford van, while camping.

Cold Cranking Amps (CCA at 0 deg.F)
880

Reserve Capacity (RC)
135 min.

Amp Hours at 20 Hour Rate
68

My thinking is, that running my Respironics M series/C flex with humidifier off the cigarette lighter plug, using an inverter, will partially discharge the battery each night. The Marine, deep cycle, battery is less likely to be effected by the repeated discharge. Is that correct?

Can anyone tell me how many amps I would be drawing using my unit WITH the heated humidifier?
Thanks

The van needs CCA (cold cranking amps) or the ability to discharge a lot of power at once to get started. I've never researched deep cycle batteries to be used as starter batteries but you'd be asking a product designed for one application (operating an electric trolling motor, for example) to do a task it wasn't designed to do.

I don't know of any xPAP device that is rated to operate a heated humidifier on DC (12 volt) power. I wouldn't try it unless expressly recommended by the manufacturer. Part of the problem is inverters. The inexpensive ones have a modified sine wave that is incompatible with the humidifier. The pure sine wave inverters are pricey. (Pure sine waves is what your electrical utility is supposed to deliver.)

Good luck.

[billbolton]

If you don't need a humidifier and can figure out any method of recharging batteries on a daily (or even every 2nd day) basis, a NiMH battery pack may be a better option than any lead-acid technology. An NiMH pack should give you at least 500 charge/discharge cycles (thats a lot of camping nights) and probably weigh no more than ~4 Kg. (~9lbs).

I have a ~12 Volt 10.8 AH NiMH pack that will run a Resmed S8 for 8 hours at 14cm H2O (even at high altitude) and it weighs in at under 2 KG.

Cheers,

Bill

[flindar]

Wow guys ... thanks for all the help!

I'm wondering how long a marine battery with 115 AH will run my REMstar Plus machine running at 5 CM before it NEEDS a recharge?( no humidifier)

I've already pretty much given up the idea of solar re-charging as I'm in the Pacific Northwest. Even though we're having a great, sunny summer, we all know that around here, that doesn't last!

.. I also like the idea of having my kids do a little 'manual' re-charging with a bike of some sort ...

thanks again

Paul

[sleepinginseattle]

I would make a conservative estimate of 1 amp per hour. If you use a 115 ah battery until 75% depleted, you'll get 86 hours of sleep. That's 10.75 nights of 8 hour sleep.

I'm being conservative of course. You'd probably be able to get 11-12 nights. Of course, everything depends on the battery and the machine. I've got no direct reference for the Remstar Plus, I'm figuring it's like my Remstar Pro but the amp consumption is less because you're at 5 cm and I'm at 11. Pretty much a best guess.

Hope this helps.

Cale

[flindar]

I would make a conservative estimate of 1 amp per hour. If you use a 115 ah battery until 75% depleted, you'll get 86 hours of sleep. That's 10.75 nights of 8 hour sleep.

That would be almost too good to be true.. I need 10 or 11 nights and if I don't have to worry about recharging too much ... it'll save me a lot of headaches ...

thanks

[Goofproof]

Wow guys ... thanks for all the help!

I'm wondering how long a marine battery with 115 AH will run my REMstar Plus machine running at 5 CM before it NEEDS a recharge?( no humidifier)

I've already pretty much given up the idea of solar re-charging as I'm in the Pacific Northwest. Even though we're having a great, sunny summer, we all know that around here, that doesn't last!

.. I also like the idea of having my kids do a little 'manual' re-charging with a bike of some sort ...

thanks again Paul

Just tie a Twinkie to a stick and hold it over the handle bars, don't use a Carrot they won't work. Jim