Does it make you sad when
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SleepySandy
- Posts: 330
- Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2007 5:25 pm
- Location: Seattle, WA
Does it make you sad when
few read and no one responds to your post?
Sorry Sandy. I did see the post but didn't have an answer for you. I have the F & P 431 and while it is fairly comfortable, I still do get alot of leaks, especially around the eyes. I really can't tell you much about the others at all.
Good luck!
Mary
Good luck!
Mary
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sad
Sometimes it happens that a subject is covered so many times that regular users get Burned out.
This is such a specialized mask and it may be possible that not many have the answer for you.
You may be able to het better answers by doing search.
I would not take it personally, it is better than being attacked that so many seem to enjoy.
tomjax
This is such a specialized mask and it may be possible that not many have the answer for you.
You may be able to het better answers by doing search.
I would not take it personally, it is better than being attacked that so many seem to enjoy.
tomjax
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SleepySandy
- Posts: 330
- Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2007 5:25 pm
- Location: Seattle, WA
I was kind of hoping someone would post about some other full face mask out there with a more solid seal / part that meets your face. I just don't like the kind like the UMFF has.
I guess my only options are the Mojo or FP432.
The Soyala is still in question. I did search a lot and can't figure it out.
I guess my only options are the Mojo or FP432.
The Soyala is still in question. I did search a lot and can't figure it out.
I don't recall seeing the above post, but I may have.
When it comes to Full Face masks your selection is limited (unlike nasal interfaces).
I really had my hopes up for the Soyala Full Face, but even I have not been able to use it but 1 night. The Full Face is down right UNCOMFORTABLE, I tried again the other night, same thing after about 15 minutes off it came. It is extremely quite. I should get out some epoxy and morph the UMFF cushion to it, then it would be the ideal mask.
I wrote to Patrick Karem of Somnotech and told him what a piece of crap I thought it was (trust me, I didn't hold back anything). He replied and said he would forward my comments to Germany design team.
They did an excellent job on the nasal version, then totally hosed the Full Face cushion. I suspect this was WHY it was over a month delayed coming to the USA. Hopefully we are not the only ones and they will redesign another cushion for it (that is my hope for it anyway). They still have the best elbow and exhaust system of any mask out there.
I may write Patrick and ask him about the other cushion available in Germany, I know they make one for higher pressures (up to 40hpa). I have no idea if that one would be any better or not.
Right now, the ONLY Full Face mask I can recommend to you is the Resmed UltraMirage. It is noisy when you compare it to the Soyala nasal mask (kind of spoils you once you use the Soyala for any time).
As mentioned before the only other Full Face masks out there I haven't tried are the Mojo and the F&P 43x series.
I passed on those because of their design, they are missing critical features I found over the years are required to control leaks, the mojo has a "rolled" gel cushion, cpap air can get under that rolled edge of the cushion and push it away like a pry bar from your skin. If there is a thin membrane against the skin making the seal it is much harder for the cpap air pressure to get under the cushion. That is why the mojor has difficulty with leaks.
Then the F&P 43x does not have a forehead support, I use that feature on every mask I have owned, it is used to stop leaks into the eyes or to lessen the pressure across the bridge of the nose, without that feature you have no way to control that. It is also why F&P is coming out with different foam cushions trying to compensate for it.
Then again, they threw the mold away when they made my face so no generic mask is going to work.
What is the vertical dimension from the center of your pupils of the eye to the center of the lower chin (where the indention is) with your mouth closed?
And the horizontal dimension from corner to corner of your mouth (with mouth closed naturally)?
If you are petite, it may be difficult finding any FF mask that will work. Too bad you couldn't take a Large Soyala nasal mask and put on a FF elbow system (they are compatible with each other by the way) and use it as a petite FF.
Sizing is CRITICAL on a Full Face mask, be sure and obtain a template if you can before ordering any Full Face, they are too expensive to get it wrong.
When it comes to Full Face masks your selection is limited (unlike nasal interfaces).
I really had my hopes up for the Soyala Full Face, but even I have not been able to use it but 1 night. The Full Face is down right UNCOMFORTABLE, I tried again the other night, same thing after about 15 minutes off it came. It is extremely quite. I should get out some epoxy and morph the UMFF cushion to it, then it would be the ideal mask.
