Dr. suggests sleeping pills to reduce arousals

[phorts]

Ok, I got sort of a long story but i'll spare everyone for the time being. I've recently been back on the quest to try to solve my daytime sleepiness. I've had several sleep studies and have had UPPP and tried CPAP once with no success (couldnt get mask(s) to seal).

So, I've been himming and hawing for months and FINALLY went back for a "once-and-for-all" last time sleep test. If for nothing else, I wanted it for comfirmation that my problem is real.

So, it came back w/ an RDI of 36 and AHI of 12. (Pretty sure those are accurate). He says I don't have OSA as previously diagnosed but it's "more likely" I have UARS. He recommends that I try CPAP again as, regardless of my diagnosis, this is the sure thing solution. (Yes, this is the "spared" version of my long story..lol).

Now, its my understanding that RDI = the amount of arousals (times my brain wakes up) and AHI = the amount of apneas I have. I could be pretty far off but the point of my posting is still valid.

My Doctor thinks that if i try using sleeping pills, that i will "sleep through" most of these events and therefore will be as if they never happened, with the end result being that I feel more refreshed in the morning. The apneas or breating events won't decrease, but my reaction to them will.

I did a little searching on the boards and on the internet and have found no information on this. It sounds silly, but maybe silly enough to work.

Does anyone have any information on this or is my doctor simply trying to entertain my reluctancy to resort to CPAP?

PS - i'm ordering a CPAP machine soon, and will hold onto the sleeping pills as i've heard they can come in handy when starting off on CPAP.

Thanks for all your insight.

Phorts

[Guest]

I was on Vicodin and my neurologist wanted me to take two before my tiration because she said they cause MORE apnea events and she wanted me tirated with the drugs since I would be using the drugs (of some sort) for the rest of my life.

I have read studies where sleeping pills are the same - they cause MORE apnea events. I think it would be very dangerous to use them without CPAP!

[silverde]

Hi. Im new here but have also had my doctor prescribe sleeping pills. "Amitriptylene" actaully. I told him that i had taken sleep aids a couple times before and woke up in the morning feeling like death. However just to see i tried it again this time cutting the little pill in half --to the same results ,i felt terribly worse in the am. Now he prescribed the min dosage of 25mg not very much he assured me. But i dont know maybe im alone on this but when my body is drugged im assuming it wasnt waking up to breath during apnea/hypopnea events! I notice this is also true if i drink heavily! Any way im not sure if this is just me or what, hopefully someone that knows more can let you know. Good luck.

[CarrieS]

For my 2nd sleep test and my titration I took AMbien since my first study I didnt get enough REM sleep. They were very certain that taking the Ambien (sleeping pills) would not effect the results of the study. Also I took Lunesta for about a week before my diagnosis and it did nothing, I felt a bit more mentally alert but the fatigue, lack of motivation, and muscle weakness was still very there - they did nothing for my SLeep Apnea.

[phorts]

It's funny because whenever i try to explain my "sleeping" problem to people they always seem to reach right for the sleeping pill remedy. To which I always say that it's not a problem FALLING asleep, it's a problem I have while i sleep that causes me to stop breathing, having my brain WAKE up, usually without me pysically waking up, making it so that my brain never really gets any rest. I can fall asleep right now if i wanted to....

So, when the Doc mentioned sleeping pills to, in effect, force my brain to stay asleep even during breathing events, my first thought was "how funny i've been telling my friends they're idea is ridiculous".

Ok, so it sounds logical. He said it would not effect my oxygen levels, which because i have UARS and not OSA, is normally OK. My only concern is that even if it DOES work, i'm stuck taking sleeping pills for the rest of my life. But, i'm very skeptical because most people i talk to about sleeping pills experience drowsiness and grogginess the next day. Well, that's what i'm trying to cure! Not insomnia! I too experience MUCH worse symptoms after drinking, and enjoy a glass of wine or two fairly regularly, making this solution even less practical.

Like silverde, i assumed that sleeping pills would be counterproductive and relax my muscles in my airway even further causing more events...but this doc says that's not the case.

I'm looking for any further evidence from anyone who has UARS and has tried this as a solution. Or just general opinions for people who have a lot of experience with UARS...

thanks for any insight...