I wrote to Patrick Karem of Somnotech and told him what a piece of crap I thought it was (trust me, I didn't hold back anything). He replied and said he would forward my comments to Germany design team.
They did an excellent job on the nasal version, then totally hosed the Full Face cushion. I suspect this was WHY it was over a month delayed coming to the USA. Hopefully we are not the only ones and they will redesign another cushion for it (that is my hope for it anyway). They still have the best elbow and exhaust system of any mask out there.
I may write Patrick and ask him about the other cushion available in Germany, I know they make one for higher pressures (up to 40hpa). I have no idea if that one would be any better or not.
Right now, the ONLY Full Face mask I can recommend to you is the Resmed UltraMirage. It is noisy when you compare it to the Soyala nasal mask (kind of spoils you once you use the Soyala for any time).
As mentioned before the only other Full Face masks out there I haven't tried are the Mojo and the F&P 43x series.
I passed on those because of their design, they are missing critical features I found over the years are required to control leaks, the mojo has a "rolled" gel cushion, cpap air can get under that rolled edge of the cushion and push it away like a pry bar from your skin. If there is a thin membrane against the skin making the seal it is much harder for the cpap air pressure to get under the cushion. That is why the mojor has difficulty with leaks.
Then the F&P 43x does not have a forehead support, I use that feature on every mask I have owned, it is used to stop leaks into the eyes or to lessen the pressure across the bridge of the nose, without that feature you have no way to control that. It is also why F&P is coming out with different foam cushions trying to compensate for it.
Then again, they threw the mold away when they made my face so no generic mask is going to work.
What is the vertical dimension from the center of your pupils of the eye to the center of the lower chin (where the indention is) with your mouth closed?
And the horizontal dimension from corner to corner of your mouth (with mouth closed naturally)?
If you are petite, it may be difficult finding any FF mask that will work. Too bad you couldn't take a Large Soyala nasal mask and put on a FF elbow system (they are compatible with each other by the way) and use it as a petite FF.
Sizing is CRITICAL on a Full Face mask, be sure and obtain a template if you can before ordering any Full Face, they are too expensive to get it wrong.
someday science will catch up to what I'm saying...
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SleepySandy
- Posts: 330
- Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2007 5:25 pm
- Location: Seattle, WA
Hi Snoredog,
Thanks for the Soyala input. I had read a lot of your other Soyala FF reviews and figured it won't work for me. I'm still curious - is the Soyala cushion like the UMFF (i.e., the air cushion or whatever-you-call-it)?
I'm glad you wrote the guy at Somnotech and I think it's great he replied. If you're able to get the other cushion I'll be very interested in knowing if it's better than the cushion you currently have. I think it was one of your posts that referenced a "stiff skirt" on the Soyala. I think the ComfortFull has a stiff skirt and I don't like it. Is the Soyala like that?
I struggle with my UMFF and leaks. Rested gal pointed out that my leak rate seems pretty high. I looked at my raw data and I found that most of my events occur when my leak rate is higher. I don't have anything else to do while waiting for my next sleep doc appointment, so I figured I would try to get the leak rate down and see if that makes any difference in how I feel.
I received input from others about adjusting my mask to stop the leaks and prevent the big red dent on my nose. None of the adjustments worked very well. At that time, someone posted about using an adhesive on a mask to seal it to your face. That sounded like a great idea to me. I couldn't find the scuba mask stuff locally, but I did find a water-soluable adhesive that's used to hold up support stockings. Since it's obviously safe to use on skin, I decided to give it a try. Yes, I know it may shorten the life of my cushion. I don't mind if I can obtain a better seal during its lifetime. My bigger concern is the chemicals I'm inhaling - the adhesive has an odor. I won't be using it long-term. My experiment is showing me that my events go down if my leaks go down. That's the info I was looking for.
So, I thought if I could find a mask with a more solid part-that-meets-your-face I could smoosh it more and it wouldn't leak. I really don't like the feel of the mask "floating on your face". It doesn't feel secure to me and makes me kind of tense. But, your post about how air can force the gel roll (jelly roll? mmmmm donuts) away from your face makes me have second thoughts.
All in all the UMFF is okay. I'm looking for great, but I think that's just not going to happen with a full face mask.
After much effort, I'm pretty sure my measurements are: Pupil to chin - 3"; Mouth corner to corner 2"
My UMFF is a small. Some people have recommended trying the shallow cushion. I haven't done that yet.
Thanks for the Soyala input. I had read a lot of your other Soyala FF reviews and figured it won't work for me. I'm still curious - is the Soyala cushion like the UMFF (i.e., the air cushion or whatever-you-call-it)?
I'm glad you wrote the guy at Somnotech and I think it's great he replied. If you're able to get the other cushion I'll be very interested in knowing if it's better than the cushion you currently have. I think it was one of your posts that referenced a "stiff skirt" on the Soyala. I think the ComfortFull has a stiff skirt and I don't like it. Is the Soyala like that?
I struggle with my UMFF and leaks. Rested gal pointed out that my leak rate seems pretty high. I looked at my raw data and I found that most of my events occur when my leak rate is higher. I don't have anything else to do while waiting for my next sleep doc appointment, so I figured I would try to get the leak rate down and see if that makes any difference in how I feel.
I received input from others about adjusting my mask to stop the leaks and prevent the big red dent on my nose. None of the adjustments worked very well. At that time, someone posted about using an adhesive on a mask to seal it to your face. That sounded like a great idea to me. I couldn't find the scuba mask stuff locally, but I did find a water-soluable adhesive that's used to hold up support stockings. Since it's obviously safe to use on skin, I decided to give it a try. Yes, I know it may shorten the life of my cushion. I don't mind if I can obtain a better seal during its lifetime. My bigger concern is the chemicals I'm inhaling - the adhesive has an odor. I won't be using it long-term. My experiment is showing me that my events go down if my leaks go down. That's the info I was looking for.
So, I thought if I could find a mask with a more solid part-that-meets-your-face I could smoosh it more and it wouldn't leak. I really don't like the feel of the mask "floating on your face". It doesn't feel secure to me and makes me kind of tense. But, your post about how air can force the gel roll (jelly roll? mmmmm donuts) away from your face makes me have second thoughts.
All in all the UMFF is okay. I'm looking for great, but I think that's just not going to happen with a full face mask.
After much effort, I'm pretty sure my measurements are: Pupil to chin - 3"; Mouth corner to corner 2"
My UMFF is a small. Some people have recommended trying the shallow cushion. I haven't done that yet.
My FF option is the Hybrid, which has the same type of seal as the UMFF (which I also have). The Hybrid works great for me and I don't have to worry about leaks around the eyes, which I have so much trouble with on the UMFF (and the ComfortFull 2 that I exchanged for the UMFF!). Tried the Mojo (with that gel seal) at the DME and we never could get rid of the leaks ( a lot of them), so that one never even made it home to try!
I really prefer FF masks, but other than the Hybrid, I haven't found one that doesn't leak a lot.
Pam
I really prefer FF masks, but other than the Hybrid, I haven't found one that doesn't leak a lot.
Pam
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SleepySandy
- Posts: 330
- Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2007 5:25 pm
- Location: Seattle, WA
I do wish I could try the Hybrid. The eye leaks and red dent on my nose are the 2 worst issues I have.
Unfortunately, I have extremely narrow nares and the Swift small and CL2 small nasal pillows made my nares hurt like crazy - like they had been stretched for a long time. If the Hybrid pillows are similar in size, which I believe they are, I don't think my nares will be able to handle them.
If the Hybrid had XS pillows, I would seriously consider trying it.
Unfortunately, I have extremely narrow nares and the Swift small and CL2 small nasal pillows made my nares hurt like crazy - like they had been stretched for a long time. If the Hybrid pillows are similar in size, which I believe they are, I don't think my nares will be able to handle them.
If the Hybrid had XS pillows, I would seriously consider trying it.