PS - Carries, the drug prescribed to me was Ambien as well. I have never taking sleeping meds (i've never had a problem going to sleep). Curious, were you diagnosed w/ OSA or UARS? Are you on CPAP now and if so, how is it working for you?

[WearyOne]

Hello!

If you're on CPAP while taking the sleeping pills, I don't really think there should be a problem. If the pills make the apnea worse, the cpap should take care of it, if you have the right pressure or an apap machine. You can also watch your AHI data on your machine in the mornings to make sure it's not too high.

Check this link on Ambien and sleep apnea, especially Central Sleep Apnea. http://www.medpagetoday.com/Psychiatry/APSS/tb/3594

Here's a short quote from the article

"On treatment, the study found:

The average total apnea-hypopnea index—including both central and obstructive events—fell from 30 per hour to 13, a difference that was statistically significant at P<0.001.

Central events fell from 26 per hour to seven a difference that was significant at P<0.001.

At the same time, the total arousal index fell from 24 to 15 per hour—also significant at P<0.001. "

It sure wouldn't hurt to try. I'm on cpap and take Ambien occasionally and do not see any difference in my AHI the morning after.

Pam

[Snoredog]

I suppose this is the same doctor that recommended the UPPP?

If you had problems before the UPPP you will only have more now. Gone is your soft palate so you can probably only now use a Full Face mask as mouth breathing will be a constant problem.

Is that AHI=12 sleeping on your back in the supine position? If so, what was it sleeping on your side? If they didn't test you in those positions, tell your doctor to take a hike and don't waste any more money on sleep tests.

Go over to talkaboutsleep.com and look at dental devices.

[53now]

Started Bipap in November of 2000.....18/14 Way too much for me to handle........ Doctor prescribed Ambien to assist. Ahhhh this was great ...at first. However you must be very careful with Sleeping Pills. Especially Ambien. This little friendly white pill will turn on you ! In some people ..feelings of depression can sneak into the mix.
I won't waste time hear preaching to you about this ......Just do some Googling and search for "Is Ambien Safe?" or "Problems with Ambien"
I'll leave it at that.

Rich

PS Yes RestedGal ... I'm still around

[jskinner]

My Doctor thinks that if i try using sleeping pills, that i will "sleep through" most of these events and therefore will be as if they never happened, with the end result being that I feel more refreshed in the morning.

Wrong.

Taking sleeping pills normally makes sleep disordered breathing worse. Sleeping though an event is the last thing that you want to do, you need to be aroused so that you start breathing properly again. Anything that depresses your respiration or your CNS will only make things worse. It might possiblely make you feel better for a while but in the end its not good for you.

Please post here why you where having trouble with CPAP and I'm certain everyone will help you find solutions. CPAP takes time to learn to tolerate if you only tried it one night you haven't givein it a fair chance.

Note: I'm taking about using sleeping pills without CPAP

[ejdischer]

Amusingly enough, I have gotten my best numbers on nights I use Benadryl for Severe Allergy and Sinus Headache. It's weird because I take it on nights I'm extremely congested nasally and have a bad headache. It knocks me out within 1/2 and hour and sure enough when I wake up my AHI is under 1. So I don't know if the level of my sleep is deeper because of the Benadryl or what, but it works.

On a side note, before I got diagnosed with OSA, I would take pills that said "Will make you drowsy." However, they wouldn't. Now, on CPAP, whenever I take a med with "drowsy" as a side effect, I get drowsy. A great piece of evidence that my therapy works. For years I walked around so tired, that medications that would make normal people tired just made me feel the same as usually. Now, they knock me out. Tremendous.

[wog]

I use and recommend Lunesta... It's gentler than Ambien and can be taken longterm. Here's how it helps me. I have mild OSA. So the CPAP effectively treats that. HOWEVER. I still suffer from arousals due to the machine, mask and headgear itself. It's unnatural and awkward to try and sleep with all this equipment and the noise it makes. Lunesta doesn't actually make me drowsy. What it does do tho is when I fall asleep, it keeps me asleep. Does a brilliant job at that. And I wake up feeling pretty good and rested. I notice a big difference when I don't use Lunesta. It definitely helps me keep the arousals to a minimum.

Just thought I'd throw that out there.

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