I just went and measured my Soyala Full Face "Medium". It measures exactly 3" vertical dimension when you measure from center-to-center of the cushion (where it makes contact with your face). Comparing to a UMFF Medium cushion, that same dimension is 3-3/4".SleepySandy wrote:Hi Snoredog,
After much effort, I'm pretty sure my measurements are: Pupil to chin - 3"; Mouth corner to corner 2"
My UMFF is a small. Some people have recommended trying the shallow cushion. I haven't done that yet.
This could be very well why this sucker is so uncomfortable, if my mandible drops any it pulls DOWN on the mask which puts too much pressure at the nose where it starts leaking into the eyes.
I think the Soyala Full Face template is screwed. That is clearly a 3/4" difference between cushions compared to the UMFF in the same size.
The Medium Soyala Full Face cushion measures:
Vertical Dimension (center of pupils of the eyes to center of chin): 3.0"
Horizontal Dimension (center to center of cushion): 2.75"
This means the Medium may be a bit wide for you, but the vertical dimension is perfect. If I were sizing you, I'd give you the Medium (but then again, I got a medium based upon the Soyala template and it is clearly too short).
At this point Sandy, I would contact Somnotech and ask them for the vertical dimension of the Small Full Face cushion. Like I said you don't want to order the wrong size.
I think the vertical dimension is more critical than the horizontal, as mentioned if your mouth drops it pulls down on the cushion, then it can put too much pressure on the nose, you can push it out with the forehead pads but for me it then leaks like a sieve there.
someday science will catch up to what I'm saying...
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sharon1965
- Posts: 1232
- Joined: Thu Jan 18, 2007 4:59 pm
- Location: Windsor, Ontario, Canada
Sandy
Please don't get bummed out over the lack of responses, I just replied to your original post. I myself sometimes are envious of some posts which recieve a lot of hits and are popular. But this forum is not supposed to be a competition for whoever can get the most responses. Seems like the catchier post titles or interesting topics recieve more attention.
Dale
Please don't get bummed out over the lack of responses, I just replied to your original post. I myself sometimes are envious of some posts which recieve a lot of hits and are popular. But this forum is not supposed to be a competition for whoever can get the most responses. Seems like the catchier post titles or interesting topics recieve more attention.
Dale
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I am a newbie here, but I thought I would put in my 2 cents.
I have a full face mask... I have had trouble with leaks around the eyes and rarely, the red mark on the bridge of nose. As I'm sure you know, a lot of it has to do with the fit (your facial shape) and the way you sleep at night. I am a back and side sleeper (never stomach), so I don't have much trouble with the marks (only rarely).
I personally found the cause of my leak problem. At night, I was washing my face and applying my nightly face lotion (which was NOT greasy). But I think once I got to sleep, I would begin to perspire slightly, and the facial lotion would work its way out of my pores and cause the mask to lose "suction". Once I stopped applying anything to my face after washing it, the leaks stopped.
I hope this helps!
Good luck,
Napagirl
I have a full face mask... I have had trouble with leaks around the eyes and rarely, the red mark on the bridge of nose. As I'm sure you know, a lot of it has to do with the fit (your facial shape) and the way you sleep at night. I am a back and side sleeper (never stomach), so I don't have much trouble with the marks (only rarely).
I personally found the cause of my leak problem. At night, I was washing my face and applying my nightly face lotion (which was NOT greasy). But I think once I got to sleep, I would begin to perspire slightly, and the facial lotion would work its way out of my pores and cause the mask to lose "suction". Once I stopped applying anything to my face after washing it, the leaks stopped.
I hope this helps!
Good luck,
Napagirl
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Another FFM to try
I have been using the Hans Rudolph V7600 for about 18 months and I love it.
I tried for a year using the UMFF and I got tired of the leaks and the bridge of my nose getting chewed up.
Some people have complained about the initial cost of the mask but I feel that it is well worth the price in the quality of sleep that I've gotten.
If you do decide to try the HR mask make sure that you use their measuring calipers for correct fit.
I tried for a year using the UMFF and I got tired of the leaks and the bridge of my nose getting chewed up.
Some people have complained about the initial cost of the mask but I feel that it is well worth the price in the quality of sleep that I've gotten.
If you do decide to try the HR mask make sure that you use their measuring calipers for correct fit.